Spinfry might be on to something...

[Anler]

The United States has and continues to prove it is an unreliable negotiating partner. China just may team up with other victims of US fuckery and collectively tell us to fuck off. When I say us I dont mean you and I, I mean the fucktards who continue to drive us to ruin... 

What do Russia, Turkey and Iran have in common? All are on the receiving end of punitive action by the United States over allegations of misbehavior that have not been demonstrated. Nobody has shown that Russia poisoned the Skripals, Turkey just might have a case that the Reverend Brunson was in contact with coup plotters, and Iran is in full compliance with the nuclear arms agreement signed in 2015. One has to conclude that the United States has now become the ultimate angry imperial power, lashing out with the only thing that seems to work – its ability to interfere in and control financial markets – to punish nations that do not play by its rules.

 

< Older

America the Punitive

written by philip giraldi

friday august 17, 2018

There has been a dramatic shift in how the United States government carries out its business internationally. Admittedly, Washington has had a tendency to employ force to get what it has wanted ever since 9/11, but it also sometimes recognized that other countries had legitimate interests and accepted there was a place for diplomacy to resolve issues short of armed conflict. The Bush Administration reluctance to broaden its engagement in the Middle East after it recognized that it had blundered with Iraq followed by Obama’s relaxation of tensions with Cuba and his negotiation of a nuclear agreement with Iran demonstrated that sanity sometimes prevailed in the West Wing.

That willingness to be occasionally accommodating has changed dramatically, with the State Department under Mike Pompeo currently more prone to deliver threats than any suggestions that we all might try to get along. It would be reasonable enough to criticize such behavior because it is intrinsically wrong, but the truly frightening aspect of it would appear to be that it is based on the essentially neoconservative assumption that other countries will always back down when confronted with force majeure and that the use of violence as a tool in international relations is, ultimately, consequence free.

I am particularly disturbed with the consequence free part as it in turn is rooted in the belief that countries that have been threatened or even invaded have no collective memory of what occurred and will not respond vengefully when the situation changes. There have been a number of stunningly mindless acts of aggression over the past several weeks that are particularly troubling as they suggest that they will produce many more problems down the road than solutions.

The most recent is the new sanctioning of Russia over the Skripal poisoning in Salisbury England. For those not following developments, last week Washington abruptly and without any new evidence being presented, imposed additional trade sanctions on Russia in the belief that Moscow ordered and carried out the poisoning of Sergey Skripal and his daughter Yulia on March 4th. The report of the new sanctions was particularly surprising as Yulia Skripal has recently announced that she intends to return to her home in Russia, leading to the conclusion that even one of the alleged victims does not believe the narrative being promoted by the British and American governments.

Though Russian President Vladimir Putin has responded with restraint, avoiding a tit-for-tat, he is reported to be angry about the new move by the US government and now believes it to be an unreliable negotiating partner. Considering the friendly recent exchanges between Putin and Trump, the punishment of Russia has to be viewed as something of a surprise, suggesting that the president of the United States may not be in control of his own foreign policy.

Turkey is also feeling America’s wrath over the continued detention of an American Protestant Pastor Andrew Brunson by Ankara over charges that he was connected to the coup plotters of 2016, which were allegedly directed by Fetullah Gulen, a Muslim religious leader, who now resides in Pennsylvania. Donald Trump has made the detention the centerpiece of his Turkish policy, introducing sanctions and tariffs that have led in part to a collapse of the Turkish lira and a run on the banking system which could easily lead to default and grave damage to European banks that hold a large party of the country’s debt.

And then there is perennial favorite Iran, which was hit with reinstated sanctions last week and is confronting a ban on oil sales scheduled to go into effect on November 4th. The US has said it will sanction any country that buys Iranian oil after that date, though a number of governments including Turkey, India and China appear to be prepared to defy that demand. Several European countries are reportedly preparing mechanisms that will allow them to trade around US restrictions.

What do Russia, Turkey and Iran have in common? All are on the receiving end of punitive action by the United States over allegations of misbehavior that have not been demonstrated. Nobody has shown that Russia poisoned the Skripals, Turkey just might have a case that the Reverend Brunson was in contact with coup plotters, and Iran is in full compliance with the nuclear arms agreement signed in 2015. One has to conclude that the United States has now become the ultimate angry imperial power, lashing out with the only thing that seems to work – its ability to interfere in and control financial markets – to punish nations that do not play by its rules. 

Given Washington’s diminishing clout worldwide, it is a situation that is unsustainable and which will ultimately only really punish the American people as the United States becomes more isolated and its imperial overreach bankrupts the nation. As America weakens, Russia, Turkey, Iran and all the other countries that have been steamrolled by Washington will likely seek revenge. To avoid that, a dramatic course correction by the US is needed, but, unfortunately, is unlikely to take place.

[Angry ginger]

9 minutes ago, Nazipigdog said:

The United States has and continues to prove it is an unreliable negotiating partner. China just may team up with other victims of US fuckery and collectively tell us to fuck off. When I say us I dont mean you and I, I mean the fucktards who continue to drive us to ruin... 

What do Russia, Turkey and Iran have in common? All are on the receiving end of punitive action by the United States over allegations of misbehavior that have not been demonstrated. Nobody has shown that Russia poisoned the Skripals, Turkey just might have a case that the Reverend Brunson was in contact with coup plotters, and Iran is in full compliance with the nuclear arms agreement signed in 2015. One has to conclude that the United States has now become the ultimate angry imperial power, lashing out with the only thing that seems to work – its ability to interfere in and control financial markets – to punish nations that do not play by its rules.

 

.

wow angry and lashing out,  who'd ahve thoguht that would happen with a guy liek Trump at the helm but that seems to be what 40% of americans want  

[Zambroski]

Spinner isn't onto anything other than showing Americans where our real weakness lies.  Countries will (and have) use our own weak citizens to fight us.  If we're gonna get it to the point of a "us against the world" (we aren't close yet) then, we need to cull the homefront of sad sacking America haters first.

ALL FUCKING HIPPIES MUST FUCKING HANG!!!!!

 

 

[SnowRider]

Just now, Zambroski said:

Spinner isn't onto anything other than showing Americans where our real weakness lies.  Countries will (and have) use our own weak citizens to fight us.  If we're gonna get it to the point of a "us against the world" (we aren't close yet) then, we need to cull the homefront of sad sacking America haters first.

ALL FUCKING HIPPIES MUST FUCKING HANG!!!!!

 

 

You’d be among the first to be culled 👍

[Zambroski]

1 minute ago, SnowRider said:

You’d be among the first to be culled 👍

Really?  By whom?  You aren't still thinking your "body bag" line is going to really hold water, do you?  Yeah...prolly. 

The horrifying truth will come to your door should we be so lucky to get to the point of "culling".

[SnowRider]

2 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

Really?  By whom?  You aren't still thinking your "body bag" line is going to really hold water, do you?  Yeah...prolly. 

The horrifying truth will come to your door should we be so lucky to get to the point of "culling".

Take your fantasies and STFU 👍 Dude you’re a joke on here......and you’re a Repug in the majority.....a.m. do still a joke  

You scare no one on here.  In fact - you come across as the fucker who’s scared.. .... 

[Zambroski]

Just now, SnowRider said:

Take your fantasies and STFU 👍 Dude you’re a joke on here......and you’re a Repug in the majority.....a.m. do still a joke  

You scare no one on here.  In fact - you come across as the fucker who’s scared.. .... 

 

[01mxz800]

4 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

Really?  By whom?  You aren't still thinking your "body bag" line is going to really hold water, do you?  Yeah...prolly. 

The horrifying truth will come to your door should we be so lucky to get to the point of "culling".

While I would love for you to to just get it done instead of all the interwebs ramboism, I would feel bad about you slapping around what appears to be a victim of downs syndrome

[Zambroski]

4 minutes ago, 01mxz800 said:

While I would love for you to to just get it done instead of all the interwebs ramboism, I would feel bad about you slapping around what appears to be a victim of downs syndrome

Yeah.  I actually think about that too.  Seriously.  

[Ez ryder]

34 minutes ago, SnowRider said:

Take your fantasies and STFU 👍 Dude you’re a joke on here......and you’re a Repug in the majority.....a.m. do still a joke  

You scare no one on here.  In fact - you come across as the fucker who’s scared.. .... 

it is so cute when you fail at being a tough guy . 

[Skidooski]

[Anler]

1 hour ago, Angry ginger said:

wow angry and lashing out,  who'd ahve thoguht that would happen with a guy liek Trump at the helm but that seems to be what 40% of americans want  

I dont even know if this is Trump's doing. Obviously the Iran shit is but he acted like he was making nicey with Putin and now this? And this shit was always in the works, even before Trump. 

[ActionfigureJoe]

9 minutes ago, Nazipigdog said:

I dont even know if this is Trump's doing. Obviously the Iran shit is but he acted like he was making nicey with Putin and now this? And this shit was always in the works, even before Trump. 

It’s all trump. There’s no consistent message coming from this administration. Mexico and the US are on the verge of a rewritten nafta. Watch as he scuttles it. The man is truly a loon. 

[Anler]

52 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

Spinner isn't onto anything other than showing Americans where our real weakness lies.  Countries will (and have) use our own weak citizens to fight us.  If we're gonna get it to the point of a "us against the world" (we aren't close yet) then, we need to cull the homefront of sad sacking America haters first.

ALL FUCKING HIPPIES MUST FUCKING HANG!!!!!

 

 

I highly doubt anyone is coming to "fight us" and pitting us against each other serves those who wish to under mind us be it our own govt or others. Nobody benefits from that.

If enough of them get together and collectively say "fuck you" they can continue to trade and do whatever they want, including adopting their own universal currency which would highly under mind ours especially with our outrageous debt. In THAT case I think a case for war would be initiated by US. We could operate independently as we have many resources but that debt is our biggest and most vulnerable weakness. And seeing as how most of the EU hates us now, team up with China, Russia, Iran, Turkey and the rest of the middle east (except Israel and Saudis), Africa, South and Central America and even beta Canada... That could get interesting... 

Dont get me wrong, I dont give a fuck about any of them, especially China but everyone is getting tired of our global fuckery that really isnt in our best interest (ours meaning the US citizens) but rather the interests of the world banks efforts to control global commodities for their own exploitation. In the end we do the fighting and we suffer the consequences. 

[Zambroski]

1 minute ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

It’s all trump. There’s no consistent message coming from this administration. Mexico and the US are on the verge of a rewritten nafta. Watch as he scuttles it. The man is truly a loon. 

This is what happens when you allow a biased media to have more transparancy than any other administraion in history.  Personally, I say nix it.

The message is consistant.  MAGA and America First.  The road to get there is full of forward and backward movements.

[Anler]

3 minutes ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

It’s all trump. There’s no consistent message coming from this administration. Mexico and the US are on the verge of a rewritten nafta. Watch as he scuttles it. The man is truly a loon. 

Trump definitely has a role in it but The sanctions against Russia and Turkey I think have been part of something since before Trump. Trump cant do it all by himself. 

[ActionfigureJoe]

1 minute ago, Nazipigdog said:

Trump definitely has a role in it but The sanctions against Russia and Turkey I think have been part of something since before Trump. Trump cant do it all by himself. 

Trump is the issue. His message is all over the map. It’s only going to get worse. 

[Zambroski]

2 minutes ago, Nazipigdog said:

I highly doubt anyone is coming to "fight us" and pitting us against each other serves those who wish to under mind us be it our own govt or others. Nobody benefits from that.

If enough of them get together and collectively say "fuck you" they can continue to trade and do whatever they want, including adopting their own universal currency which would highly under mind ours especially with our outrageous debt. In THAT case I think a case for war would be initiated by US. We could operate independently as we have many resources but that debt is our biggest and most vulnerable weakness. And seeing as how most of the EU hates us now, team up with China, Russia, Iran, Turkey and the rest of the middle east (except Israel and Saudis), Africa, South and Central America and even beta Canada... That could get interesting... 

Dont get me wrong, I dont give a fuck about any of them, especially China but everyone is getting tired of our global fuckery that really isnt in our best interest (ours meaning the US citizens) but rather the interests of the world banks efforts to control global commodities for their own exploitation. In the end we do the fighting and we suffer the consequences. 

They can do what they want.  I don't expect us to do what we are doing (Putting America First) and not expect them to do the same.  If that means we are no longer inportant to them...so be it.  Problem is, I know we are.  VERY important to them.  In the end, this will all get hammered out and we will have fairer trade and more money from others to be the world's police force.  It's time for it to be fair.

I'm all for us pulling out from anywhere that doesn't want us there.  But I know, most do.  In fact, all do or, we wouldn't be there.  But it's time for the world to pony up and pay for it.  I just hate that there is no replacement for our troops.  They pay the most and no amount of money is worth it.  The world is full of panzies that can't fight their own causes.

[Zambroski]

1 minute ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

Trump is the issue. His message is all over the map. It’s only going to get worse. 

IMPEACH!!!!!

Stop being such a yutz.  Just because your party wants you to be one, doesn't mean you have to be.

[Anler]

2 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

They can do what they want.  I don't expect us to do what we are doing (Putting America First) and not expect them to do the same.  If that means we are no longer inportant to them...so be it.  Problem is, I know we are.  VERY important to them.  In the end, this will all get hammered out and we will have fairer trade and more money from others to be the world's police force.  It's time for it to be fair.

I'm all for us pulling out from anywhere that doesn't want us there.  But I know, most do.  In fact, all do or, we wouldn't be there.  But it's time for the world to pony up and pay for it.  I just hate that there is no replacement for our troops.  They pay the most and no amount of money is worth it.  The world is full of panzies that can't fight their own causes.

There is no fight if we dont create it. Trump just honored some kid who got his legs blown off in Afghanistan. Why the fuck are we still in Afghanistan? 18 years now. Is there no objective but to get more kids fucked up? That is literally the most shithole country in the entire world. A literal sandpit of desolation and fucking misery. Those poor impoverished people have zero means to plan or do anything to us. GTFO already... 

[Zambroski]

Just now, Nazipigdog said:

There is no fight if we dont create it. Trump just honored some kid who got his legs blown off in Afghanistan. Why the fuck are we still in Afghanistan? 18 years now. Is there no objective but to get more kids fucked up? That is literally the most shithole country in the entire world. A literal sandpit of desolation and fucking misery. Those poor impoverished people have zero means to plan or do anything to us. GTFO already... 

Oh, there's always a fight.  I'm 100% for us pulling out of everywhere but I realize that isn't going to happen.  EVER.  I try to see the reasons and try to see the misery we'd leave behind and the hatred and blame we'd take from the world for actually just walking away as a reason to stay.  I just don't care anymore.  Our soldiers walking around missing limbs for 20 years has become so normal it's not even a big deal anymore????  Sad.

But, debt and war.  It's what we do...and probably what we will always do.  i don't like it...I just try to accept it.  What I am increasingly starting to hate with a passion is our lying IC (DoJ too).  I've always hated them but Trump has really unrolled out their little shit show in spades...and they are protecting themselves with a vengeance.  This should be of concern to all Americans.  What are they protecting themselves from?  Americans?  Yes.  Yes indeed.

 

[ActionfigureJoe]

5 minutes ago, Nazipigdog said:

There is no fight if we dont create it. Trump just honored some kid who got his legs blown off in Afghanistan. Why the fuck are we still in Afghanistan? 18 years now. Is there no objective but to get more kids fucked up? That is literally the most shithole country in the entire world. A literal sandpit of desolation and fucking misery. Those poor impoverished people have zero means to plan or do anything to us. GTFO already... 

Trump thinks he can win in Afghanistan. He even had an American task force meet with the Taliban right before they carried out numerous suicide bombings. He’s such a deal maker.  

[Zambroski]

4 minutes ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

Trump thinks he can win in Afghanistan. He even had an American task force meet with the Taliban right before they carried out numerous suicide bombings. He’s such a deal maker.  

Why didn't Obama think we could win?  Why didn't he pull the plug?  8 years and he didn't improve anything?  Weird.

[Anler]

16 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

Why didn't Obama think we could win?  Why didn't he pull the plug?  8 years and he didn't improve anything?  Weird.

What do we "win"? 

[Zambroski]

2 hours ago, Nazipigdog said:

What do we "win"? 

It’s not obvious? Freedom!!!!!....AND A LIFETIME SUPPLY OF RICE-A-RONI!!!

 

I don’t want to unpack it any further than that right now.