Florida lawmakers might not give voting rights back to felons, even though 64% of voters want them to

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

I’m for having all rights restored after doing your time. Not just voting. 2nd too. 

[Highmark]

11 minutes ago, Highmark said:

If you’re not willing to follow the law, at least certain ones, then you should not have a role in making the law for everyone else, which is what you do when you vote — either directly (in the case of a referendum or ballot initiative) or indirectly (by choosing lawmakers and law enforcers).

Bet few here disagree with taking a violent felon's 2nd amendment rights away.   Justice doesn't have to end when you get out of Prison.   

 

 

4 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

I’m for having all rights restored after doing your time. Not just voting. 2nd too. 

Nope.   Rehabilitation is impossible with some.   Should we allow convicted pedophiles to teach kids?   How about someone with Munchhausen Syndrome to be doctors or nurses again? Certain crimes call for certain punishment that lasts beyond prison.  

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

5 minutes ago, Highmark said:

 

Nope.   Rehabilitation is impossible with some.   Should we allow convicted pedophiles to teach kids?   How about someone with Munchhausen Syndrome to be doctors or nurses again? Certain crimes call for certain punishment that lasts beyond prison.  

Then that’s part of the punishment. Make it that way. Like they do for pedofiles and how they must identify themselves.. Taking the right to bear arms should be done via court decision. Meaning it can be appealed. 

[Highmark]

1 minute ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

Then that’s part of the punishment. Make it that way. Like they do for pedofiles and how they must identify themselves.. Taking the right to bear arms should be done via court decision. Meaning it can be appealed. 

Felon's have to identify themselves on Job applications and it is part of the punishment, that's why its being discussed.   Very few people don't know if they become a felon they lose their right to vote.   The court did decide to take away the right to the 2nd amendment upon conviction.  

Edited December 19, 2018 by Highmark

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

1 minute ago, Highmark said:

Felon's have to identify themselves on Job applications and it is part of the punishment, that's why its being discussed.   Very few people don't know if they become a felon they lose their right to vote.   The court did decide to take away the right to the 2nd amendment upon conviction.  

Court is wrong on the 2nd. Should be case by case with ability to appeal. Right to vote being stripped should be restored when your time is served for all criminals. If you can walk the streets, you should be able to vote. Pedo, rapist, murderer, tax cheat, doesn’t matter. 

[Highmark]

Just now, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

Court is wrong on the 2nd. Should be case by case with ability to appeal. Right to vote being stripped should be restored when your time is served for all criminals. If you can walk the streets, you should be able to vote. Pedo, rapist, murderer, tax cheat, doesn’t matter. 

Agree to disagree.  

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

Just now, Highmark said:

Agree to disagree.  

Agreed.

[SnowRider]

On 12/17/2018 at 7:12 PM, motonoggin said:

Shit, they tried to undo parts of the legal cannabis initiative here in MI in the lame duck. They also made it harder to get ballot initiatives on the ballot. And rammed a new tunnel under the straits down our throats.

Next ballot initiative will be to eliminate the lame duck session altogether.

More examples in this thread of both sides being the same.  Quit your bitching.....and enjoy life on Fantasy Island  

[NaturallyAspirated]

8 hours ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

I’m for having all rights restored after doing your time. Not just voting. 2nd too. 

I concur.

Neal

[steve from amherst]

8 hours ago, Highmark said:

Felon's have to identify themselves on Job applications and it is part of the punishment, that's why its being discussed.   Very few people don't know if they become a felon they lose their right to vote.   The court did decide to take away the right to the 2nd amendment upon conviction.  

Seems like you are viewing this as a normal person who commits a felony. That's obviously not the case as Im willing to bet 85% of felons were not politicly engaged or even educated at time of said felony. AKA most of them are fucking morons.

[ActionfigureJoe]

Paying one’s debt to society ends after the punishment and supervision phase is over. Carrying restrictions of the vote beyond that serves no purpose, except for political gain.  Let’s be truthful here. 

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

1 hour ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

Paying one’s debt to society ends after the punishment and supervision phase is over. Carrying restrictions of the vote beyond that serves no purpose, except for political gain.  Let’s be truthful here. 

Exactly. This is about race at the end of the day. While R’s don’t like admitting a disproportionate number of POC’s are incarcerated when talking about the Justice System, they sure as shit don’t like admitting they don’t want felons to vote for the same reason. 

[Highmark]

2 hours ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

Paying one’s debt to society ends after the punishment and supervision phase is over. Carrying restrictions of the vote beyond that serves no purpose, except for political gain.  Let’s be truthful here. 

So a convicted pedophile should be able to get a teaching license?  

Edited December 19, 2018 by Highmark

[XCR1250]

On 12/17/2018 at 7:37 PM, Ez ryder said:

imho a felon should not be allowed to vote for at least 10 yrs with no other convictions .

 

I think it should depend on what kind of Felony, say outrunning a Cop in your car, it's a Felony but those type crimes shouldn't stop a person from being able to vote, killing someone during road rage-different story. IMO.

[ActionfigureJoe]

26 minutes ago, Highmark said:

So a convicted pedophile should be able to get a teaching license?  

This is about voting rights. Start a different thread about pedos and teaching. 

[Highmark]

2 minutes ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

This is about voting rights. Start a different thread about pedos and teaching. 

No its about losing rights after being convicted of a crime.   Its all one in the same.  

[Highmark]

10 minutes ago, XCR1250 said:

I think it should depend on what kind of Felony, say outrunning a Cop in your car, it's a Felony but those type crimes shouldn't stop a person from being able to vote, killing someone during road rage-different story. IMO.

I can completely agree that it should be held for more serious crimes.   Same with loss of 2nd amendment rights but I think its fair a just punishment for certain crimes.

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

Just now, Highmark said:

I can completely agree that it should be held for more serious crimes.   Same with loss of 2nd amendment rights but I think its fair a just punishment for certain crimes.

Can I ask where in the Constitution that sort of legal guidance is found?  

[Highmark]

3 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

Can I ask where in the Constitution that sort of legal guidance is found?  

Can I ask where in the constitution me paying a higher rate of taxes the more money I make is found?   Or how about Obamacare targeting certain industries for tax to pay for it?  Equal protection under the law is probably the most abused of them all.

That same statement could be asked on why its legal to stop pedophiles from obtaining a teaching license.  

If its unconstitutional has anyone ever taken it before the courts?  Yes I know that doesn't mean its been ruled properly either but it makes it legal.  

Edited December 19, 2018 by Highmark

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

53 minutes ago, Highmark said:

Can I ask where in the constitution me paying a higher rate of taxes the more money I make is found?   Or how about Obamacare targeting certain industries for tax to pay for it?  Equal protection under the law is probably the most abused of them all.

That same statement could be asked on why its legal to stop pedophiles from obtaining a teaching license.  

If its unconstitutional has anyone ever taken it before the courts?  Yes I know that doesn't mean its been ruled properly either but it makes it legal.  

Oh. So we are doing what-about-isms and not talking about the topic at hand? Where in the Constitution does it say someone’s right to vote can be infringed on? You either follow the Constitution or you don’t. It’s simple. 

[Highmark]

8 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

Oh. So we are doing what-about-isms and not talking about the topic at hand? Where in the Constitution does it say someone’s right to vote can be infringed on? You either follow the Constitution or you don’t. It’s simple. 

14th Amendment.    Its quite clear actually and left up to the states.

Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

1. Its state by state not Federal law.

• In Maine and Vermont, felons never lose their right to vote, even while they are incarcerated. 
• In 14 states and the District of Columbia, felons lose their voting rights only while incarcerated, and receive automatic restoration upon release.
• In 22 states, felons lose their voting rights during incarceration, and for a period of time after, typically while on parole and/or probation. Voting rights are automatically restored after this time period. Former felons may also have to pay any outstanding fines, fees or restitution before their rights are restored as well. 
• In 12 states felons lose their voting rights indefinitely for some crimes, or require a governor’s pardon in order for voting rights to be restored, or face an additional waiting period after completion of sentence (including parole and probation) before voting rights can be restored. These states are listed in the fourth category on Table 1. Details on these states are found in Table 2 below.
• http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/felon-voting-rights.aspx

 2.  If its unconstitutional after they are released why isn't it unconstitutional when incarcerated?

3.  In the U.S., the Constitution implicitly permits the states to adopt rules about disenfranchisement "for participation in rebellion, or other crime", by the Fourteenth Amendment, section 2. It is up to the states to decide which crimes could be grounds for disenfranchisement, and they are not formally bound to restrict this to felonies; however, in most cases, they do.^{[citation needed]} Felons who have completed their sentences are allowed to vote in most U.S. states. Between 1996 and 2008 twenty-eight states changed their laws on felon voting rights, mostly to restore rights or to simplify the process of restoration. Since 2008 state laws have continued to shift, both curtailing and restoring voter rights, sometimes over short periods of time within the same state.^[8]

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement}

Edited December 19, 2018 by Highmark

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

And where does it say those rights are gone after punishment served? 

[Highmark]

Just now, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

And where does it say those rights are gone after punishment served? 

Jesus Neal it doesn't have to say it anymore than it does.   Right or wrong that's how its looked at or been ruled by the supreme court.   

 the Constitution implicitly permits the states to adopt rules about disenfranchisement "for participation in rebellion, or other crime"

[ActionfigureJoe]

1 hour ago, Highmark said:

No its about losing rights after being convicted of a crime.   Its all one in the same.  

Comparing a pedophile receiving a teaching license to getting voting rights returned is idiotic. My god 

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

8 minutes ago, Highmark said:

Jesus Neal it doesn't have to say it anymore than it does.   Right or wrong that's how its looked at or been ruled by the supreme court.   

 the Constitution implicitly permits the states to adopt rules about disenfranchisement "for participation in rebellion, or other crime"

That is vague and does not specify voting rights removed for life.