50 years of tax cuts for the rich failed to trickle down, economics study says

[ActionfigureJoe]

It’s already been established here that deficit spending is overblown. Not an issue. 

[SnowRider]

Racer  AMG Mini  

[Zambroski]

Poor Pouty.  Dating Tools now.  We all saw it coming.  

You guys should ride together!  AHAHHAHAHAHAHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Highmark]

44 minutes ago, Angry ginger said:

they are not going to pay down the debt regardless until we have a voter base who requires it.  I agree that you don;t raise taxes if you are not going to decrease spending.  We need to do both.  

Its laughable to think any real deficit reduction is possible.   We need a balanced budget amendment to the constitution with tax revenue set to realistic levels.

With entitlement spending (non discretionary) set to increase dramatically our only hope is a balanced budget that becomes a smaller % of GPD as it grows.  Unfortunately its political suicide or anyone to go after reasonable controls of SS or Medicare.   Hell we can't even get our politicians to go after the massive fraud in those 2 programs. 

Edited December 30, 2020 by Highmark

[Zambroski]

Just now, Highmark said:

Its laughable to think any real deficit reduction is possible.   We need a balanced budget amendment to the constitution with tax revenue set to realistic levels.

With entitlement spending (non discretionary) set to increase dramatically our only hope is a balanced budget that becomes a smaller % of GPD as it grows.

This can't and won't happen.  Social/entitlement programs will grow exponentially faster from this point on.  A heavier tax burden on businesses will show up first but will only be the beginning as the spending will quickly dwarf what new tax implications will be passed.

We're really in for it this time.

[Highmark]

5 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

This can't and won't happen.  Social/entitlement programs will grow exponentially faster from this point on.  A heavier tax burden on businesses will show up first but will only be the beginning as the spending will quickly dwarf what new tax implications will be passed.

We're really in for it this time.

We are at some point but we are a ways off.   Japan's and other countries Debt to GDP dwarf's ours and they have yet to fail. 

[Zambroski]

Just now, Highmark said:

We are at some point but we are a ways off.   Japan's and other countries Debt to GDP dwarf's ours and they have yet to fail. 

Somebody has to be first!  The reason nobody takes our debt seriously is because it's never caused any substantial amount of downturn.  It's kind of weird, actually.

[Highmark]

Just now, Zambroski said:

Somebody has to be first!  The reason nobody takes our debt seriously is because it's never caused any substantial amount of downturn.  It's kind of weird, actually.

Well the world goes down if we do so there's that.    

[Zambroski]

Just now, Highmark said:

Well the world goes down if we do so there's that.    

[Highmark]

13 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

Balance the budget with reasonable tax revenue to GDP ratios and maintain 3% GDP growth and in 20 years nobody would even be talking about the deficit anymore even though it would still be over $23 trillion.   Paying off any substantial portion of the deficit is an unrealistic endeavor.  

Edited December 30, 2020 by Highmark

[NaturallyAspirated]

Shocked.

Neal

[Zambroski]

Just now, Highmark said:

Balance the budget with reasonable tax revenue to GDP ratios and maintain 3% GDP growth and in 20 years nobody would even be talking about the deficit anymore even though it would still be over $23 trillion.   Paying off any substantial portion of the deficit is an unrealistic endeavor.  

Good plan.  I just don't see any of it being possible because of DC's lack of caring.  Especially right now.  What we are about to see is the same smoke and mirror, sidewalk chalk drawings we saw during the Obama era.  IF we even see that at all.  We may not see anything at all out of Biden's administration.  They will run completely unchecked if they get the senate.  I am in GA right now and it's a full on shit show.  

[Highmark]

30 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

Good plan.  I just don't see any of it being possible because of DC's lack of caring.  Especially right now.  What we are about to see is the same smoke and mirror, sidewalk chalk drawings we saw during the Obama era.  IF we even see that at all.  We may not see anything at all out of Biden's administration.  They will run completely unchecked if they get the senate.  I am in GA right now and it's a full on shit show.  

Its not possible but would be nice.  

[BobRoss]

What is taxes based on? The movement of money. How do you move more money? Decrease the cost to move that money. Finding that tricky balance of low enough taxes to move more money that produces a higher overall tax government income than just raising the taxes which could and most likely will slow down the movement of money.

 

Also, if this thread was based on the trump tax cuts benefiting the rich. Low to middle income saw the biggest drops and specifically targeted high income earners deductions like the SALT deduction.

      "Americans paid almost $64 billion less in federal income taxes during the first year under the Republican tax overhaul signed into law in late 2017 by President Donald Trump, with some of the sharpest drops clustered among taxpayers earning between $25,000 and $100,000 a year, even as the overall number of refunds dropped during a turbulent tax season."

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-is-how-much-american-workers-saved-during-the-first-year-after-trumps-tax-reform-2020-03-03

 

Now talking about the corporate tax cuts. What is the point of taxing corporations more if they decide to move out of the country because the cost of production is too high in this country? Sure you may make more from the ones staying here, but all the large corps are just going to leave and produce overseas and cause a lower overall taxable income.

[Highmark]

5 minutes ago, BobRoss said:

What is taxes based on? The movement of money. How do you move more money? Decrease the cost to move that money. Finding that tricky balance of low enough taxes to move more money that produces a higher overall tax government income than just raising the taxes which could and most likely will slow down the movement of money.

 

Also, if this thread was based on the trump tax cuts benefiting the rich. Low to middle income saw the biggest drops and specifically targeted high income earners deductions like the SALT deduction.

      "Americans paid almost $64 billion less in federal income taxes during the first year under the Republican tax overhaul signed into law in late 2017 by President Donald Trump, with some of the sharpest drops clustered among taxpayers earning between $25,000 and $100,000 a year, even as the overall number of refunds dropped during a turbulent tax season."

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-is-how-much-american-workers-saved-during-the-first-year-after-trumps-tax-reform-2020-03-03

 

Now talking about the corporate tax cuts. What is the point of taxing corporations more if they decide to move out of the country because the cost of production is too high in this country? Sure you may make more from the ones staying here, but all the large corps are just going to leave and produce overseas and cause a lower overall taxable income.

Sadly here many think increase in taxes is the only thing to be done. 

If Trump tax cuts didn't benefit the lower and middle classes why is Biden only proposing tax increases (or to return to Obama era levels) on those over $400K?  I'd love to hear the response from the pro Biden tax plan crowd.   

[BobRoss]

2 minutes ago, Highmark said:

Sadly here many think increase in taxes is the only thing to be done. 

If Trump tax cuts didn't benefit the lower and middle classes why is Biden only proposing tax increases (or to return to Obama era levels) on those over $400K?  I'd love to hear the response from the pro Biden tax plan crowd.   

Biden originally said in the primaries that he is going to get rid of the Trump Tax cuts. Which would directly increase the tax on low to middle income earners the most.

[ActionfigureJoe]

1 hour ago, Highmark said:

Its laughable to think any real deficit reduction is possible.   We need a balanced budget amendment to the constitution with tax revenue set to realistic levels.

With entitlement spending (non discretionary) set to increase dramatically our only hope is a balanced budget that becomes a smaller % of GPD as it grows.  Unfortunately its political suicide or anyone to go after reasonable controls of SS or Medicare.   Hell we can't even get our politicians to go after the massive fraud in those 2 programs. 

Massive fraud? What’s considered massive? And where’s the proof? 

[ActionfigureJoe]

2 minutes ago, BobRoss said:

Biden originally said in the primaries that he is going to get rid of the Trump Tax cuts. Which would directly increase the tax on low to middle income earners the most.

That’s not his plan. You’re making shit up

[BobRoss]

1 hour ago, Zambroski said:

Somebody has to be first!  The reason nobody takes our debt seriously is because it's never caused any substantial amount of downturn.  It's kind of weird, actually.

Because we are a world superpower and have a very strong military. Money is based totally on a belief system that we hold power. As soon as that belief is gone, than we will have some major issues. It is why 3rd world countries have shitty exchange rates to the dollar. Their government holds no power over us.

[BobRoss]

1 minute ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

That’s not his plan. You’re making shit up

I am talking about primary Biden when he ran on a completely different platform than his platform against Trump. He said many times that he would eliminate the Trump tax cuts. He completely changed on what his policy would be when he was running against Trump.

 

 

 

 

 

[ActionfigureJoe]

1 minute ago, BobRoss said:

I am talking about primary Biden when he ran on a completely different platform than his platform against Trump. He said many times that he would eliminate the Trump tax cuts. He completely changed on what his policy would be when he was running against Trump.

 

 

 

 

 

He’s made it very clear. No tax increases for those under $400k. 

[Highmark]

9 minutes ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

Massive fraud? What’s considered massive? And where’s the proof? 

You serious Clark?   You don't think massive fraud exists in the SS disability?   What the point in posting any links with you.    

 

[Mainecat]

14 minutes ago, BobRoss said:

Biden originally said in the primaries that he is going to get rid of the Trump Tax cuts. Which would directly increase the tax on low to middle income earners the most.

Corporate cuts were permanent. Not so much for the working Americans.

[ActionfigureJoe]

1 minute ago, Highmark said:

You serious Clark?   You don't think massive fraud exists in the SS disability?   What the point in posting any links with you.    

 

Massive fraud is claimed and seemingly disproven in everything these days. You throw out these claims with the same kind of proof as the ridiculous voter fraud claims. 

[Highmark]

4 minutes ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

Massive fraud is claimed and seemingly disproven in everything these days. You throw out these claims with the same kind of proof as the ridiculous voter fraud claims. 

https://www.smpresource.org/Content/Medicare-Fraud/Dollars-Lost-to-Fraud.aspx#:~:text=Medicare loses billions of dollars,of annual health care expenditures.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/disability-usa/

Do you believe there is fraud in defense spending, taxes or govt subsidies?  I do....Its human nature dude. 

 

How about the GAO.   You guys love those govt accountability offices.

$50+ billion a year.   Yeah I'd say that's massive.

https://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-18-660T

Medicare improper payments were estimated to be about $52 billion in fiscal year 2017. As program spending increases, the cost of fraud could increase as well.

Edited December 30, 2020 by Highmark