I may be liking this renewable heat a little too much...

[NaturallyAspirated]

35 minutes ago, Woodtick said:

Keep the glycol but have it tested annually to make sure you aren't growing anything.  It's a heavier fluid so your pump may use a bit more power.

Some shit was growing this fall, small mold/fungus on the ball that floats the level indicator.  I have been keeping an eye on it.  I did the proper amount of anti-corrosion, which I believe has some biological agents as well?  Perhaps I wasn't up to 1/3 glycol.

Perhaps I will do a high grade flush and make sure I am up to snuff on glycol.  

Neal

[steve from amherst]

1 hour ago, Snoslinger said:

we have a complex system as well, keep it at 67 all the time  wife and i are both cold temp lovers, but visitors from the south, not.

 

Fuck that. I want to wear shorts and a tank top yr round.

[NaturallyAspirated]

1 minute ago, steve from amherst said:

Fuck that. I want to wear shorts and a tank top yr round.

My endgame is to get the wife to walk around in the nude! 

Neal

[steve from amherst]

nothing wrong with that.

[ArcticCrusher]

1 hour ago, BOHICA said:

Sounds expensive.

In a real world practical application it is.  The instrumentation can get pricey.  Not when its a hobby and one can afford to place zero value on their time.

[NaturallyAspirated]

17 minutes ago, ArcticCrusher said:

In a real world practical application it is.  The instrumentation can get pricey.  Not when its a hobby and one can afford to place zero value on their time.

Ya I don't know the man hours I have into my coding and whatnot, but I know a naked wife running around may not even cover it! 

Neal

 

[Woodtick]

1 hour ago, NaturallyAspirated said:

Some shit was growing this fall, small mold/fungus on the ball that floats the level indicator.  I have been keeping an eye on it.  I did the proper amount of anti-corrosion, which I believe has some biological agents as well?  Perhaps I wasn't up to 1/3 glycol.

Perhaps I will do a high grade flush and make sure I am up to snuff on glycol.  

Neal

Take a sample and have it tested. It's a lot cheaper than flushing and starting over. You may be able to just add something to treat your solution. 

[Woodtick]

These are the pressure transducers I like to use. The come in all sorts of different ratings.

[NaturallyAspirated]

3 minutes ago, Woodtick said:

Take a sample and have it tested. It's a lot cheaper than flushing and starting over. You may be able to just add something to treat your solution. 

I think if I flushed I'd go to 100% water, some anti-corrosion and some biocide.  Perhaps a UV sanitizer.  Have you ever used one of those for killing organics?  They seem to work well in pools.

Neal

[NaturallyAspirated]

5 minutes ago, Woodtick said:

These are the pressure transducers I like to use. The come in all sorts of different ratings.

My system is open to atmosphere.  One of the reasons that it will be more susceptible to corrode and have organics. I have a few current loop/0-10 volt devices.  I have t get them all 0-10V and then divide that because arduino ADCs are 0-5VDC.

If you can find or recommend some 0-20 GPM ultrasonic flow meters for 1/2" - 1 1/4" I'd be all ears.  I imagine most of those are current loop or voltage based?

Neal

Edited December 21, 2017 by NaturallyAspirated

[Woodtick]

UV is for open loop systems. Over kill for a small closed loop system. You will need to put a flushing agent in it while you flush. Streight water won't do it. When you fill it, just use a closed loop treatment and you will be good to go.

[Woodtick]

I have to go drive, will post later.

[NaturallyAspirated]

Just now, Woodtick said:

UV is for open loop systems. Over kill for a small closed loop system. You will need to put a flushing agent in it while you flush. Streight water won't do it. When you fill it, just use a closed loop treatment and you will be good to go.

I'm not familiar with flushing agents, what do you recommend for that?  See above edit too.

Neal

[NaturallyAspirated]

Just now, Woodtick said:

I have to go drive, will post later.

Copy. 

Neal

[AKIQPilot]

Cool stuff Neal.  I definitely like your process flow diagram.  You do good work.  

My system is super simple.  Old 87% AFUE gas boiler.  Multiple zones.  Amtrol Boiler Mate. Zone valves. Smart tstats.  

The infloor heat allows us to keep the temp setpoints down much lower than you would expect and still have a very comfortable living space.  Daytime setpoint for most rooms are 66f and night time setpoints are 63.  My wife is always turning the temp down on the tstats.  I get text alerts when she sets it below 62.  

I'm sure no one will believe it but 66f and infloor heat is very comfortable.  

[SSFB]

10 minutes ago, AKIQPilot said:

Cool stuff Neal.  I definitely like your process flow diagram.  You do good work.  

My system is super simple.  Old 87% AFUE gas boiler.  Multiple zones.  Amtrol Boiler Mate. Zone valves. Smart tstats.  

The infloor heat allows us to keep the temp setpoints down much lower than you would expect and still have a very comfortable living space.  Daytime setpoint for most rooms are 66f and night time setpoints are 63.  My wife is always turning the temp down on the tstats.  I get text alerts when she sets it below 62.  

I'm sure no one will believe it but 66f and infloor heat is very comfortable.  

I believe it. I have my house set at 68. No in floor heat and it's a drafty house.

 

[NaturallyAspirated]

1 minute ago, AKIQPilot said:

Cool stuff Neal.  I definitely like your process flow diagram.  You do good work.  

My system is super simple.  Old 87% AFUE gas boiler.  Multiple zones.  Amtrol Boiler Mate. Zone valves. Smart tstats.  

The infloor heat allows us to keep the temp setpoints down much lower than you would expect and still have a very comfortable living space.  Daytime setpoint for most rooms are 66f and night time setpoints are 63.  My wife is always turning the temp down on the tstats.  I get text alerts when she sets it below 62.  

I'm sure no one will believe it but 66f and infloor heat is very comfortable.  

 

Thanks Tom I appreciate that from you. 

I am hoping to get my underfloor online next year depending on my free time and budget.  I'd like to get some aluminum transfer plates, then spray foam them to seal up everything between the joists. 

I love the tile and the stone walk in shower in the bathroom, but walking into it in the morning sucks...    If there was underfloor there it would be nice.

Neal

 

[AKIQPilot]

1 minute ago, NaturallyAspirated said:

 

Thanks Tom I appreciate that from you. 

I am hoping to get my underfloor online next year depending on my free time and budget.  I'd like to get some aluminum transfer plates, then spray foam them to seal up everything between the joists. 

I love the tile and the stone walk in shower in the bathroom, but walking into it in the morning sucks...    If there was underfloor there it would be nice.

Neal

 

Pex stapled to the bottom side of the subfloor works great.  Bubble foil Reflectix directing the energy up into the floor makes for fast transfer.  If you have access to the under side of your tile or hardwood floors it is supper simple to add infloor heat to an existing home.  

There are actually lots of different options if you have access to the bottom side of the floor.  

[Woodtick]

Go to pm

[Zambroski]

I wish I would have ran my pex spaced a bit tighter.  I stayed within a foot but should have gone 8".  Works excellent though.  Keep it at 67 and keeps house warm.  It's in my concrete so adjusting temp takes about 24 hours.  So, we don't lower it at night...I just crack a window if I have to.  

[AKIQPilot]

1 minute ago, Zambroski said:

I wish I would have ran my pex spaced a bit tighter.  I stayed within a foot but should have gone 8".  Works excellent though.  Keep it at 67 and keeps house warm.  It's in my concrete so adjusting temp takes about 24 hours.  So, we don't lower it at night...I just crack a window if I have to.  

Pex is typically spaced based on the ID of the tubing.  If you went 12" spacing you must be using 3/4" tubing.  Thats a good size for a slab but a little big for a subfloor with grout.  I'm not an expert by any means but I have a little experience helping others install infloor heat.  I've laid about 100,000' of tubing over the years.  

I ran fintube in my joists.  Bubblefoil Reflectix and R13 acoustic insulation in every floor joist.   No grout.  Recovery time is instant.  The floors heat up in 5 minutes after the tstat calls for heat.  Fintube is cheap and transfers heat well. It's very unconventional but it fucntions very well.   I am a professional solderer.   Thousands of solder joints and no leaks. 

[NaturallyAspirated]

33 minutes ago, AKIQPilot said:

Pex stapled to the bottom side of the subfloor works great.  Bubble foil Reflectix directing the energy up into the floor makes for fast transfer.  If you have access to the under side of your tile or hardwood floors it is supper simple to add infloor heat to an existing home.  

There are actually lots of different options if you have access to the bottom side of the floor.  

I have 1/2" ship lab for a subfloor, with clear access, then the tile and shower basin on top of that. I have excellent access to all of the room, there is a nice 24" crawl space under the whole addition.  I imagine the Reflectix is a fair bit cheaper than spray foaming. 

Neal

[Garrettv]

23 minutes ago, AKIQPilot said:

Pex is typically spaced based on the ID of the tubing.  If you went 12" spacing you must be using 3/4" tubing.  Thats a good size for a slab but a little big for a subfloor with grout.  I'm not an expert by any means but I have a little experience helping others install infloor heat.  I've laid about 100,000' of tubing over the years.  

I ran fintube in my joists.  Bubblefoil Reflectix and R13 acoustic insulation in every floor joist.   No grout.  Recovery time is instant.  The floors heat up in 5 minutes after the tstat calls for heat.  Fintube is cheap and transfers heat well. It's very unconventional but it fucntions very well.   I am a professional solderer.   Thousands of solder joints and no leaks. 

We would always use 1/2 pex and would run 3 rows spaced at 6” around exterior perimeter and then switch to 12” rows in field and would not run any loop longer then 300 ft before staring a new loop 

 

[NaturallyAspirated]

22 minutes ago, AKIQPilot said:

Pex is typically spaced based on the ID of the tubing.  If you went 12" spacing you must be using 3/4" tubing.  Thats a good size for a slab but a little big for a subfloor with grout.  I'm not an expert by any means but I have a little experience helping others install infloor heat.  I've laid about 100,000' of tubing over the years.  

I ran fintube in my joists.  Bubblefoil Reflectix and R13 acoustic insulation in every floor joist.   No grout.  Recovery time is instant.  The floors heat up in 5 minutes after the tstat calls for heat.  Fintube is cheap and transfers heat well. It's very unconventional but it fucntions very well.   I am a professional solderer.   Thousands of solder joints and no leaks. 

I was thinking of doing this style of transfer plate and running two passes per joist.

https://www.pexuniverse.com/heat-transfer-plates-4ft-atp2-50

Could make it with two 50ct. packs I think.  I should run the numbers on the bubble foil and fiberglass versus spray foam.  I do have some plumbing and HVAC to work around if I went the foil/fiberglass route.

Neal

[AKIQPilot]

32 minutes ago, NaturallyAspirated said:

I was thinking of doing this style of transfer plate and running two passes per joist.

https://www.pexuniverse.com/heat-transfer-plates-4ft-atp2-50

Could make it with two 50ct. packs I think.  I should run the numbers on the bubble foil and fiberglass versus spray foam.  I do have some plumbing and HVAC to work around if I went the foil/fiberglass route.

Neal

Im on the road at the minute so i cant quite look at your link. 

Is your crawl space heated at all or is it at outside temps. If its a cold crawl space the spray urethane is a great way to go. If you dont worry about a little heat escaping into the crawl space then reflectix and R24 would be much more cost effective.  Actually whatever you are currently insulating it with would be fine  

Im a huge fan of urethane. My entire house is insulated with urethane. But urethane takes a while to pay back unless you know someone who sprays for cheap. 

As Garret mentions above. Pex should be kept to 300’ runs. Not any more and not much less. The install process is simple. A 300’ run has 150’ of supply and 150’ of return. The return should be laid right next to the supply. You lay out the tubing and when you get to the half way point you turn around and head back the same path laying the return side of the run right next tonthe supply side. This way you gwt proper heat balancing on every run. 

About 30 years ago an old plumber once gave me some good advice. “No-one will ever wish they put less tubing in a slab”.  Meaning. Dont cut your job short when it comes to the amount of btu transfer you put into your system. A system with to much pex or fintube or exchanger is much better than one without enough.