p51mstg Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Steve753 said: Not at all. If I was, I'd carry. See how that works? Those who carry legally aren't the people you need to worry about. In fact, I would venture to say that those who carry a firearm illegally aren't even the ones you need to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, p51mstg said: ALL kids should learn gun safety from a certified firearms instructor IN SCHOOL. Sorry I totally disagree. That is something that is up to the parents and whether or not they want their kids handling firearms. School is the LAST place kids should be learning gun safety, they are there to learn other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bontz Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, Steve753 said: Not at all. If I was, I'd carry. See how that works? Yeah, I see how it works. Calling people who carry, scared ... and you're not because you don't carry, is some sort of badge of honor for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Steve753 Posted June 23, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted June 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, Bontz said: Yeah, I see how it works. Calling people who carry, scared ... and you're not because you don't carry, is some sort of badge of honor for you. See it how you want. I'm sorry I offended you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bontz Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Just now, Steve753 said: See it how you want. I'm sorry I offended you. You really need to step off the Dr. Phil diagnosis box .... you haven't offended me in the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Steve753 Posted June 23, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Bontz said: You really need to step off the Dr. Phil diagnosis box .... you haven't offended me in the least. So let me get this straight. I'm Dr. Phil because my opinion differs from yours? Who are you? Dr.Oz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, Bontz said: You really need to step off the Dr. Phil diagnosis box .... you haven't offended me in the least. What handgun in your collection is your favourite? Your "go to" ? What about hunting rifle? Or perhaps you don't own any firearms at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p51mstg Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, HSR said: Sorry I totally disagree. That is something that is up to the parents and whether or not they want their kids handling firearms. School is the LAST place kids should be learning gun safety, they are there to learn other things. I rarely say anything that anyone would disagree with and I purposefully picked this topic this time. I'm going to take the complete opposite stand, just this once. The reason why Schools MUST teach firearms safety, taught by an accredited and certified firearms instructor isn't for the kids who have guns in the home, it's for the kids who don't. Any school that feels it's okay for teachers to condition kids with their own beliefs or opinions has no excuse not to teach firearm safety, and do so without the parent's consent. Parents of kids in public schools have been beaten into submission about sex ed and a ton of stuff that should be up to the parents. It's all done in the interest of the public good. Firearm safety fits in that category, and then some. Everyone screams about accidental injury and death from discharges - it's in the statistics spouted every time someone cries about need more gun control of some kind. Yet, they fail to see that the answer isn't control but rather education. If they taught the kids to respect firearms, what to do if they find one, what to do if their friend shows them one, what to do if someone points a gun at them, even during play, there'd be fewer deaths - far fewer than providing a lock for every single firearm (which is what the industries answer is to the problem). No, if the gun controllers truly wanted to solve gun deaths, they'd start with EDUCATION. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Steve753 Posted June 23, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, p51mstg said: I rarely say anything that anyone would disagree with and I purposefully picked this topic this time. I'm going to take the complete opposite stand, just this once. The reason why Schools MUST teach firearms safety, taught by an accredited and certified firearms instructor isn't for the kids who have guns in the home, it's for the kids who don't. Any school that feels it's okay for teachers to condition kids with their own beliefs or opinions has no excuse not to teach firearm safety, and do so without the parent's consent. Parents of kids in public schools have been beaten into submission about sex ed and a ton of stuff that should be up to the parents. It's all done in the interest of the public good. Firearm safety fits in that category, and then some. Everyone screams about accidental injury and death from discharges - it's in the statistics spouted every time someone cries about need more gun control of some kind. Yet, they fail to see that the answer isn't control but rather education. If they taught the kids to respect firearms, what to do if they find one, what to do if their friend shows them one, what to do if someone points a gun at them, even during play, there'd be fewer deaths - far fewer than providing a lock for every single firearm (which is what the industries answer is to the problem). No, if the gun controllers truly wanted to solve gun deaths, they'd start with EDUCATION. Well if the gun wasn't there in the first place there wouldn’t be any accidental discharges now would there. Edited June 23, 2023 by Steve753 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, p51mstg said: I rarely say anything that anyone would disagree with and I purposefully picked this topic this time. I'm going to take the complete opposite stand, just this once. The reason why Schools MUST teach firearms safety, taught by an accredited and certified firearms instructor isn't for the kids who have guns in the home, it's for the kids who don't. Any school that feels it's okay for teachers to condition kids with their own beliefs or opinions has no excuse not to teach firearm safety, and do so without the parent's consent. Parents of kids in public schools have been beaten into submission about sex ed and a ton of stuff that should be up to the parents. It's all done in the interest of the public good. Firearm safety fits in that category, and then some. Everyone screams about accidental injury and death from discharges - it's in the statistics spouted every time someone cries about need more gun control of some kind. Yet, they fail to see that the answer isn't control but rather education. If they taught the kids to respect firearms, what to do if they find one, what to do if their friend shows them one, what to do if someone points a gun at them, even during play, there'd be fewer deaths - far fewer than providing a lock for every single firearm (which is what the industries answer is to the problem). No, if the gun controllers truly wanted to solve gun deaths, they'd start with EDUCATION. Still disagree, its' the parents decision whether or not they want their own kids handling firearms and if they do then they can register their children in a firearms safety course which is mandatory up here before they can take the hunters safety course which is needed to obtain hunting licenses. All I keep hearing is how the schools are groomers and you want to add guns in the mix. Jesus man the gun culture in the US is strong enough without grooming kids FFS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Steve753 Posted June 23, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted June 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, HSR said: Still disagree, its' the parents decision whether or not they want their own kids handling firearms and if they do then they can register their children in a firearms safety course which is mandatory up here before they can take the hunters safety course which is needed to obtain hunting licenses. All I keep hearing is how the schools are groomers and you want to add guns in the mix. Jesus man the gun culture in the US is strong enough without grooming kids FFS. Do you keep a handgun on your kitchen counter for protection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p51mstg Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Steve753 said: Well if the gun wasn't there in the first place there would be any accidental discharges now would there. This is not an argument. There's no way to make all guns disappear. As long as there are guns, someone will have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Steve753 Posted June 23, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, p51mstg said: This is not an argument. There's no way to make all guns disappear. As long as there are guns, someone will have them. Less is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Steve753 said: Do you keep a handgun on your kitchen counter for protection? No and even if I was allowed to carry a handgun I couldn't be bothered. WTF would I need it for? Funny thing is , I betcha I've killed more things than 90% of the forum.If not more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p51mstg Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, HSR said: Still disagree, its' the parents decision whether or not they want their own kids handling firearms and if they do then they can register their children in a firearms safety course which is mandatory up here before they can take the hunters safety course which is needed to obtain hunting licenses. All I keep hearing is how the schools are groomers and you want to add guns in the mix. Jesus man the gun culture in the US is strong enough without grooming kids FFS. I'm saying that if the left can push every belief system that they want in a public school and bully and belittle every parent who chooses homeschool or private school, then mandatory firearm safety, taught from the perspective of a firearms expert is justified. "Guns" are the last line of defense for those living with disabilities, the poor and those who live at the fringes of society. You'd think the left would stick up for these people, but they throw them under the bus with their gun control. We all have a right to self defense, especially the poor and powerless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bontz Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, Steve753 said: Less is better. Why? So people who obtain them illegally can't get to them? That would be the only rationale I see. Law-abiding citizens, whether they own one gun or a one hundred, are not the problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p51mstg Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, Steve753 said: Less is better. You're gaslighting now. You said: 13 minutes ago, Steve753 said: Well if the gun wasn't there in the first place there would be any accidental discharges now would there. Meaning, if there were no guns, there would be no accidental discharges. "Less" and "wasn't there" are different things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 The US has more shootings than any other civilized country in the entire world. Why?Is it the only country with mental health issues?Is it the only country with criminals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Steve753 Posted June 23, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, HSR said: The US has more shootings than any other civilized country in the entire world. Why?Is it the only country with mental health issues?Is it the only country with criminals? The constitution says!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 37 minutes ago, p51mstg said: Those who carry legally aren't the people you need to worry about. In fact, I would venture to say that those who carry a firearm illegally aren't even the ones you need to worry about. LOL I have my conceal carry renewal permit on my desk to renew right now. I'll get that done today. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p51mstg Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 27 minutes ago, HSR said: Still disagree, its' the parents decision whether or not they want their own kids handling firearms and if they do then they can register their children in a firearms safety course which is mandatory up here before they can take the hunters safety course which is needed to obtain hunting licenses. All I keep hearing is how the schools are groomers and you want to add guns in the mix. Jesus man the gun culture in the US is strong enough without grooming kids FFS. I'd like to add this, if I may. I said what I did to stir up the dust a bit, but I can't think of a single kid who shouldn't know what to do if they encounter a gun. Too many of them find themselves in that situation, and way too many of those don't know what to do. Most get lucky and nothing happens. I don't want any kid to rely on luck. 10 minutes ago, HSR said: The US has more shootings than any other civilized country in the entire world. Why?Is it the only country with mental health issues?Is it the only country with criminals? This argument is based on what you've heard, not what you know. You've been told this, without any proof. It's not your fault. Guns are the only tool that gets blamed for the evils committed by humans onto other humans. When a rental truck drives into a group of people, is it the trucks fault? No. A better measurement is the number of violent deaths, number of accidental deaths, number of murders - things like that. In order to solve the root cause, one must first clearly identify the problem. If we don't want to solve the root cause, then we must first misidentify the problem. For example, what's the problem with Tik Tok? Is it data privacy? No, it's not. The problem is that the Chinese government is directly manipulating the algorithms in order to brainwash kids in other countries. Once you see that, you can't unsee it. It's the same with "gun violence" - this single term has effectively made a solution impossible, because we're fighting about the wrong thing. Edited June 23, 2023 by p51mstg 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 27 minutes ago, HSR said: The US has more shootings than any other civilized country in the entire world. Why?Is it the only country with mental health issues?Is it the only country with criminals? Is that because of the lack of gun laws or the lack of full enforcement of the current gun laws? Prime example is Hunter Biden's plea deal for felony possession of a firearm. No prison time............... Yet your father the President of the country is campaigning for tougher gun laws. Edited June 23, 2023 by Doug 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p51mstg Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 11 minutes ago, Steve753 said: The constitution says!!!! The right of the people shall not be infringed, that's what it says. I would normally call myself a Federalist, had I lived in Colonial times. But, the Antifederalists were correct. Think about what our country would be like without the Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights is a list of things that the government CAN'T do. It's not about granting those rights to citizens, it's about preventing the government from taking them away. Imagine a life without the right to remain silent, without the right against unwarranted searches and seizures, without the right of a speedy trial, without the right to speak freely or gather in a public place.... Every day, the giant bureaucracy finds ways around those 10 Amendments, but they still remain to protect us. Maybe some day the government will be able to get rid of them, but that day is in the future - not today. Today, US citizens have the right to defend ourselves and, I maintain, a DUTY to defend ourselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommcat Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Steve753 said: Don't really see why a 10 year old needs to do this. Hunting is a different story. Pistols aren't used for hunting though. To each his own I guess. that's like saying AR's arent used for hunting, it's simply not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommcat Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 55 minutes ago, HSR said: Sorry I totally disagree. That is something that is up to the parents and whether or not they want their kids handling firearms. School is the LAST place kids should be learning gun safety, they are there to learn other things. i agree, but they also shouldnt be taught that guns are evil. the topic simply doesnt need to be brought up at all, and both sides could be happy. i was initially introduced to guns in cub scouts, at a pretty early age. which is a totally different situation than a public school. i do however think that kids SHOULD be introduced to guns, shooting and safety at an early age to help eliminate fear and or curiosity. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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