How a 4-Hour Battle Between Russian Mercenaries and U.S. Commandos Unfolded in Syria

[spin_dry]

2 hours ago, DriftBusta said:

And why would we do that?

These fancy force multipliers aren’t always available in actual combat. The Germans found it out the hard way when they invaded mother Russia. 

[Highmark]

2 hours ago, Edmo said:

The guys on the ground are giving the pilots the coordinates. You can’t see everything that’s going on way up there.

Not saying it wasn't extremely useful.   Just saying the capabilities for air strikes aren't solely dependent on ground forces.  

[DriftBusta]

42 minutes ago, spin_dry said:

These fancy force multipliers aren’t always available in actual combat. The Germans found it out the hard way when they invaded mother Russia. 

Maybe when Obama was president.  New guy in charge now.

[spin_dry]

1 hour ago, DriftBusta said:

Maybe when Obama was president.  New guy in charge now.

Mmhmm. Yemen 

[XCR1250]

19 hours ago, Carlos Danger said:

Tom Clancy used to joke that if you see an Apache Helicopter coming for you don't run......you will just die tired.

Or an A-10.

[DriftBusta]

2 hours ago, spin_dry said:

Mmhmm. Yemen 

So when are you taking your next vacation, when the indictments are handed down?

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

9 hours ago, Highmark said:

So ALL airpower depends on ground forces?    Huh who know billion $ planes were so incapable.  

Not taking away anything from the guys on the ground but the airpower wins that battle with or without ground forces.   Ground forces don't win that battle without air power. 

All AirPower depends on some sort of intel to confirm a target. The vast majority of that, comes from ground forces. Fixed wing (non-drone) craft will not fire on a target in the GWOT theater without fire direction from the ground.

Will drones fire on targets based off their own confirmation, sure. Other fixed wing craft will not. A JFO, JTAC, trained dude on the ground is relaying so much information other than just “that’s a bad guy”. They are stacking air craft, controlling the airspace, determining ordinance, conducting BDA, follow on fires, and protecting friendly ground assets.

You guys can laugh at me and act like you have a clue, but I’ve controlled fixed, rotary, and indirect fires more times than I can count. They don’t just pick their own shit. Ever. Not in GWOT theaters of operation. 

7 hours ago, ford_428cj said:

AC-130s in action?

Yeah, it’s pretty tight butthole.

7 hours ago, f7ben said:

Are you fucking retarded? We have satellites in space that can see a flea on a dogs ass.....drone 20k feet up that can read the fine print on your cialis script....sweet fuck fucking kill yourself now

Non DOD drones are not military drones and fixed wing craft. Two different ROEs. 

[f7ben]

17 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

All AirPower depends on some sort of intel to confirm a target. The vast majority of that, comes from ground forces. Fixed wing (non-drone) craft will not fire on a target in the GWOT theater without fire direction from the ground.

Will drones fire on targets based off their own confirmation, sure. Other fixed wing craft will not. A JFO, JTAC, trained dude on the ground is relaying so much information other than just “that’s a bad guy”. They are stacking air craft, controlling the airspace, determining ordinance, conducting BDA, follow on fires, and protecting friendly ground assets.

You guys can laugh at me and act like you have a clue, but I’ve controlled fixed, rotary, and indirect fires more times than I can count. They don’t just pick their own shit. Ever. Not in GWOT theaters of operation. 

Yeah, it’s pretty tight butthole.

Non DOD drones are not military drones and fixed wing craft. Two different ROEs. 

I'm just saying.....we launch about 20k drone strikes a year for the last 15+ years are the vast majority of those are based on satellite and drone acquired imagery. 

[Highmark]

20 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

All AirPower depends on some sort of intel to confirm a target. The vast majority of that, comes from ground forces. Fixed wing (non-drone) craft will not fire on a target in the GWOT theater without fire direction from the ground.

Will drones fire on targets based off their own confirmation, sure. Other fixed wing craft will not. A JFO, JTAC, trained dude on the ground is relaying so much information other than just “that’s a bad guy”. They are stacking air craft, controlling the airspace, determining ordinance, conducting BDA, follow on fires, and protecting friendly ground assets.

You guys can laugh at me and act like you have a clue, but I’ve controlled fixed, rotary, and indirect fires more times than I can count. They don’t just pick their own shit. Ever. Not in GWOT theaters of operation. 

Yeah, it’s pretty tight butthole.

Non DOD drones are not military drones and fixed wing craft. Two different ROEs. 

So in the early hours of the Gulf War and Shock and Awe of operation Iraqi Freedom no non-drone aircraft were delivering ordinance without ground force callouts and direction?  

Edited April 24, 2019 by Highmark

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

Just now, f7ben said:

I'm just saying.....we launch about 20k drone strikes a year for the last 15+ years are the vast majority of those are based on satellite and drone acquired imagery. 

Most of them are based off some intel directing them to a place. Whether that is intel from foreign agents, us assets, etc. But yes, the drone program from the CIA doesn’t require ground approval for hellfires. Every single fixed wing craft in this story, however, had a direct command from a ground based asset.

[f7ben]

Just now, Highmark said:

So in the early hours of the Gulf War and Shock and Awe of operation Iraqi Freedom no non-drone aircraft were delivering ordinance?  

They were striking hard fixed targets that we had Intel on. Not an active battlefield scenario

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

1 minute ago, Highmark said:

So in the early hours of the Gulf War and Shock and Awe of operation Iraqi Freedom no non-drone aircraft were delivering ordinance without ground force callouts and direction?  

Completely different story. Attacking known locations during pre invasion strikes and GWOT continuing operations are not the same thing. Troops in contact handle all air assets from the ground. End of story. But please, tell me more how it works. This was my shit. I’m not trying to wave it around in your face, but this is what I did. It’s how it is.

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

2 minutes ago, f7ben said:

They were striking hard fixed targets that we had Intel on. Not an active battlefield scenario

Exactly. 

[Highmark]

Just now, f7ben said:

They were striking hard fixed targets that we had Intel on. Not an active battlefield scenario

How about on the Highway of Death during the Gulf War?  

I realize that in most combat situations that most often there is ground troop support I'm just shocked that is the absolute only time certain aircraft is utilized for ground attacks.

Didn't our planes "Scud Hunt" during dessert storm?  

[Roosting]

1 hour ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

Completely different story. Attacking known locations during pre invasion strikes and GWOT continuing operations are not the same thing. Troops in contact handle all air assets from the ground. End of story. But please, tell me more how it works. This was my shit. I’m not trying to wave it around in your face, but this is what I did. It’s how it is.

this is your area of knowledge. walls and borders not so much /Derp

[Highmark]

2 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

Completely different story. Attacking known locations during pre invasion strikes and GWOT continuing operations are not the same thing. Troops in contact handle all air assets from the ground. End of story. But please, tell me more how it works. This was my shit. I’m not trying to wave it around in your face, but this is what I did. It’s how it is.

I guess I'm just shocked that our planes/attack helicopters are only used in that manner in ground attacks.   Guess it probably was ROE in that theater.   

Edited April 24, 2019 by Highmark

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

4 minutes ago, Highmark said:

I guess I'm just shocked that our planes/attack helicopters are only used in that manner in ground attacks.   Guess it probably was ROE in that theater.   

You have to remember the kill radius of a GBU is hundreds of meters depending on its size. All ground targets look the same from the air. There is some serious deconfliction needed. I shouldn’t also say never. There have obviously been one off’s where fixed or rotary were firing on targets from command direction in a toc. It just isn’t the case for 99% of the time.  

[DriftBusta]

13 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

You have to remember the kill radius of a GBU is hundreds of meters depending on its size. All ground targets look the same from the air. There is some serious deconfliction needed. I shouldn’t also say never. There have obviously been one off’s where fixed or rotary were firing on targets from command direction in a toc. It just isn’t the case for 99% of the time.  

Good poasts.  

[AKIQPilot]

42 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

Most of them are based off some intel directing them to a place. Whether that is intel from foreign agents, us assets, etc. But yes, the drone program from the CIA doesn’t require ground approval for hellfires. Every single fixed wing craft in this story, however, had a direct command from a ground based asset.

Are drones used to identify targets for fixed/rotary winged assets and missiles?  

Edited April 24, 2019 by AKIQPilot

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

1 minute ago, AKIQPilot said:

Are drones used to identify targets for fixed/rotary winged assets and missiles?  

Not really. I’m sure they could. I’ve never seen that. Drones are useful for command and control for fixed and rotary. It helps with the overall picture on the ground. The pilots can hijack the drone feed and run it separate from their own view. Basically doubling cameras and situational awareness. The best part is ground guys like JTACs can view the fixed and rotary pilot’s cameras on a tablet. That’s when it gets fun. Easier to communicate and walk them on target. Plus you get to watch shit get ass raped like TV. 

[f7ben]

1 minute ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

Not really. I’m sure they could. I’ve never seen that. Drones are useful for command and control for fixed and rotary. It helps with the overall picture on the ground. The pilots can hijack the drone feed and run it separate from their own view. Basically doubling cameras and situational awareness. The best part is ground guys like JTACs can view the fixed and rotary pilot’s cameras on a tablet. That’s when it gets fun. Easier to communicate and walk them on target. Plus you get to watch shit get ass raped like TV. 

This is why we dont need a fucking military. Take kids with average intelligence and send them out in to the world to be exposed to senseless violence from a distance. It's a fucking complete shock we dont have way more soldiers committing atrocities here.

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

2 minutes ago, f7ben said:

This is why we dont need a fucking military. Take kids with average intelligence and send them out in to the world to be exposed to senseless violence from a distance. It's a fucking complete shock we dont have way more soldiers committing atrocities here.

True. Very true. I’m always surprised how resilient people are. How many people saw some serious shit, and are 100% ok. 

[f7ben]

2 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

True. Very true. I’m always surprised how resilient people are. How many people saw some serious shit, and are 100% ok. 

Obviously I meant dont need a military in the current sense. Not as a whole

 

[steve from amherst]

6 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

True. Very true. I’m always surprised how resilient people are. How many people saw some serious shit, and are 100% ok. 

But are they really ok? I have a bud did many yrs special ops. Face to face he seems fine. But cant help but wonder if some day he just comes unglued 

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

3 minutes ago, steve from amherst said:

But are they really ok? I have a bud did many yrs special ops. Face to face he seems fine. But cant help but wonder if some day he just comes unglued 

The media/Hollywood has turned my generation of soldiers into fragile little things. It just isn’t the case. Of course there are those messed up, but it isn’t as bad as depicted.