hayward Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 9 minutes ago, X2700 said: Far as dairy farms. what happened is these dairy farms kept getting pushed by banks to keep getting bigger to become more profitable!!they pushed the small dairy farmers out because they couldn’t compete!!these big dairy setups were going broke and banks just pushed to get bigger now that is all that’s left!! You're right, and it took cheap labor to do it profitably. So in a nutshell, migrant labor put small farmers out of business, taking their jobs. Not because they were 'lazy,fat, and entitled Americans'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 (edited) 14 minutes ago, hayward said: And one of the leading factors of going big is cheap hard-working labor. That's my whole point. Your original comment above was "who's jobs these illegals are going to take?" In a round about way, no one can deny they played a role in what I just said, thanks to our govt's. policy in the past and present on migrant labor. Take that labor away tomorrow and how long would that farm in your county survive? Now if you can find a caucasion to take their place (and you won't), and pay them what they need to make to live semi-comfortably in this country right now, would the farm survive? I might be wrong, but I'm betting it wouldn't. 11 minutes ago, hayward said: You're right, and it took cheap labor to do it profitably. So in a nutshell, migrant labor put small farmers out of business, taking their jobs. Not because they were 'lazy,fat, and entitled Americans'. no bud... America's youth starting in the 1980's was taught and conditioned that working with your hands and brains was a lost cause and at that point with computers and technology, etc. you'd be a fool to do any of those hard working, low paying 'dirty jobs'. I saw it first hand, have plenty of friends who grew up on dairy farms big and small... none of them wanted anything to do with it. we as a society are fat, lazy and entitled... we're also not willing to not even work that hard for $20 an hour as high school kids at a fast food restaurant or grocery store. surely you must see this where you reside as well. idk if you've tried hiring anyone in the last 5-10 years but holy fuck... it's horrible. c'mon out for a visit, you can bring the 08 for me and I'll take your on a dairy farm tour via snowmocheen. you'd be blown away seeing the size of a few of them. I can get you in this one... 3,000 cows https://vandergeestdairy.com/ Edited April 2 by Crnr2Crnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayward Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 9 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said: no bud... America's youth starting in the 1980's was taught and conditioned that working with your hands and brains was a lost cause and at that point with computers and technology, etc. you'd be a fool to do any of those hard working, low paying 'dirty jobs'. I saw it first hand, have plenty of friends who grew up on dairy farms big and small... none of them wanted anything to do with it. we as a society are fat, lazy and entitled... we're also not willing to not even work that hard for $20 an hour as high school kids at a fast food restaurant or grocery store. surely you must see this where you reside as well. idk if you've tried hiring anyone in the last 5-10 years but holy fuck... it's horrible. c'mon out for a visit, you can bring the 08 for me and I'll take your on a dairy farm tour via snowmocheen. you'd be blown away seeing the size of a few of them. I can get you in this one... 3,000 cows https://vandergeestdairy.com/ We have that problem right here at home. Gave a kid a job 3 years ago, now the "kid" is 23 years old. Stands around with his thumb in his pockets until someone tells him exactly what to do, and it better not be too strenuous. Don't know what to do with him, he'll never fucking change. His dad and mom raised him like a fucking baby, but by now he ought to realize he's not one. I didn't think it went all the way back to the 80's, but I remember it in the early 90's. I worked probably 55-60hrs./week for $5/hr. stacking wagons behind the baler and in the barn, pulling weeds, bagging feed, whatever I was told to do. My close friends were the same, worked on a fruit and vegetable farm. They busted their fucking asses. But for the most part, most of the rest of my some 230ish classmates sat around playing Nintendo games and swimming all summer. Fuck me i'd had went nuts not being outside and seeing how things worked and were done. At times a rainy afternoon was nice to get a brake, but a couple straight days shitty weather and i'd start bouncing off the walls to get back out at it. It was fun. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sled_Hed Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 24 minutes ago, hayward said: We have that problem right here at home. Gave a kid a job 3 years ago, now the "kid" is 23 years old. Stands around with his thumb in his pockets until someone tells him exactly what to do, and it better not be too strenuous. Don't know what to do with him, he'll never fucking change. His dad and mom raised him like a fucking baby, but by now he ought to realize he's not one. I didn't think it went all the way back to the 80's, but I remember it in the early 90's. I worked probably 55-60hrs./week for $5/hr. stacking wagons behind the baler and in the barn, pulling weeds, bagging feed, whatever I was told to do. My close friends were the same, worked on a fruit and vegetable farm. They busted their fucking asses. But for the most part, most of the rest of my some 230ish classmates sat around playing Nintendo games and swimming all summer. Fuck me i'd had went nuts not being outside and seeing how things worked and were done. At times a rainy afternoon was nice to get a brake, but a couple straight days shitty weather and i'd start bouncing off the walls to get back out at it. It was fun. My friends group sounds pretty much like yourself. I didn't grow up on a farm but most friends did. I started helping with square bales when I was old enough to bike over there. Still have the farm bug since I spend plenty of my spare time doing farm work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 On 4/2/2024 at 5:35 PM, hayward said: why would a little family farm want to hire illegals if they want to just be able to do it themselves and survive? If it's not profitable because the economy is designed to produce more cheaper, and the main thing cheaper is the labor situation which requires the needs to utilize illegals or green-card temp. migrants, how is that a fair business structure in America? You stated it yourself. If there is cheap labor you can do more and make more. Just resource limited then. We had 4 dairy farms in my direct family. Down to 1. The other three all quit because they couldn't hire cheap enough labor to help. The big dairies aren't hiring illegals. They can't. They get audited all the time. For things like picking rocks and such that are a few days/weeks it is a different story but when you need to milk 2* a day every day you can't afford employees that may not be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 Translation. If there was cheap available legal labor there are 3 farms right there that would still be family dairies. All of them now are just beef as it takes less labor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 7 minutes ago, Deephaven said: Translation. If there was cheap available legal labor there are 3 farms right there that would still be family dairies. All of them now are just beef as it takes less labor. Only masochists want to run a dairy! Neal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayward Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 3 hours ago, Deephaven said: Translation. If there was cheap available legal labor there are 3 farms right there that would still be family dairies. All of them now are just beef as it takes less labor. I hear ya. So if there's a chance all these illegals are given amnesty, and citizenship, they'll most likely be the cheapest source of labor available, and what you're saying is, they still won't work cheap enough for these other 3 dairy farms to survive? Is temporary migrant labor available cheaper then mandatory minimum wage for u.s. citizens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member Stephen Hawking Posted April 4 Gold Member Share Posted April 4 3 hours ago, NaturallyAspirated said: Only masochists want to run a dairy! Neal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 1 hour ago, hayward said: I hear ya. So if there's a chance all these illegals are given amnesty, and citizenship, they'll most likely be the cheapest source of labor available, and what you're saying is, they still won't work cheap enough for these other 3 dairy farms to survive? Is temporary migrant labor available cheaper then mandatory minimum wage for u.s. citizens? Minimum wage? To pull tits on a dairy people won't even show up T $20/hr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayward Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 6 hours ago, Deephaven said: Minimum wage? To pull tits on a dairy people won't even show up T $20/hr So what are these migrant's hourly wage then? I seriously don't know? I know most farms have housing for them, and that's surely part of their pay, so is it mostly salary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 My family won't hire illegals so not sure but can tell you white kids a legal aliens want well over $20... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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