Full Repeal is now on the table

[Momorider]

32 minutes ago, Anler said:

Because before people with pre-existing conditions couldnt get coverage.... Thats why dumb ass...

[Highmark]

Just now, Anler said:

The wife is on a special diet and cant eat alot of ingredients. It is very hard to shop and very expensive. And eating out is nearly impossible. There are so many harmful ingredients in the processed food at the grocery store that you can link almost all common illness to them. Many of them are banned in other countries. Its fucking disgusting. 

Not claiming its not an issue but simply saying its not the savior that some suggest.   I also like the idea of having some skin in the game regarding HC.   If we are ever to go to a NHC system I'd like to see something tied to health (smoking, obesity) and what it costs.   I know it wouldn't be easy but just handing EVERYONE HC isn't the answer to a healthier population either.  

[ActionfigureJoe]

11 minutes ago, Momorider said:

BULLFUCKINGSHIT it's free market you can't buy across state lines  

you silly cunt. margins on healthcare insurance are tight. there isn't enough wiggle room for this so called open market to have any meaningful effect on cost. fuck you're a dumb son of a bitch. 

[ActionfigureJoe]

Just now, Highmark said:

Not claiming its not an issue but simply saying its not the savior that some suggest.   I also like the idea of having some skin in the game regarding HC.   If we are ever to go to a NHC system I'd like to see something tied to health (smoking, obesity) and what it costs.   I know it wouldn't be easy but just handing EVERYONE HC isn't the answer to a healthier population either.  

so we're going to penalize people who make poor diet choices, but we're not going to hold multi trillion dollar food producers responsible for making a choice to serve up garbage? 

[Highmark]

Just now, ActionfigureJoe said:

you silly cunt. margins on healthcare insurance are tight. there isn't enough wiggle room for this so called open market to have any meaningful effect on cost. fuck you're a dumb son of a bitch. 

For the most part yes but giving more options of what people want to be covered for can have some impact as well.   The one size fits all solution in Obamacare isn't working.  

[Edmo]

Just now, Highmark said:

For the most part yes but giving more options of what people want to be covered for can have some impact as well.   The one size fits all solution in Obamacare isn't working.  

Yep. And insurers are bailing in some areas because the population is older and not enough young folks were signing up. This need to be spread out more somehow.

[Highmark]

Just now, ActionfigureJoe said:

so we're going to penalize people who make poor diet choices, but we're not going to hold multi trillion dollar food producers responsible for making a choice to serve up garbage? 

Yep.   In the end people choose healthy lifestyle.   If more people chose healthy eating the more it would force companies into providing those choices.  If the people choose to live unhealthy it should cost them a bit more.   Damn you do you want to eliminate everything that is bad for us?   Do you support another run at prohibition?  

[ActionfigureJoe]

2 minutes ago, Highmark said:

For the most part yes but giving more options of what people want to be covered for can have some impact as well.   The one size fits all solution in Obamacare isn't working.  

there's various plans available under obamacare. it's removal of preexisting conditions that's driving up healthcare costs the most. 

[Momorider]

8 minutes ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

you silly cunt. margins on healthcare insurance are tight. there isn't enough wiggle room for this so called open market to have any meaningful effect on cost. fuck you're a dumb son of a bitch. 

 and  from the stupidest most gullible no mind clown on the site  

[Highmark]

1 minute ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

there's various plans available under obamacare. it's removal of preexisting conditions that's driving up healthcare costs the most. 

Its only a part of it but no question a significant portion.   Under Obamacare there are minimum's insurance plans must cover.   This drives up costs as well.   Especially for young healthy people who only want say catastrophic coverage.  30% according to the CBO.   I know you guys love the CBO.   

http://www.heritage.org/health-care-reform/report/obamacare-increases-health-insurance-premiums

 

1. Mandated Benefits

Obamacare mandates that insurance companies cover a minimum package of benefits. The more comprehensive and generous the insurance, however, the more expensive it will be. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates that the benefit mandates in Obamacare—in combination with the limited cost-sharing—will increase premiums 27–30 percent in the individual market and up to 3 percent in the small group market.[1]

Conservatives have to win the war of ideas on this and every issue—which means changing minds in Congress and among the American people. You can make this happen. Find out more >>

2. No Cost-Sharing for Preventive Services

Preventive services are more likely to increase costs than reduce costs. A recent article in the journal Health Affairs notes that 80 percent of preventative care services increase costs instead of saving costs.[2] By requiring more preventive services, costs will rise as health care consumption increases.

3. Limits on Cost-Sharing (on Covered Items) and Limits on Deductibles

Individuals who do not have co-payments or deductibles lack “skin in the game” and thus have less incentive to economize on their use of health care services. This results in higher premiums for their health insurance. The CBO concludes that a 10 percent decrease in cost-sharing typically increases health care spending by 1–2 percent.[3]

4. Minimized Youth Discount

The average 60-year-old consumes about six times as much health care as the average 20-year-old, but Obamacare mandates that insurers charge the oldest individuals in the risk pool no more than three times the lowest rate. As a result, young individuals will pay much more than the actuarially fair amount for their premiums. Management consulting firm Oliver Wyman estimated that premiums will rise by 45 percent for those age 18–24, 35 percent for those age 25–29, and 26 percent for those age 30–34.[4]

5. Elimination of the Good Health Discount

In order to charge individuals a fair premium, insurers in the individual market engage in underwriting to determine applicant risk. That is, healthy individuals are less of a risk and thus enjoy lower premiums, the same way good drivers get discounts on their auto insurance. Obamacare bans this type of underwriting to rate premiums. The result will be higher premiums for the vast majority of individuals who are relatively healthy.

6. No Annual or Lifetime Limits on Health Benefits and Mandated Coverage of Children Under 26

These provisions are already taking effect, and they raise the cost of providing insurance. Several insurers have attributed a portion of their annual rate hikes for this year to provisions in Obamacare. Regence Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Oregon is attributing 3.4 percent of its 17.1 percent rate increase to Obamacare, while Celtic Insurance Company in Wisconsin and North Carolina is attributing 9 percent of its 18 percent rate increase to Obamacare.[5]

7. No Pre-Existing Conditions Exclusion and Guarantee Issue

Healthy individuals will be incentivized to remain or become uninsured, saving on premium expenditures since they would be able to purchase coverage if they need medical care. A greater concentration of relatively unhealthy individuals in the risk pool will increase average premiums.

According to an analysis by Wellpoint, a health benefits company, the guarantee issue provisions in Obamacare will be mostly responsible for the rise in premiums.[6] Furthermore, a recent academic paper found that the existence of guarantee issue regulations more than doubled premiums for individual policies and nearly doubled premiums for family policies.[7]

8. Cost-Shifting Because of Low Medicare Reimbursement Rates

Obamacare is set to reduce the reimbursements doctors and hospitals receive for Medicare. A 2006 Health Affairs piece finds that a 1 percent relative decrease in the average Medicare price is associated with a 0.17 percent increase in the corresponding price paid by privately insured patients. The study found that cost shifting from Medicare and Medicaid to private payers accounted for 12.3 percent of the total increase in the price of private insurance from 1997 to 2001.[8]

9. Taxes on Insurers, Pharmaceutical Companies, and Medical Device Makers

Obamacare includes many new taxes, including a 2.3 percent excise tax on medical devices and annual fees on health insurance providers. A tax placed on insurance companies or medical device companies will be passed to consumers in the form of higher premiums.

The CBO expects these taxes to be passed on to consumers.[9] Anthem estimated that premiums would rise by 2.5 percent in fully insured markets because of the annual fee on health insurance providers and by 0.5 percent because of the fees on manufacturers and importers of branded drugs and medical devices.[10]

10. Difficulty of Enforcing the Mandate

Proponents of Obamacare argue that the individual mandate is the glue that holds the legislation together. Because the mandate was so unpopular, however, Congress gave the IRS limited ability to enforce it. It is unlikely, therefore, that the mandate will be effective at encouraging healthy individuals to purchase coverage and cross-subsidize the premiums for the old and the sick.

According to Oliver Wyman, a weak mandate would cause “the average medical claims of members in the reformed individual market [to] be 50 percent higher than the average in the market today (not including medical inflation). This would translate into premium increases of approximately $1,500 for single coverage and $3,300 for family coverage in today’s dollars.”[11]

11. Adverse Selection

Since heath plans will be required to extend coverage to any qualified applicant and will not be allowed to vary premiums based on health status, healthier individuals will likely wait until they are sick before they buy health insurance. With fewer healthy individuals buying coverage, premiums will need to rise to cover the costs of the sick, which will in turn drive even more individuals in good or even fair health to drop coverage. The result could be a classic insurance adverse selection “death spiral” and an implosion of Obamacare.

12. Increased Demand for Health Care

The expansion of insurance coverage through Obamacare will increase the amount of health care that previously uninsured people demand. CBO predicts that a major coverage expansion would cause total demand for health care services to increase by 2–5 percent.[12] Oliver Wyman estimates that the average uninsured will use about 20 percent more in health care services than the average individual, which will raise premiums in the individual market.[13]

  

Edited July 18, 2017 by Highmark

[ActionfigureJoe]

Just now, Highmark said:

Yep.   In the end people choose healthy lifestyle.   If more people chose healthy eating the more it would force companies into providing those choices.  If the people choose to live unhealthy it should cost them a bit more.   Damn you do you want to eliminate everything that is bad for us?   Do you support another run at prohibition?  

oh give me a fucking break. here we go with the all or nothing argument. it's useless to even have a discussion with you. when the scientific evidence supports that the consumption of a particular food is dangerous, we do nothing because it means prohibition? good fucking god. 

this is where i will never agree with the republican agenda. they want to fuck the little guy for making a lousey choice, but allow the multi trillion dollar conglomerates to do what they want with little accountability. it's fucking insane. 

[ActionfigureJoe]

4 minutes ago, Momorider said:

 and  from the stupidest most gullible no mind clown on the site  

you fucking shit eater. 

[ActionfigureJoe]

4 minutes ago, Highmark said:

Its only a part of it but no question a significant portion.   Under Obamacare there are minimum's insurance plans must cover.   This drives up costs as well.   Especially for young healthy people who only want say catastrophic coverage.  30% according to the CBO.   I know you guys love the CBO.   

http://www.heritage.org/health-care-reform/report/obamacare-increases-health-insurance-premiums

 

1. Mandated Benefits

Obamacare mandates that insurance companies cover a minimum package of benefits. The more comprehensive and generous the insurance, however, the more expensive it will be. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates that the benefit mandates in Obamacare—in combination with the limited cost-sharing—will increase premiums 27–30 percent in the individual market and up to 3 percent in the small group market.[1]

Conservatives have to win the war of ideas on this and every issue—which means changing minds in Congress and among the American people. You can make this happen. Find out more >>

2. No Cost-Sharing for Preventive Services

Preventive services are more likely to increase costs than reduce costs. A recent article in the journal Health Affairs notes that 80 percent of preventative care services increase costs instead of saving costs.[2] By requiring more preventive services, costs will rise as health care consumption increases.

3. Limits on Cost-Sharing (on Covered Items) and Limits on Deductibles

Individuals who do not have co-payments or deductibles lack “skin in the game” and thus have less incentive to economize on their use of health care services. This results in higher premiums for their health insurance. The CBO concludes that a 10 percent decrease in cost-sharing typically increases health care spending by 1–2 percent.[3]

4. Minimized Youth Discount

The average 60-year-old consumes about six times as much health care as the average 20-year-old, but Obamacare mandates that insurers charge the oldest individuals in the risk pool no more than three times the lowest rate. As a result, young individuals will pay much more than the actuarially fair amount for their premiums. Management consulting firm Oliver Wyman estimated that premiums will rise by 45 percent for those age 18–24, 35 percent for those age 25–29, and 26 percent for those age 30–34.[4]

5. Elimination of the Good Health Discount

In order to charge individuals a fair premium, insurers in the individual market engage in underwriting to determine applicant risk. That is, healthy individuals are less of a risk and thus enjoy lower premiums, the same way good drivers get discounts on their auto insurance. Obamacare bans this type of underwriting to rate premiums. The result will be higher premiums for the vast majority of individuals who are relatively healthy.

6. No Annual or Lifetime Limits on Health Benefits and Mandated Coverage of Children Under 26

These provisions are already taking effect, and they raise the cost of providing insurance. Several insurers have attributed a portion of their annual rate hikes for this year to provisions in Obamacare. Regence Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Oregon is attributing 3.4 percent of its 17.1 percent rate increase to Obamacare, while Celtic Insurance Company in Wisconsin and North Carolina is attributing 9 percent of its 18 percent rate increase to Obamacare.[5]

7. No Pre-Existing Conditions Exclusion and Guarantee Issue

Healthy individuals will be incentivized to remain or become uninsured, saving on premium expenditures since they would be able to purchase coverage if they need medical care. A greater concentration of relatively unhealthy individuals in the risk pool will increase average premiums.

According to an analysis by Wellpoint, a health benefits company, the guarantee issue provisions in Obamacare will be mostly responsible for the rise in premiums.[6] Furthermore, a recent academic paper found that the existence of guarantee issue regulations more than doubled premiums for individual policies and nearly doubled premiums for family policies.[7]

8. Cost-Shifting Because of Low Medicare Reimbursement Rates

Obamacare is set to reduce the reimbursements doctors and hospitals receive for Medicare. A 2006 Health Affairs piece finds that a 1 percent relative decrease in the average Medicare price is associated with a 0.17 percent increase in the corresponding price paid by privately insured patients. The study found that cost shifting from Medicare and Medicaid to private payers accounted for 12.3 percent of the total increase in the price of private insurance from 1997 to 2001.[8]

9. Taxes on Insurers, Pharmaceutical Companies, and Medical Device Makers

Obamacare includes many new taxes, including a 2.3 percent excise tax on medical devices and annual fees on health insurance providers. A tax placed on insurance companies or medical device companies will be passed to consumers in the form of higher premiums.

The CBO expects these taxes to be passed on to consumers.[9] Anthem estimated that premiums would rise by 2.5 percent in fully insured markets because of the annual fee on health insurance providers and by 0.5 percent because of the fees on manufacturers and importers of branded drugs and medical devices.[10]

10. Difficulty of Enforcing the Mandate

Proponents of Obamacare argue that the individual mandate is the glue that holds the legislation together. Because the mandate was so unpopular, however, Congress gave the IRS limited ability to enforce it. It is unlikely, therefore, that the mandate will be effective at encouraging healthy individuals to purchase coverage and cross-subsidize the premiums for the old and the sick.

According to Oliver Wyman, a weak mandate would cause “the average medical claims of members in the reformed individual market [to] be 50 percent higher than the average in the market today (not including medical inflation). This would translate into premium increases of approximately $1,500 for single coverage and $3,300 for family coverage in today’s dollars.”[11]

11. Adverse Selection

Since heath plans will be required to extend coverage to any qualified applicant and will not be allowed to vary premiums based on health status, healthier individuals will likely wait until they are sick before they buy health insurance. With fewer healthy individuals buying coverage, premiums will need to rise to cover the costs of the sick, which will in turn drive even more individuals in good or even fair health to drop coverage. The result could be a classic insurance adverse selection “death spiral” and an implosion of Obamacare.

12. Increased Demand for Health Care

The expansion of insurance coverage through Obamacare will increase the amount of health care that previously uninsured people demand. CBO predicts that a major coverage expansion would cause total demand for health care services to increase by 2–5 percent.[12] Oliver Wyman estimates that the average uninsured will use about 20 percent more in health care services than the average individual, which will raise premiums in the individual market.[13]

  

so what?

[Momorider]

1 minute ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

oh give me a fucking break. here we go with the all or nothing argument. it's useless to even have a discussion with you. when the scientific evidence supports that the consumption of a particular food is dangerous, we do nothing because it means prohibition? good fucking god. 

this is where i will never agree with the republican agenda. they want to fuck the little guy for making a lousey choice, but allow the multi trillion dollar conglomerates to do what they want with little accountability. it's fucking insane. 

Look at the communist FUCK who thinks the Man can make a better choice than you can, let the government control every aspect of your life. Like there was ever a question what a festering pile of monkey excrement you are  just completely  

[Highmark]

2 minutes ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

oh give me a fucking break. here we go with the all or nothing argument. it's useless to even have a discussion with you. when the scientific evidence supports that the consumption of a particular food is dangerous, we do nothing because it means prohibition? good fucking god. 

this is where i will never agree with the republican agenda. they want to fuck the little guy for making a lousey choice, but allow the multi trillion dollar conglomerates to do what they want with little accountability. it's fucking insane. 

   Fuck the little guy.   Why is you on the left think so poorly of the little guy that they are not responsible for smart decisions on their own?   

Do you eat healthy?   Is that your choice or the govt's?

Edited July 18, 2017 by Highmark

[ActionfigureJoe]

2 minutes ago, Momorider said:

Look at the communist FUCK who thinks the Man can make a better choice than you can, let the government control every aspect of your life. Like there was ever a question what a festering pile of monkey excrement you are  just completely  

admit what we all know that you drink diarrhea with a fat, malt straw. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by ActionfigureJoe

[Momorider]

2 minutes ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

so what?

You're a fucking mental case that's so what  

[ActionfigureJoe]

1 minute ago, Highmark said:

   Fuck the little guy.   Why is you on the left think so poorly of the little guy that they are not responsible for smart decisions on their own?   

Do you eat healthy?   Is that your choice or the govt's?

no accountability for corporate america. it's the republican way. 

[Momorider]

Just now, ActionfigureJoe said:

admit what we all know. you drink diarrhea with a fat, malt straw. 

Dumbest fucking imbicile to post on the site, Bipolar insane and 100% 100% of the time about everything for over two years faggot 

[Highmark]

27 minutes ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

no accountability for corporate america. it's the republican way. 

No accountability for the individual is the democrap way.   So answer the question do you eat healthy or do you fall under the trap of the "multi trillion dollar conglomerates?"  

Nobody is saying more smart regulation in our food isn't needed or acceptable but to think a little personal responsibility for our own health (or life for that matter) is unreasonable is why you can't have this discussion with democraps.  Nobody wants to point the finger in any way shape or form at the voter and that's a problem in our country.  

Edited July 18, 2017 by Highmark

[Mileage Psycho]

2 hours ago, XCR1250 said:

Wife works at Walmart in Hayward, she has insurance there but it's rather lacking, she just coughed up $3,000 towards her bill and that was merely a few tests and her Doctors customary charges, she stills owes lots more.

I was going to post what AFJ did.

2 hours ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

no one is addressing the real issue. COST of HEALTHCARE. it's the fucking white elephant. 

 

2 hours ago, Highmark said:

No one will because it means rationing and or limiting the pay to doctors, nurses, administrators, lab tech you name it.   Around 13 million voters and growing.  Who wants to be the party of limiting what doctors and nurses can make and telling grandma she can't get her new hip.   Good luck with that in America.   The other side will eat you alive with ads alone.  

No one will because of the money the political donations that both sides get from the healthcare industry.

I just got a script for a spray foam to treat a rash, $808.00 for 100 grams., my co-pay was $100.00.

[Mileage Psycho]

1 hour ago, Momorider said:

BULLFUCKINGSHIT it's free market you can't buy across state lines  

Hey asshole, full repeal isn't going to happen.

Another thing asshole, any true conservative wants healthcare to be a state only thing, and FTR asshole I have many choices for HC insurance.

[Sleepr2]

44 minutes ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

no accountability for corporate america. it's the republican way. 

Foood  should be regulated by a government agency,, like the ones in Detroit that handle water quality 

[XCR1250]

5 minutes ago, Mileage Psycho said:

I was going to post what AFJ did.

 

No one will because of the money the political donations that both sides get from the healthcare industry.

I just got a script for a spray foam to treat a rash, $808.00 for 100 grams., my co-pay was $100.00.

Holy Crap!

[Skidooski]

4 minutes ago, Sleepr2 said:

Foood  should be regulated by a government agency,, like the ones in Detroit that handle water quality 

Detroit water is ok...Flint water is fucked