Studding tracks low profile nut vs tall

[Doug]

Been working on a number of sleds lately most of them studded.  Been noticing with the taller lug tracks some guys using regular low profile nuts others using tall nuts.  A number of manufacturers recommend tall nuts with studs longer than 1 375.

The sleds with taller nuts having studs that have pulled through and the low profile nuts may have some studs bent but none pulled through.

If the intent was "Traction"  taller nuts will give the benefit.  On the opposite side trail riding would rather have the stud give a little or bend rather than pull out.

I've always used the low profile nuts with 1.50 studs and occasionally had some bend.  Knock on wood have not had any studs pull through. 

[Bontz]

15 hours ago, Doug said:

Been working on a number of sleds lately most of them studded.  Been noticing with the taller lug tracks some guys using regular low profile nuts others using tall nuts.  A number of manufacturers recommend tall nuts with studs longer than 1 375.

The sleds with taller nuts having studs that have pulled through and the low profile nuts may have some studs bent but none pulled through.

If the intent was "Traction"  taller nuts will give the benefit.  On the opposite side trail riding would rather have the stud give a little or bend rather than pull out.

I've always used the low profile nuts with 1.50 studs and occasionally had some bend.  Knock on wood have not had any studs pull through. 

One difference maker that I've found over the past several years is the type of backer that's used.  For example, when I was using plastic backers I would use Fast-Trac brand and their "Air Lite" style backers that had a built in collar, or "boss", on the backer.  With that, and the added support it provides, the standard low profile nuts worked just fine.  But if I had used a more standard style backer, I would have gone with the tall nuts that are recommended.  Now, I'm using the Performance Stud Stars backers, which are a bit spendy but they're awesome - no need for nuts as they screw right onto the stud.

[Doug]

3 hours ago, Bontz said:

One difference maker that I've found over the past several years is the type of backer that's used.  For example, when I was using plastic backers I would use Fast-Trac brand and their "Air Lite" style backers that had a built in collar, or "boss", on the backer.  With that, and the added support it provides, the standard low profile nuts worked just fine.  But if I had used a more standard style backer, I would have gone with the tall nuts that are recommended.  Now, I'm using the Performance Stud Stars backers, which are a bit spendy but they're awesome - no need for nuts as they screw right onto the stud.

I've been using Fasttrac for years but use the SP (single ply) backers because they are a slightly larger dia.  

With the tall nuts there's no give and that seems to contribute to the studs pulling out.  With shorter nut the stud seems to bend before riping out the stud.

[jonlafon1]

4 hours ago, Bontz said:

Stud Stars backers, which are a bit spendy but they're awesome - no need for nuts as they screw right onto the stud.

Ran a bunch last year and running them this year in my Winder.. Pricey but love them

[favoritos]

Are the shorter nuts steel?

I retorque the studs on mine each season.  The aluminum tall nuts do seem to need more turns on the first round of checking.  I'm not sure why.  They seem pretty good after that first check.  I also replace any backers and studs that look really whacked.  Once and awhile I'll find studs bent enough that they need the ol grinder cutoff which is surprisingly efficient.

One thing I'll say about the practice of checking and retorquing.  I don't think I've lost any since I started doing that process.  Buddies still lose studs every so often and they run the same brand and style.

[Turbo Kitty]

On 12/7/2023 at 3:24 PM, Bontz said:

One difference maker that I've found over the past several years is the type of backer that's used.  For example, when I was using plastic backers I would use Fast-Trac brand and their "Air Lite" style backers that had a built in collar, or "boss", on the backer.  With that, and the added support it provides, the standard low profile nuts worked just fine.  But if I had used a more standard style backer, I would have gone with the tall nuts that are recommended.  Now, I'm using the Performance Stud Stars backers, which are a bit spendy but they're awesome - no need for nuts as they screw right onto the stud.

I’m doing the star studs on one of my riots, did you use loctite on yours?

[Bontz]

8 minutes ago, Turbo Kitty said:

I’m doing the star studs on one of my riots, did you use loctite on yours?

I did, yup. 

[jonlafon1]

16 minutes ago, Turbo Kitty said:

I’m doing the star studs on one of my riots, did you use loctite on yours?

YES!  I had issues with these without locker.. Now don't let this steer you wrong..

This was on 300 HP tune with chisels bare ice.. > no locker

Edited December 13, 2023 by jonlafon1

[Turbo Kitty]

Ty guys for the info, red or blue?

[Bontz]

3 minutes ago, Turbo Kitty said:

Ty guys for the info, red or blue?

It's actually a good question, regarding the use of loctite.  When I first used these backers, it was on my '18 Assault and I asked Performance Stud Stars about it.  The response they provided was, the backer will actually lock in place on the initial install ... but if you ever remove a backer, it won't lock in place again.  They went on to say the use of loctite is perfectly fine, so I just went that route on my Assault and have used it on my subsequent sleds with these backers.  I use red loctite, FWIW

[jonlafon1]

RED  all day every stud I install. Well accept my first try on the stars!. I know some go back and retorque studs.. I never do this and always used plenty of red.. Lost one stud when I used RED  guessing over 80K miles...  I tend to torque mine down real tight(suck track in) on first install and leave them alone with lots of red. Just the way I do things, i know plenty re torque and I understand that thought also.. I guess I'm more of a over torque on install and use red locker.. If you retorque you break the locker.  MY 3 cents

Edited December 13, 2023 by jonlafon1

[Bontz]

1 minute ago, jonlafon1 said:

RED  all day every stud I install.. I know some go back and retorque studs.. I never do this and always used plenty of red.. Lost one stud when I used RED  guessing over 80K miles...  I tend to torque mine down real tight(suck track in) on first install and leave them alone with lots of red. Just the way I do things, i know plenty re torque and I understand that thought also.. I guess I'm more of a over torque on install and use red locker.. If you retorque you break the locker.  MY 3 cents

100% the same way

[jonlafon1]

Just now, Bontz said:

100% the same way

Yea I brain farted the first try on the stars and went no locker.. Funny thing is it was the first time I ever did this..  

[Turbo Kitty]

You guys squirt soapy water on?

[Bontz]

6 minutes ago, Turbo Kitty said:

You guys squirt soapy water on?

Yes ... be sure to do that.  I can't prove it, but I'm pretty sure the one stud/backer that I had come through on my Assault was due to me not using soapy water and it possibly cut the track when I was torquing it down.  That was the only time I ever had an issue, and to this day I think it was because I forgot to use the recommended soapy water.

[Not greg b]

In my shitty opinion the internet has screwed up proper studding with 1990s amount of studs and big tall nuts. I made the mistake of doing the internet thing in my 2014 800rr and had a track failure because there wasn’t enough of them. All of them were bent or pulled out including double backers. Did a 168 on my next one and had no issue. That was the only sled I had an issue with. I think the stud companies put a low recommended amount so they can still sell a lot of studs. You are looking close to a 800 bucks to stud a 800 now. And you are better off going with normal nuts as the the stud will bend vs ripping out of the track 

[jonlafon1]

15 hours ago, Turbo Kitty said:

You guys squirt soapy water on?

Yes allows the backer to freely slide /spin on the rubber track

 

7 hours ago, Not greg b said:

In my shitty opinion the internet has screwed up proper studding with 1990s amount of studs and big tall nuts. I made the mistake of doing the internet thing in my 2014 800rr and had a track failure because there wasn’t enough of them. All of them were bent or pulled out including double backers. Did a 168 on my next one and had no issue. That was the only sled I had an issue with. I think the stud companies put a low recommended amount so they can still sell a lot of studs. You are looking close to a 800 bucks to stud a 800 now. And you are better off going with normal nuts as the the stud will bend vs ripping out of the track 

I like the saying "strength in numbers" .. Especially if your going aggressive on the length of stud. 

[Not greg b]

On 12/14/2023 at 7:17 AM, jonlafon1 said:

Yes allows the backer to freely slide /spin on the rubber track

 

I like the saying "strength in numbers" .. Especially if your going aggressive on the length of stud. 

I ran 135 1.450 woody’s  in 1.25 rip saw on a 800. It didn’t work out well. My 100hp 1999 zr 600 I ran 144. I should have used my better judgement but didn’t. I am going to run 135 in my catalyst and it should be enough. 

[DriftBusta]

On 12/13/2023 at 12:23 PM, jonlafon1 said:

RED  all day every stud I install. Well accept my first try on the stars!. I know some go back and retorque studs.. I never do this and always used plenty of red.. Lost one stud when I used RED  guessing over 80K miles...  I tend to torque mine down real tight(suck track in) on first install and leave them alone with lots of red. Just the way I do things, i know plenty re torque and I understand that thought also.. I guess I'm more of a over torque on install and use red locker.. If you retorque you break the locker.  MY 3 cents

Only time you might regret that is if that track blows and you want to save the studs for future use.  They can be a mfer to get back off.  Torque them tight enough to suck into the track so the backer isn't sticking out much past the track profile.  They can be noisy as hell otherwise.  And re torque after a couple hundred miles if any of them possibly loosened up.

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by DriftBusta

[jonlafon1]

18 hours ago, Not greg b said:

I ran 135 1.450 woody’s  in 1.25 rip saw on a 800. It didn’t work out well. My 100hp 1999 zr 600 I ran 144. I should have used my better judgement but didn’t. I am going to run 135 in my catalyst and it should be enough. 

Im going 128 or 144 in the catalyst. Still on the fence a little. 

 

Roetin INS Hornet Studs - 1.52