racer254 Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 Fucking light bulb salesmen!!! Stargazers from around the globe gathered at the Grand Canyon this week to gander upon our galaxy’s grandeur. The national park is hosting its annual star party, an eight-night event inviting the public to observe the heavens free from blinding city lights and street lamps. “As the sky gets darker after sunset you start to notice something on the eastern horizon that at first you think are storm clouds,” said John Barentine, an astronomer and program manager at the International Dark-Sky Association, a nonprofit group that raises awareness to light pollution. “Then as it gets darker you realize they aren’t clouds in our atmosphere, but they are glowing clouds of stars.” What he and thousands of visitors witnessed was a sight hidden to many: The Milky Way. “One third of humanity cannot see the Milky Way,” said Fabio Falchi a researcher from the nonprofit organization the Light Pollution Science and Technology Institute in Italy. “It is the first time in human history that we have lost the direct contact with the night sky.” Mr. Falchi and a cohort of dark-night knights have spent the last year creating an interactive world atlas that shows the global effect of artificial light on how most of us see the sky after the sun sets. They released the map to the public on Friday in the journal Science Advances. The new atlas is an improved version of their original one, which was released in 2001. The color-coded map, using data collected by the Suomi NPP satellite, quantifies the brightness of the night sky across the world, ranging from dark, pristine views like that over the ocean, to major cities where artificial light has completely obliterated the natural darkness. By comparing the brightness atlas with population density maps, the team found that light pollution affects 80 percent of the world’s population, and that two out of three Europeans and four out of five Americans live in areas where light masks the Milky Way. The hearts of major cities like London, Las Vegas and Tokyo are white hot on the atlas, while their neighboring suburbs are covered in splotches of orange, red, magenta and pink. Places like the Grand Canyon and most of Africa and Australia are colored in black, gray and dark blue. “It demonstrates just how far lights from large metropolitan areas spread through the atmosphere,” said Dan M. Duriscoe, a physical scientist from the National Park Service, who contributed to the atlas. “Observers on the ground hundreds of kilometers away are still under the influence of that light.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sear Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Thanks r2. I can see the Milky Way from my house, and have seen Aurora Borealis from here too. I needed binoculars to see the moons of Jupiter. There's expense involved, but there is a light pollution reduction movement underway. It's making progress. "Keep looking up!" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 7 minutes ago, sear said: Thanks r2. I can see the Milky Way from my house, and have seen Aurora Borealis from here too. I needed binoculars to see the moons of Jupiter. There's expense involved, but there is a light pollution reduction movement underway. It's making progress. "Keep looking up!" It's the only way guys like snowbeavis will understand that these movements are a bunch of bullshit and actually hurt middle class workers of this great nation. It has to hit him right where he will feel it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sear Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 "these movements ... actually hurt middle class workers" r2 Oh? In what way? By fortunate coincidence, LED technology continues to improve. So we can kill 3 birds with one stone: - upgrade to more energy efficient LED - reduce waste (lighting the sky is foolish, direct the light downward, and save energy & $$$) - LED is low maintenance. Many have a MTBF spec. of 40,000 hrs. or more. That means fewer dangerous trips up the ladder to "change bulbs". And btw: doing these light-pollution reducing upgrades helps the workers paid to do the work. So rather than "hurt" them (your assertion), it helps them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 23 minutes ago, sear said: Oh? In what way? By fortunate coincidence, LED technology continues to improve. So we can kill 3 birds with one stone: - upgrade to more energy efficient LED - reduce waste (lighting the sky is foolish, direct the light downward, and save energy & $$$) - LED is low maintenance. Many have a MTBF spec. of 40,000 hrs. or more. That means fewer dangerous trips up the ladder to "change bulbs". And btw: doing these light-pollution reducing upgrades helps the workers paid to do the work. So rather than "hurt" them (your assertion), it helps them. LOL. Whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT MXZ XRS Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 I was just at the Grand Canyon 4 weeks ago yesterday. The view of the stars was absolutely amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sear Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Welcome home SR. I heard a NASA astronaut talking about seeing stars. He said the view from an excellent viewing location on Earth is about as good from space. I was surprised. I thought, without an atmosphere, the view from a shuttle or the ISS would just be awash of white dots. He said no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mileage Psycho Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 9 hours ago, racer254 said: LOL. Whatever. You are clueless as usual, sear on the other is educated on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 23 minutes ago, Mileage Psycho said: You are clueless as usual, sear on the other is educated on the subject. I thought SR was the expert on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mileage Psycho Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Just now, ArcticCrusher said: I thought SR was the expert on this subject. He should be for sure. Today outdoor lighting is being designed and specified to only light an area for safety and comfort, as an example notice the difference in a gas station that has been recently built or has undergone a lighting retrofit as compared to a gas station that was built or more years ago, the same would apply to shopping malls as an obvious example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 17 minutes ago, Mileage Psycho said: He should be for sure. Today outdoor lighting is being designed and specified to only light an area for safety and comfort, as an example notice the difference in a gas station that has been recently built or has undergone a lighting retrofit as compared to a gas station that was built or more years ago, the same would apply to shopping malls as an obvious example. What is the education requirement to be a lightbulb salesman or is it learn in the field career? I have no issue with the cost savings measures, but when we all of cut our consumption in half, the utilities will not hold those rates, cause they always need to make more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 10 hours ago, racer254 said: LOL. Whatever. You have the brains of a giant lump... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sear Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 AC #11 It's gotten more complicated. Simple incandescent bulbs didn't vary much, Tungsten, Halogen, & wattage. LED can vary in efficiency, and hue. The hue is quantified in degrees Kelvin. http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/1eb15b4263109d7ff87f060e1b814707388658a.jpg[/img] http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/1eb15b4263109d7ff87f060e1b814707388658a.jpg The most important lights in my home are 12 VDC and run directly off my uninterruptible power supply (UPS). I live in the forest. When the commercial power fails as it occasionally does, the lights I need stay on. They don't even flicker. My days of stumbling around in the dark looking for a flashlight during a commercial power failure are gone forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member SnowRider Posted October 1, 2016 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted October 1, 2016 1 hour ago, ArcticCrusher said: I thought SR was the expert on this subject. 49 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said: What is the education requirement to be a lightbulb salesman or is it learn in the field career? I have no issue with the cost savings measures, but when we all of cut our consumption in half, the utilities will not hold those rates, cause they always need to make more. There's a lot of people in the field with advanced degrees and nobody I know without a Bachelors. Spill, glare, candela distribution, controls, etc are all important components of almost every project. In fact our ability to understand the very issues Freeloader is chastising have made us the dominate player in the market and the transition to LED will only strengthen our already strong position. I've done several LED projects already and have more on the way. Captiol costs are now palatable compared to HID light sources. Besides - I've never sold a light bulb in my life. A couple pics of LED and HID in the real world. Notice the spill and glare control and quality of light on the field. The baseball fields are LED, the football field is HID, and the last one is a competitor - with about 5% market share......and an example of a poor system. Perhaps Freeloader would like the last facility near his home..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold War Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 He taught me everything I know about outdoor illumination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sear Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 #14 Very impressive. - Do you know the "mean time before fail" rating on the baseball field LED? - What's HID? (I've got some motorcyclist buds that prefer HID, but I never found out what it is) Did you know that the hue of light an LED emits influences its power consumption? Some hues are much less energy consuming than some others. For more on that, check out superbrightLED.com I bought strings of white light LEDs from them, and expect a delivery from them early next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 1 hour ago, Anler said: You have the brains of a giant lump... Now I feel like snowbeavis. "moving the needle." Fucking light pollution!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sear Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 #16 PS Can you give us some idea of either the power draw to illuminate a football field that well; and or (depending on the local kW / hr standard) what it costs to illuminate such a stadium for a night game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member SnowRider Posted October 1, 2016 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted October 1, 2016 2 minutes ago, sear said: #14 Very impressive. - Do you know the "mean time before fail" rating on the baseball field LED? - What's HID? (I've got some motorcyclist buds that prefer HID, but I never found out what it is) Did you know that the hue of light an LED emits influences its power consumption? Some hues are much less energy consuming than some others. For more on that, check out superbrightLED.com I bought strings of white light LEDs from them, and expect a delivery from them early next week. The weakness with the LED system is the drivers. The fixtures will last 50,000+ hours which is inconsequential on facilities where hours of usage are 100, 200, 300+ hours. In southern states usage approaches 1000 hours/year. HID is rated at 5000 hours but we are using 1500 watt lamps. 400 watt HID lamps have longer rated lamp life ranging from 20,000 - 24,000 hours. I don't know the rated life for an HID lamp used for motorcycles but it has to be long enough to not be a concern. There are numerous studies - mostly interior - about the effects of LED color temp for learning, therapy, recovery, relaxation, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member SnowRider Posted October 1, 2016 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted October 1, 2016 11 minutes ago, sear said: #16 PS Can you give us some idea of either the power draw to illuminate a football field that well; and or (depending on the local kW / hr standard) what it costs to illuminate such a stadium for a night game? The average KW for that field usimg HID is about 70KW. Cost depends on the local rate and in WI it varies from .08 - .10. The football field costs about $5.50/hour to operate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member SnowRider Posted October 1, 2016 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted October 1, 2016 19 minutes ago, racer254 said: Now I feel like snowbeavis. "moving the needle." Fucking light pollution!!!! It's a real issue for many neighbors and communities. In fact almost every community has a lighting ordinance. Your ignorance and stupidity are on full display for all to see. Congrats 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sear Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 LED stands for "Light Emitting Diode". What does HID stand for? Most of the lights in my home are LED, either 12 VDC or 120 VAC. With my "energy star" refrigerator, I often manage to keep my commercial power bill below $30.oo / month. I'm curious what it costs to light a stadium for the night (a game). A football game takes 3 hours (NFL games get stretched out for commercial breaks), but the spectator gates open an hour or two early so fans can $splash $money at the concession stands before they're seated. And I doubt they shut the lights off until an hour or two after the game ends. I simply don't know the quantification, in lumens, candle-power, wattage, or the universal standard: $dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member SnowRider Posted October 1, 2016 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted October 1, 2016 2 minutes ago, sear said: LED stands for "Light Emitting Diode". What does HID stand for? Most of the lights in my home are LED, either 12 VDC or 120 VAC. With my "energy star" refrigerator, I often manage to keep my commercial power bill below $30.oo / month. I'm curious what it costs to light a stadium for the night (a game). A football game takes 3 hours (NFL games get stretched out for commercial breaks), but the spectator gates open an hour or two early so fans can $splash $money at the concession stands before they're seated. And I doubt they shut the lights off until an hour or two after the game ends. I simply don't know the quantification, in lumens, candle-power, wattage, or the universal standard: $dollars. High Intensity Discharge.....Metal Halide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticCrusher Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 8 minutes ago, sear said: LED stands for "Light Emitting Diode". What does HID stand for? Most of the lights in my home are LED, either 12 VDC or 120 VAC. With my "energy star" refrigerator, I often manage to keep my commercial power bill below $30.oo / month. I'm curious what it costs to light a stadium for the night (a game). A football game takes 3 hours (NFL games get stretched out for commercial breaks), but the spectator gates open an hour or two early so fans can $splash $money at the concession stands before they're seated. And I doubt they shut the lights off until an hour or two after the game ends. I simply don't know the quantification, in lumens, candle-power, wattage, or the universal standard: $dollars. Nice that you can read a data sheet. Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer254 Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 (edited) 30 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said: Nice that you can read a data sheet. Lol. Edited October 1, 2016 by racer254 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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