Are you only against socialism for the people or are you against socialism?

[Anler]

So everyone thinks socialism is bad and leads to communism, right? But large American corps dont agree and in fact believe the opposite. All of these bail outs are corporate socialism and the corps are demanding it.

You can believe this is all because of coronavirus but instead of using profits, govt subsidies, grants, low interest loans, tax incentives, etc...to shore up the strength and longevity of their business, they used them to funnel cash to executives with stock buy backs and other executive benefits. Now that there is a disruption they dont have any cash to weather the storm so they need your money.

The govt is now engaging in loans, grants, buying corporate debt and even partial ownership of certain corps. Thats socialism. And on a scale far greater than anything any of us will ever benefit from. Why is it good for them but not you? This will make every one of them richer while making every one of us poorer.

Do you shore up an economy from the top down? Do you build a house starting with the roof? This is nothing more than theft. If this money was used to help people pay their mortgage, rent, utilities, loans, bills, vacations, etc... would that not "trickle up" to these companies needing money? Isnt that how business is supposed to work? 

The $350 billion PPP under the cares act was gobbled up by some of these companies including hedge funds. Alot of legit small businesses got screwed. While the rest of the now MORE than $6 trillion is going to the largest corps and many more are lining up DEMANDING that they get money also. You niggas just got robbed and the funny thing is you will continue to believve that socialism for you is bad while these guys will not skip a beat and make even more money off of your dumb ass. 

Discuss. 

[Anler]

Socialism for them

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/airlines-say-deal-on-bailout-includes-provisions-for-government-ownership-2020-04-14

[Anler]

Corporate Socialism: The Government is Bailing Out Investors & Managers Not You

(With Mark Spitznagel)

Nassim Nicholas Taleb

Follow

Mar 25 · 4 min read

 

 

 

 

The U.S. government is enacting measures to save the airlines, Boeing, and similarly affected corporations. While we clearly insist that these companies must be saved, there may be ethical, economic, and structural problems associated with the details of the execution. As a matter of fact, if you study the history of bailouts, there will be.

Saving Those on th Medusa

The bailouts of 2008–9 saved the banks (but mostly the bankers), thanks to the execution by then-treasury secretary Timothy Geithner who fought for bank executives against both Congress and some other members of the Obama administration. Bankers who lost more money than ever earned in the history of banking, received the largest bonus pool in the history of banking less than two years later, in 2010. And, suspiciously, only a few years later, Geithner received a highly paid position in the finance industry.

That was a blatant case of corporate socialism and a reward to an industry whose managers are stopped out by the taxpayer. The asymmetry (moral hazard) and what we call optionality for the bankers can be expressed as follows: heads and the bankers win, tails and the taxpayer loses. Furthermore, this does not count the policy of quantitative easing that went to inflate asset values and increased inequality by benefiting the super rich. Remember that bailouts come with printed money, which effectively deflate the wages of the middle class in relation to asset values such as ultra-luxury apartments in New York City.

The Generalized Bob Rubin Trade: Keep the profits, transfer losses to taxpayers. Named after Bob Rubin who pocketed 120 million dollars from Citi but claimed uncertainty and kept past bonuses. This encourages anyone to never be insured for such eventualities since the government will pick up the tab.

If It’s Bailed Out, It’s a Utility

First, we must not conflate airlines as a physical company with the financial structure involved. Nor should we conflate the fate of the employees of the airlines with the unemployment of our fellow citizens, which can be directly compensated rather than indirectly via leftovers of corporate subsidies. We should learn from the Geithner episode that bailing out individuals based on their needs is not the same as bailing out corporations based on our need for them.

Saving an airline, therefore, should not equate to subsidizing their shareholders and highly compensated managers and promote additional moral hazard in society. For the very fact that we are saving airlines indicates their role as utility. And if as such they are necessary for society, then why do their managers have optionality? Are civil servants on a bonus scheme? The same argument must also be made, by extension, against indirectly bailing out the pools of capital, like hedge funds and endless investment strategies, that are so exposed to these assets; they have no honest risk mitigation strategy, other than a trained naïve reliance on bailouts or what’s called in the industry the “government put”.

Second, these corporations are lobbying for bailouts, which they will eventually get thanks to the pressure they can exert on the government via lobby units. But how about the small corner restaurant ? The independent tour guide ? The personal trainer? The massage professional? The barber? The hotdog vendor living from tourists near the Met Museum ? These groups cannot afford lobbyists and will be ignored.

Buffers Not Debt

Third, as we have been warning since 2006, companies need buffers to face uncertainty –not debt (an inverse buffer), but buffers. Mother nature gave us two kidneys when we only need about a portion of a single one. Why? Because of contingency. We do not need to predict specific adverse events to know that a buffer is a must. Which brings us to the buyback problem. Why should we spend taxpayer money to bailout companies who spent their cash (and often even borrowed to generate that cash) to buy their own stock (so the CEO gets optionality), instead of building a rainy day buffer? Such bailouts punish those who acted conservatively and harms them in the long run, favoring the fool and the rent-seeker.

Not a Black Swan

Furthermore, some people claim that the pandemic is a “Black Swan”, hence something unexpected so not planning for it is excusable. The book they commonly cite is The Black Swan (by one of us). Had they read that book, they would have known that such a global pandemic is explicitly presented there as a white swan: something that would eventually take place with great certainty. Such acute pandemic is unavoidable, the result of the structure of the modern world; and its economic consequences would be compounded because of the increased connectivity and overoptimization. As a matter of fact, the government of Singapore, whom we advised in the past, was prepared for such an eventuality with a precise plan since as early as 2010.

Free to republish but please mention both authors and do not change a single comma.

[Kivalo]

America loves socialism, we just like to call it stimulus.

[Anler]

1 minute ago, Kivalo said:

America loves socialism, we just like to call it stimulus.

They love rich people and hate each other. 

[Big Crappie]

[Jimmy Snacks]

Apparently it's not socialism when Republicans do it but those goddamn Obamaphones!!!!!! 

[snoughnut]

Sad day when the ultimate capitalists (corps. and banks) have to rely on socialism. We've been bamboozled.

Makes me think of this 

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by snoughnut

[Anler]

Just now, Jimmy Snacks said:

Apparently it's not socialism when Republicans do it but those goddamn Obamaphones!!!!!! 

See thats where we fail. We get caught up in the democrat vs republican bullshit. But whoever is president they ultimately do the exact same shit as every other president and the democrat vs repubicans excuse it by citing the previous abuses by said other party. Meanwhile this shit is going on 24/7 and nobody says shit about it. 

[Anler]

2 minutes ago, snoughnut said:

Sad day when the ultimate capitalists (corps. and banks) have to rely on socialism. We've been bamboozled.

Makes me think of this 

 

Its the exact same thing, they are doing it again. 

[snoughnut]

Just now, Anler said:

See thats where we fail. We get caught up in the democrat vs republican bullshit. But whoever is president they ultimately do the exact same shit as every other president and the democrat vs repubicans excuse it by citing the previous abuses by said other party. Meanwhile this shit is going on 24/7 and nobody says shit about it. 

Explain to the class how you would go about fixing it.

[Jimmy Snacks]

2 minutes ago, Anler said:

See thats where we fail. We get caught up in the democrat vs republican bullshit. But whoever is president they ultimately do the exact same shit as every other president and the democrat vs repubicans excuse it by citing the previous abuses by said other party. Meanwhile this shit is going on 24/7 and nobody says shit about it. 

Oh I know and it will never stop especially because we are  divided along political lines now more than ever. 

[Anler]

1 minute ago, snoughnut said:

Explain to the class how you would go about fixing it.

Well I havent voted for a republican or a democrat in 20 years. You are not electing a candidate, you are electing a party. they own the candidate. 

If enough people got disciplined they would let their leaders know that they will vote out every incumbent candidate, regardless of party if things arent fixed. We did that in Indiana over property taxes back in 07. It worked, they fixed it right away. 

Secondly everyone who posts a meme that says "democrats are to blame for this" or "republicans are to blame for this" need to be euthanized immediately. This would do the most good. 

 

[1jkw]

7 minutes ago, Anler said:

See thats where we fail. We get caught up in the democrat vs republican bullshit. But whoever is president they ultimately do the exact same shit as every other president and the democrat vs repubicans excuse it by citing the previous abuses by said other party. Meanwhile this shit is going on 24/7 and nobody says shit about it. 

If you look at the current situation the Dems. have been far better at handing out the cash, Trump wanted 2.75 billion and he got 5.5, they have been trying to get money for states, hospitals, and working people, the GOP couldn't stand that some working class guy would get $600.00 a week for four months, but have zero issue giving money to companies who's CEO makes multi million dollar salaries.

[SSFB]

13 minutes ago, snoughnut said:

Explain to the class how you would go about fixing it.

Don't vote for them?

[Anler]

Just now, 1jkw said:

If you look at the current situation the Dems. have been far better at handing out the cash, Trump wanted 2.75 billion and he got 5.5, they have been trying to get money for states, hospitals, and working people, the GOP couldn't stand that some working class guy would get $600.00 a week for four months, but have zero issue giving money to companies who's CEO makes multi million dollar salaries.

Not really. Democrats know where their base is but this isnt about helping Joe six pack, this is about theft for the rich. Lobbyists control the purse strings in this country. And I can prove that as I have been approached by state and federal lobbyists about getting "govt money" And it doesnt matter which party is in charge. 

[snoughnut]

6 minutes ago, Anler said:

Well I havent voted for a republican or a democrat in 20 years. You are not electing a candidate, you are electing a party. they own the candidate. 

If enough people got disciplined they would let their leaders know that they will vote out every incumbent candidate, regardless of party if things arent fixed. We did that in Indiana over property taxes back in 07. It worked, they fixed it right away. 

Secondly everyone who posts a meme that says "democrats are to blame for this" or "republicans are to blame for this" need to be euthanized immediately. This would do the most good. 

 

That will never happen and this is why.

[Anler]

Seriously, its time to swallow your pride and admit that you were fooled. There is no ideology at play here, this is the game. And the game is theft of the masses for the connected. 

[Anler]

2 minutes ago, snoughnut said:

That will never happen and this is why.

Yeah well that is the point I am making here. Unless you really believe that giving trillions to corporate executives, foreign countries and lobbyists is the best solution then God help you. 

[snoughnut]

Just now, Anler said:

Yeah well that is the point I am making here. Unless you really believe that giving trillions to corporate executives, foreign countries and lobbyists is the best solution then God help you. 

I never said I believe that for one minute, jesus christ. The powerful, corrupt, greedy bastards got us all right by the balls. When (more than likely if) this country gets back to helping the country and it's people as a whole instead of the miserable, self serving cocksuckers we have now running it, I'll be the first to yell......."it's a miracle".

[Anler]

1 minute ago, snoughnut said:

I never said I believe that for one minute, jesus christ. The powerful, corrupt, greedy bastards got us all right by the balls. When (more than likely if) this country gets back to helping the country and it's people as a whole instead of the miserable, self serving cocksuckers we have now running it, I'll be the first to yell......."it's a miracle".

I didnt mean you specifically i meant generally speaking.. 

[1jkw]

1 hour ago, Anler said:

Not really. Democrats know where their base is but this isnt about helping Joe six pack, this is about theft for the rich. Lobbyists control the purse strings in this country. And I can prove that as I have been approached by state and federal lobbyists about getting "govt money" And it doesnt matter which party is in charge. 

Compare now with when were were in recession 2009, there is no tea party, no shutting down the government over spending, 2.2 trillion spent without any GOP resistance whatsoever, except for the 600.00 a week for laid off workers.  The Dems. did get the UE benefit through and also a house bill to help those making less than $511.00 per day and work for smaller companies.

[frenchy]

why are airlines being spared the normal bankruptcy process? 

[Anler]

9 minutes ago, 1jkw said:

Compare now with when were were in recession 2009, there is no tea party, no shutting down the government over spending, 2.2 trillion spent without any GOP resistance whatsoever, except for the 600.00 a week for laid off workers.  The Dems. did get the UE benefit through and also a house bill to help those making less than $511.00 per day and work for smaller companies.

Oh I agree, republicans are completely content with the "socialism" that is taking place this time when they were out of their mind about it in 2009 because Obama was president. That stimulus was only $800 billion (Excluding TARP and the GM bail out and such) and didnt include checks to people. But this one is already over $6 trillion and climbing. Yep no "conservative" outrage here except for us non partisan dummies. 

[Anler]

11 minutes ago, frenchy said:

why are airlines being spared the normal bankruptcy process? 

Why should anyone? I understand jobs need to be preserved but with what has already been taking place this just looks like pigs feeding at the trough.