Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted August 21, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted August 21, 2019 23 minutes ago, f7ben said: God damn you're dense. Their crime is using you fucking moron. How about instead of imprisoning them for using we just help them when they need help. If you paid one ounce of attention the past years you would understand I don't agree with putting in prison for just using. Release them all tomorrow. However if you were involved in a violent crime you must serve your sentence, fucked up on drugs or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry ginger Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, awful knawful said: Me neither. Don't mind people having a puff. When the coke comes out, I'm gone! same, tbh i don't care if people do it i just don't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 15 minutes ago, ford_428cj said: A bud used to go to Detroit & bring back a bunch from some crazy Columbians. They had machine guns laying on the table & stuff when he went in there. Supposedly tested at 93%. He would smash up huge boulders with a hammer when he got back ...lol. This guy would crack a chunk off of a kilo brick. He was probably moving a couple hundred grand a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted August 21, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted August 21, 2019 12 minutes ago, spin_dry said: That mentality is working just great. Nothing wrong with privately funded rehabilitation centers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Highmark said: If you paid one ounce of attention the past years you would understand I don't agree with putting in prison for just using. Release them all tomorrow. However if you were involved in a violent crime you must serve your sentence, fucked up on drugs or not. That is a fine position....violent offense need adjudicated properly. Possession and consumption should not be criminal offenses 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Jimmy Snacks Posted August 21, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just now, Angry ginger said: same, tbh i don't care if people do it i just don't I have never done it but back in the day most of my riding group did and they usually spent a lot of riding time trying to get more after they horked it all...I just cracked another Bud and watched in amusement. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, f7ben said: That is a fine position....violent offense need adjudicated properly. Possession and consumption should not be criminal offenses The illegality of the drugs is the root of the violence. It's the exact same scenario as prohibition. You are basically creating a market for criminal organizations to grow and thrive. Violence moves parallel to that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Anler said: The illegality of the drugs is the root of the violence. It's the exact same scenario as prohibition. You are basically creating a market for criminal organizations to grow and thrive. Violence moves parallel to that. Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted August 21, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Anler said: The illegality of the drugs is the root of the violence. It's the exact same scenario as prohibition. You are basically creating a market for criminal organizations to grow and thrive. Violence moves parallel to that. Yep. Issue would be could the free market compete with the black market. It would have to in order to reduce violence significantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Highmark said: Yep. Issue would be could the free market compete with the black market. It would have to in order to reduce violence significantly. I watched a video on addiction treatment in Switzerland, I think it was a Joe Rogan pod cast, and they developed a successful method to treat addiction. It seems the countries in Europe that decriminalized drugs are having a reduction in addiction and drug related crime. The black market facilitates a shit ton of legitimate businesses. Think about the network required to move $100 billion dollars a year. Beaners aren't back packing that shit across the border, it's big businesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snopro31 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 15 minutes ago, f7ben said: Anyone who prioritizes punishment ahead of rehabilitation for all but the most serious crimes is a fucking moron If only it were that easy. Up here the best case for some form of rehab is jail. We can't even assess majority of users until they sit in jail for 12-24 hrs due to impaired mental ability. Seeing users daily its amazing how many have said that jail was more beneficial then detox. But with jail filling up majority end up on promise to appears and then have warrants for not appearing. Sadly there isn't appropriate facilities for rehab that the majority of the users can afford to attend. The publicly funded facilities are short duration and relapse rate is over 90%. The best detox facilities are 3+ months. Only problem however is they are expensive. Public system is 21 days and wham back right into the community that will push them back to whatever drug they were addicted too. The current system for fighting it isnt working. Jail isnt the answer but at the moment is a better option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just now, snopro31 said: If only it were that easy. Up here the best case for some form of rehab is jail. We can't even assess majority of users until they sit in jail for 12-24 hrs due to impaired mental ability. Seeing users daily its amazing how many have said that jail was more beneficial then detox. But with jail filling up majority end up on promise to appears and then have warrants for not appearing. Sadly there isn't appropriate facilities for rehab that the majority of the users can afford to attend. The publicly funded facilities are short duration and relapse rate is over 90%. The best detox facilities are 3+ months. Only problem however is they are expensive. Public system is 21 days and wham back right into the community that will push them back to whatever drug they were addicted too. The current system for fighting it isnt working. Jail isnt the answer but at the moment is a better option. We just need a cultural shift in prioritization. We should place the emphasis on rehab and treatment. Build the facilities to deal with these issues. Who cares what it costs. It will be a net savings in the end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snopro31 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Anler said: I watched a video on addiction treatment in Switzerland, I think it was a Joe Rogan pod cast, and they developed a successful method to treat addiction. It seems the countries in Europe that decriminalized drugs are having a reduction in addiction and drug related crime. The black market facilitates a shit ton of legitimate businesses. Think about the network required to move $100 billion dollars a year. Beaners aren't back packing that shit across the border, it's big businesses. Europe def has a better grasp on it then North America. I'd like to see a year long treatment program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just now, f7ben said: We just need a cultural shift in prioritization. We should place the emphasis on rehab and treatment. Build the facilities to deal with these issues. Who cares what it costs. It will be a net savings in the end It costs about $70k a year to incarcerate someone. That's not justifiable to spend that kind of money on someone who poses no threat to the public. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just now, Anler said: It costs about $70k a year to incarcerate someone. That's not justifiable to spend that kind of money on someone who poses no threat to the public. It is if you're the justice and law lobby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snopro31 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just now, f7ben said: We just need a cultural shift in prioritization. We should place the emphasis on rehab and treatment. Build the facilities to deal with these issues. Who cares what it costs. It will be a net savings in the end But you have to have people that will push for that. Right now those in charge aren't willing to do it nor find someone to do it. The community where Rod and I reside is becoming a dump. But there is absolutely nothing productive for rehab/addiction services. We have a "program" thats a complete joke and does nothing but monitor blood born pathogens. If someone could get the government on board to do a P3 partnership for addictions they could make MILLIONS. Its wild how bad the problem actually is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, snopro31 said: Europe def has a better grasp on it then North America. I'd like to see a year long treatment program. They basically found that people eventually get tired of being addicts and want to quit. When you withhold the ability to get treatment because of the illegality it keeps them addicted. Pretty simple really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snopro31 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Anler said: It costs about $70k a year to incarcerate someone. That's not justifiable to spend that kind of money on someone who poses no threat to the public. Thats cheaper then actually dealing with the addiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, f7ben said: It is if you're the justice and law lobby Well that's socialism and I don't support that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just now, snopro31 said: Thats cheaper then actually dealing with the addiction. Show us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snopro31 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Anler said: They basically found that people eventually get tired of being addicts and want to quit. When you withhold the ability to get treatment because of the illegality it keeps them addicted. Pretty simple really. If I remember right private rehab is about $30,000 for a stint. Majority of addicts aren't going to be able to afford anything remotely close to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snopro31 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Anler said: Show us... I'm using cdn figures and from my work experience. 1 addict averages 75 Er visits a year 1 er visit is $500 without any actual treatment. so $37,500 a year in Er visits. Now if you ended up getting HIV that cost goes up. If you overdose it goes WAY up. PCOC treatment costs decent coin. Associated infections from IV use and the cost just keeps climbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, snopro31 said: I'm using cdn figures and from my work experience. 1 addict averages 75 Er visits a year 1 er visit is $500 without any actual treatment. so $37,500 a year in Er visits. Now if you ended up getting HIV that cost goes up. If you overdose it goes WAY up. PCOC treatment costs decent coin. Associated infections from IV use and the cost just keeps climbing. Right so illegal drugs can and are causing a public health crisis, another reason we are dealing with it all wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted August 21, 2019 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted August 21, 2019 20 minutes ago, Anler said: I watched a video on addiction treatment in Switzerland, I think it was a Joe Rogan pod cast, and they developed a successful method to treat addiction. It seems the countries in Europe that decriminalized drugs are having a reduction in addiction and drug related crime. The black market facilitates a shit ton of legitimate businesses. Think about the network required to move $100 billion dollars a year. Beaners aren't back packing that shit across the border, it's big businesses. South Beach/Miami is what it is today because of the cocaine trade of the 80's. Much of the cash turned into legitimate business and massive economic growth. Crack, Meth and Heroin are tough addictions to break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spin_dry Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Highmark said: Nothing wrong with privately funded rehabilitation centers. Because addicts have great insurance coverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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