15,000 Americans Died So Republican Governors Could Stick It to Obama

[revkevsdi]

9 hours ago, SmeeAgain said:

That wasn't the subject at hand in the first place.  The article in question was about referral and treatment for issues.  To compare the province of Ontario's emergency room wait times to the city of New York is stupid.  How about the comparison to the state of Michigan.  The longest average for Michigan was 34 minutes with the typical being around 12 minutes.  Looks like he's going to be waiting typically 8 to 10 times longer for his emergency room care.

 

https://projects.propublica.org/emergency/state/MI

I was looking for new york state since the populations would be closer. I wanted a large city included since the GTA is one of the largest in the North America

 

 

Edited July 26, 2019 by revkevsdi

[revkevsdi]

11 hours ago, SmeeAgain said:

Life expectancy doesn't surprise me at all.  In the US, the farther north you go with the states, the longer it is.  Pretty much a factor of overweight minorities to the south.  Unfortunately, with the infant rate, we again are lowered substantially by our system not taking care of the blacks. If you look at it broken down by race, blacks are often over double that of whites.  Crazy thing is, Hispanics are basically right there with whites, so it's not all black and white so to speak. LOL  I see there are quite a few countries with a lower rate than either us or you.  As far as paying more, I wonder how much it is.  My wife carries our insurance.  We have a 2000 initial deductible and then everything is covered after that.  She has $67 deducted from her paycheck every two weeks.  I don't know much about the tax rate comparison from our respective countries, but I'm guessing you pay your share for it in taxes.  I am happy that one of the best hospitals in the world is just over an hr and a half away and the best hospital in the world is 4 hrs away 

My niece was born very premature.  She spent 2 months in neo natal intensive care with one on one 24 hour nursing care. It cost us nothing.  Would your insurance has hit a maximum dollar figure?

[Rigid1]

1 hour ago, revkevsdi said:

What is your argument? Crusher was crying that we practice hallway medicine. My links showed the wait time for cancer treatment and emergency was less than the US. 

The US??  You picked 5 boroughs in the busiest City in the world....

Nyc 8 million people in 302 square miles.. Ontario has 14 million in 412,600 square miles.. 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Rigid1

[revkevsdi]

9 hours ago, Rigid1 said:

The US??  You picked 5 boroughs in the busiest City in the world....

Nyc 8 million people in 302 square miles.. Ontario has 14 million in 412,600 square miles.. 

 

 

I couldn’t find one for New York State. Go ahead and show me one for the whole state to compare instead of just bitching. 

 

Edited July 26, 2019 by revkevsdi

[Rigid1]

20 hours ago, SmeeAgain said:

That wasn't the subject at hand in the first place.  The article in question was about referral and treatment for issues.  To compare the province of Ontario's emergency room wait times to the city of New York is stupid.  How about the comparison to the state of Michigan.  The longest average for Michigan was 34 minutes with the typical being around 12 minutes.  Looks like he's going to be waiting typically 8 to 10 times longer for his emergency room care.

 

https://projects.propublica.org/emergency/state/MI

 

Just now, revkevsdi said:

I couldn’t find one for New York State. Go ahead and show me one for the whole state to compare instead of just bitching. 

 

So thats how you shut people up with your "facts"..By deception and dishonesty??

 

Smee posted one for you on the state of Michigan..See above..

 Looks like you will be waiting quite a bit longer than anyone in Michigan..Oops

 

 

[racer254]

1 hour ago, Rigid1 said:

 

So thats how you shut people up with your "facts"..By deception and dishonesty??

 

Smee posted one for you on the state of Michigan..See above..

 Looks like you will be waiting quite a bit longer than anyone in Michigan..Oops

 

 

Most of the articles that catch these guys are all designed around that....and they post those articles.

[SmeeAgain]

12 hours ago, revkevsdi said:

My niece was born very premature.  She spent 2 months in neo natal intensive care with one on one 24 hour nursing care. It cost us nothing.  Would your insurance has hit a maximum dollar figure?

No max figure.  Melissa's surgery was $70K and our deductible was already met so the only costs we had was our $40 copay for the office visit. 

[Snake]

12 hours ago, revkevsdi said:

My niece was born very premature.  She spent 2 months in neo natal intensive care with one on one 24 hour nursing care. It cost us nothing.  Would your insurance has hit a maximum dollar figure?

Nope.

 

[SmeeAgain]

12 hours ago, revkevsdi said:

I was looking for new york state since the populations would be closer. I wanted a large city included since the GTA is one of the largest in the North America

 

 

The problem with picking New York for an example is it's very densely populated and just getting an ambulance to your location could take 30 minutes when they started a few blocks away.  We have Flint (toilet), Grand Rapids (great city), Ann Arbor(Best), Lansing, Kalamazoo, and Detroit for large cities.  I've spoke to many Docs and they all say for a really busy and crazy time, do an ER in Detroit.  They all have some great stories to tell. 

[revkevsdi]

5 hours ago, Rigid1 said:

 

So thats how you shut people up with your "facts"..By deception and dishonesty??

 

Smee posted one for you on the state of Michigan..See above..

 Looks like you will be waiting quite a bit longer than anyone in Michigan..Oops

 

 

Funny that you think that’s a fair comparison after just railing about New York City being used is unfair. Detroit is the largest city and only has 700,000 people.  Not even close to Toronto’s population. 

Try to be a little honest with your argument s. 

[revkevsdi]

2 hours ago, SmeeAgain said:

The problem with picking New York for an example is it's very densely populated and just getting an ambulance to your location could take 30 minutes when they started a few blocks away.  We have Flint (toilet), Grand Rapids (great city), Ann Arbor(Best), Lansing, Kalamazoo, and Detroit for large cities.  I've spoke to many Docs and they all say for a really busy and crazy time, do an ER in Detroit.  They all have some great stories to tell. 

Which is precisely why the Michigan comparison doesn’t make sense. The Greater Toronto area is almost 10 times the size of Detroit. 

[revkevsdi]

3 hours ago, SmeeAgain said:

No max figure.  Melissa's surgery was $70K and our deductible was already met so the only costs we had was our $40 copay for the office visit. 

 

3 hours ago, Snake said:

Nope.

 

So what are your monthly premiums and what’s the deductible?

Here is a tax calculator so you can see how much extra we pay in taxes than you  

https://www.taxtips.ca/calculators/canadian-tax/canadian-tax-calculator.htm

Edited July 26, 2019 by revkevsdi

[Rigid1]

33 minutes ago, revkevsdi said:

Funny that you think that’s a fair comparison after just railing about New York City being used is unfair. Detroit is the largest city and only has 700,000 people.  Not even close to Toronto’s population. 

Try to be a little honest with your argument s. 

oh you try so hard Barb..sad really..

[SmeeAgain]

49 minutes ago, revkevsdi said:

 

So what are your monthly premiums and what’s the deductible?

Here is a tax calculator so you can see how much extra we pay in taxes than you  

https://www.taxtips.ca/calculators/canadian-tax/canadian-tax-calculator.htm

Our Monthly premiums are $140 with some doctors offices charging $20 and some charge $40

That tax calculator looks like a lot of work!  LOL  It's difficult to calculate the actual rates between our countries as I don't know how to add deductions and such for yours.  Here, there are so many deductions and ways to manipulate your income, that it's very difficult to get a reasonable comparison.

53 minutes ago, revkevsdi said:

Which is precisely why the Michigan comparison doesn’t make sense. The Greater Toronto area is almost 10 times the size of Detroit. 

The "greater" Detroit area is almost 5 million people. Seems like the comparison to Michigan is pretty valid.  Not many people live in the city of Detroit comparing to the surrounding area - probably just like Toronto. 

Edited July 26, 2019 by SmeeAgain

[revkevsdi]

1 hour ago, Rigid1 said:

oh you try so hard Barb..sad really..

Proving you wrong is easy.  Getting you to admit it is impossible. But that’s on you. 

1 hour ago, SmeeAgain said:

Our Monthly premiums are $140 with some doctors offices charging $20 and some charge $40

That tax calculator looks like a lot of work!  LOL  It's difficult to calculate the actual rates between our countries as I don't know how to add deductions and such for yours.  Here, there are so many deductions and ways to manipulate your income, that it's very difficult to get a reasonable comparison.

The "greater" Detroit area is almost 5 million people. Seems like the comparison to Michigan is pretty valid.  Not many people live in the city of Detroit comparing to the surrounding area - probably just like Toronto. 

The tax calculator takes less than 5 straight forward imo. 

So greater detroit is almost 5 million greater Toronto is almost 7 million and great New York is almost 8.5 million waiting times double in each case. 

That’s a far cry from the claims that the Canadian system is far worse. 

Our system is far from perfect. We are one of the highest cost per capital compared to EU countries. But we are a large land mass with a small population. but we are still approx half the US costs. The US should see savings based on volumes  

https://www.cihi.ca/en/how-does-canadas-health-spending-compare-internationally

[Angry ginger]

2 hours ago, revkevsdi said:

 

So what are your monthly premiums and what’s the deductible?

Here is a tax calculator so you can see how much extra we pay in taxes than you  

https://www.taxtips.ca/calculators/canadian-tax/canadian-tax-calculator.htm

including the employers portion which is the important thing many miss,  that is the real cost,  without the employer paying it they could pay you more.   mines 2k a month between us with a 5k deductible or $29,000 a year.  10% medical income tax rate on the 4 of us to cover medical would have been cheaper

[Rigid1]

2 hours ago, revkevsdi said:

Proving you wrong is easy.  Getting you to admit it is impossible.

Barb, do me a favor and please quote me where I typed anything wrong, deceptive, or dishonest..bold it if you can find it..Try your little hands off to find it..

[Zambroski]

“Barb”.

 

[revkevsdi]

18 hours ago, Angry ginger said:

including the employers portion which is the important thing many miss,  that is the real cost,  without the employer paying it they could pay you more.   mines 2k a month between us with a 5k deductible or $29,000 a year.  10% medical income tax rate on the 4 of us to cover medical would have been cheaper

It’s funny that no one likes to get into specifics. They just wanted to talk about one wait time horror story. 

Or something they heard. 

Ive had 3 emergency room visits in the last 6 years. As I get older my reflexes aren’t saving me anymore. Each time the care was great. My brothers experience when his daughter was born was great and my fathers heart attack and bypass was great. We can all advocate for ourselves and are the type of people that will recover reasonably well. A street person is probably not going to get the same care anywhere. Some of the horror stories the US health industry like to talk about are from people that are frequent flyers with self inflicted health problems. 

The financial thing is the same. 

Nothing is free. Canadians pay for their health care through taxes. So comparing what we pay in taxes to what Americans pay plus what their employers pay and adding them together is a fairer assessment. Seems like people on here back away when I want to do a direct comparison.  

[SmeeAgain]

20 hours ago, revkevsdi said:

Proving you wrong is easy.  Getting you to admit it is impossible. But that’s on you. 

The tax calculator takes less than 5 straight forward imo. 

So greater detroit is almost 5 million greater Toronto is almost 7 million and great New York is almost 8.5 million waiting times double in each case. 

That’s a far cry from the claims that the Canadian system is far worse. 

Our system is far from perfect. We are one of the highest cost per capital compared to EU countries. But we are a large land mass with a small population. but we are still approx half the US costs. The US should see savings based on volumes  

https://www.cihi.ca/en/how-does-canadas-health-spending-compare-internationally

The fact is, you wait far longer for emergency room care and far longer for referral care than us. The links proved that. Also we have the top hospitals in the world right here at our disposal. The real problem with our healthcare costs in comparison to yours is that the entire system costs so much more. The doctors get paid way more here than in Canada - like 10 times or more at least. My wife works in the radiology department at the local hospital. The radiologist there moved from Canada to the US because he wanted to make far more money than was available at the same position in Canada. After speaking with him at many parties, I can assure you our health care system, while flawed too, gives you the quickest and best care you're going to find. Dr Clive spent over 10 years in the Canadian system, before he moved to Port Huron. Both his kids attend The University of Michigan. I've given him tickets to football games from our season tickets. The whole healthcare industry is big business here, not just a service - that's the real cost difference problem. Obviously our service times and especially referral times are far quicker than yours, but that comes with the territory. 

Edited July 27, 2019 by SmeeAgain

[steve from amherst]

2 minutes ago, SmeeAgain said:

The real problem with our healthcare costs in comparison to yours is that the entire system costs so much more. The doctors get paid way more here than in Canada - like 10 times or more. My wife works in the radiology department at the local hospital. The radiologist there moved from Canada to the US because he wanted to make far more money than was available at the same position in Canada. After speaking with him at many parties, I can assure you our health care system, while flawed too, gives you the quickest and best care you're going to find. Dr Clive spent over 10 years in the Canadian system, before he moved to Port Huron. Both his kids attend The University of Michigan. I've given him tickets to football games from our season tickets. The whole healthcare industry is big business here, not just a service - that's the real cost difference problem. Obviously our service times and especially referral times are far quicker than yours, but that comes with the territory. 

THe biggest problem with our health care system is that no one cares what it costs.

[Angry ginger]

Just now, steve from amherst said:

THe biggest problem with our health care system is that no one cares what it costs.

yup,  obamarare no obamacare doesn't matter until we attack the cost of care.  TBH it should be a bit socialized.  forgive medical debt and control the income of care providers in exchange.  Pay them well but not obscenely which was historically the way they earned.  A majority of commercial construction i see has some sort of med in it,  we don't need a large amount of these facilities.   the Dover hospital affiliated with Mass general and  is trying to steal Portsmouths business so opened a 3 building campus on Pease that cost tens of millions to provide service that was already being provided

[SmeeAgain]

I was in the ER a couple of months ago. I didn't have to wait at all for my care. Kinda nice really. 

[Angry ginger]

2 minutes ago, SmeeAgain said:

I was in the ER a couple of months ago. I didn't have to wait at all for my care. Kinda nice really. 

walk in care has taken much of the wait out of the ER.  I far prefer going to walk in that dealing with appointments at the doctor or going to the ER

[steve from amherst]

1 minute ago, Angry ginger said:

walk in care has taken much of the wait out of the ER.  I far prefer going to walk in that dealing with appointments at the doctor or going to the ER

Yep, I have a primary care and do a walk in 80% of the time. Before I had ins I used them for everything. On the way out the door they would toss ya a freebie antibiotic that was worth the cost of the office visit.