Anler Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 Oh good, a racism debate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 5 minutes ago, f7ben said: Yes .....if I travel abroad for sure Most Americans never leave their quarter of the globe. 3 minutes ago, NaturallyAspirated said: This is the kind of idiotic blather that drags the discussion down the toilet to pointless tit for tat. Not interested. Neal And this is you invoking your privilege and checking out because you're uncomfortable or feel it's unproductive. And you only feel it's unproductive because I'm not agreeing with you. This is the problem with whiteness, an inability to understand that you aren't correct all the time. Non whites don't have that luxury. They can't just check out and avoid racism. They can't ignore the detrimental effect that their skin color has on their life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 7 minutes ago, Anler said: Oh good, a racism debate! It's always entertaining I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 (edited) 30 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Most Americans never leave their quarter of the globe. And this is you invoking your privilege and checking out because you're uncomfortable or feel it's unproductive. And you only feel it's unproductive because I'm not agreeing with you. This is the problem with whiteness, an inability to understand that you aren't correct all the time. Non whites don't have that luxury. They can't just check out and avoid racism. They can't ignore the detrimental effect that their skin color has on their life. No it isn't at all, it's you going unhinged from logical, thoughtful discussion. I do feel what you are doing is unproductive with the snipes. I choose to pass on that. More idiotic blather. I'm not checked out at all, I am here to debate and discuss a serious issue, and you are choosing to check out when challenged, with pointless whining, and inaccurate assessment. When you choose to come back to reality I will be here waiting to have a discussion. Neal Edited September 14, 2017 by NaturallyAspirated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 Just now, NaturallyAspirated said: No it isn't at all, it's you going unhinged from logical, thoughtful discussion. I do feel what you are doing is unproductive with the snipes. I choose to pass on that. T More idiotic blather. I'm not checked out at all, I am here to debate and discuss a serious issue, and you are choosing to check out when challenged, with pointless whining, and inaccurate assessment. When you choose to come back to reality I will be here waiting to have a discussion. Neal I bring you the definition of racism from people who have actually experienced it their entire lives and you reject it out of hand in order to preserve your 'two way street' indoctrinated view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 Just now, motonoggin said: I bring you the definition of racism from people who have actually experienced it their entire lives and you reject it out of hand in order to preserve your 'two way street' indoctrinated view. I do reject it out of hand, indeed. It's an illogical and irrational definition. A person's experience doesn't excuse them to forgo reason and logic to mask their bias. It's as simple as that. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 Just now, NaturallyAspirated said: I do reject it out of hand, indeed. It's an illogical and irrational definition. A person's experience doesn't excuse them to forgo reason and logic to mask their bias. It's as simple as that. Neal If racism wasn't actually structural and institutionalized we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's clearly more than just an attitude when people who experience it cannot escape it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 1 minute ago, motonoggin said: If racism wasn't actually structural and institutionalized we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's clearly more than just an attitude when people who experience it cannot escape it. racism has been institutionalized in the past and indeed by the white majority ....today that is largely not the case at all. Any effort to try and make up for past transgressions does not have any desired positive effect and most times works to set us back. Acknowledgement is the only solution and way forward. It will take generations to overcome but its where we are and we have to deal with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, motonoggin said: If racism wasn't actually structural and institutionalized we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's clearly more than just an attitude when people who experience it cannot escape it. No, that would be something beyond racism, not racism. Trying to redefine, or expand the definition is silly. Also, the whole structural/institutionalized argument doesn't help minorities. Specific cases are much more powerful. "The police are racists!" is much less powerful than "Police man X,Y,Z who shot and unarmed black man." is a much more powerful argument to make when trying to address and eradicate racism in institutional settings. Neal Edited September 14, 2017 by NaturallyAspirated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, f7ben said: racism has been institutionalized in the past and indeed by the white majority ....today that is largely not the case at all. Any effort to try and make up for past transgressions does not have any desired positive effect and most times works to set us back. Acknowledgement is the only solution and way forward. It will take generations to overcome but its where we are and we have to deal with it Indeed. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 Just now, f7ben said: racism has been institutionalized in the past and indeed by the white majority ....today that is largely not the case at all. Any effort to try and make up for past transgressions does not have any desired positive effect and most times works to set us back. Acknowledgement is the only solution and way forward. It will take generations to overcome but its where we are and we have to deal with it I agree. No one is asking us to 'make up' for past transgressions. They just want our help dismantling the structure that we (wanted or not) benefit from. The first step is acknowledgement of the structure. Once we've identified it, we can begin the process of dismantling it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 1 minute ago, NaturallyAspirated said: No, that would be something beyond racism, not racism. Trying to redefine, or expand the definition is silly. Also, the whole structural/institutionalized argument doesn't help minorities. Specific cases are much more powerful. "The police are racists!" is much less powerful than "Police many X,Y,Z who shot and unarmed black man." is a much more powerful argument to make when trying to address and eradicate racism in institutional settings. Neal White guy seems to know what's best for minorities... SMH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 1 minute ago, motonoggin said: I agree. No one is asking us to 'make up' for past transgressions. They just want our help dismantling the structure that we (wanted or not) benefit from. The first step is acknowledgement of the structure. Once we've identified it, we can begin the process of dismantling it. Actually there are those in the black community who demand we make up for past transgressions (that we personally did not commit). Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 I love how Neal can agree while disagreeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 Just now, motonoggin said: White guy seems to know what's best for minorities... SMH. Well you certainly can't understand their plight so you have no room to be an arbiter. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 Just now, motonoggin said: I love how Neal can agree while disagreeing. I can agree/disagree with individual points to a discussion. Even one in which I disagree with the supposed conclusion. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, NaturallyAspirated said: Actually there are those in the black community who demand we make up for past transgressions (that we personally did not commit). Neal By dismantling the institutional power that keeps racism alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 1 minute ago, NaturallyAspirated said: Well you certainly can't understand their plight so you have no room to be an arbiter. Neal Why can't I? :Bait: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 Just now, motonoggin said: By dismantling the institutional power that keeps racism alive. The problem is that "institutional power" is such a broad definition that any minority that feels they are underprivileged can make the claim that the slightest thing above them is institutional power. Again, this is where the power breaks down, give specific cases. Cases where racism exists. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 1 minute ago, motonoggin said: Why can't I? :Bait: The same reason you gave that I can't. :yousnaggedyourlure: Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 Just now, NaturallyAspirated said: The problem is that "institutional power" is such a broad definition that any minority that feels they are underprivileged can make the claim that the slightest thing above them is institutional power. Again, this is where the power breaks down, give specific cases. Cases where racism exists. Neal Just look at prison population, drug arrests for evidence of structural racism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 Just now, NaturallyAspirated said: The same reason you gave that I can't. :yousnaggedyourlure: Neal Lol. You certainly can't if you don't make an attempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 Just now, motonoggin said: Just look at prison population, drug arrests for evidence of structural racism. Do you have specific examples? Data? Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyAspirated Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 Just now, motonoggin said: Lol. You certainly can't if you don't make an attempt. And there you go, you make no attempt to use logic or reason. SBYL. Neal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 Just now, NaturallyAspirated said: Do you have specific examples? Data? Neal All out of spoons. A quick Google should help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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