Gold Member EvilBird Posted July 24, 2023 Gold Member Share Posted July 24, 2023 13 hours ago, Mainecat said: Careful Neal there’s lots of Putin lovers here. 12 hours ago, akvanden said: Right from the headline. “The prospect of a failed counter-offensive and significant territorial concessions would only embolden Russia and China” As would appeasement. The fact that we’re still discussing this a year and a half later says everything you need to know about how well it’s going for Russia. 12 hours ago, SnowRider said: He’s spot on. Do you read what people post…. You’re one of the Putin Puppets 15 hours ago, NaturallyAspirated said: Russia still can’t seal the deal? What a bunch of incompetent boobs. Neal So when are you fucking clowns going over to Ukraine to die? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akvanden Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, ford_428cj said: Russia went in slow - so NATO would stay on the sidelines. Right. Because militaries prefer slow costly quagmires compared to quick victories. Putins general promised a quick victory, as was predicted by all western intelligence. Remember that 40 mile long column heading to Kyiv at the onset of the war? Edited July 24, 2023 by akvanden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted July 24, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted July 24, 2023 4 minutes ago, akvanden said: Right. Because militaries prefer slow costly quagmires compared to quick defeats. Putins general promised a quick victory, as was predicted by all western intelligence. Remember that 40 mile long column heading to Kyiv at the onset of the war? I honestly don't believe our govt, Ukraine's govt or Russia's govt on what is going on over there. What I do believe is Russia is much less a threat to the US than China and I may have understood some of the $113 billion for Taiwan rather than a corrupt Ukraine. Now we've not done much for Taiwan and Biden is going on saying we are critically short on certain weapons for our own military. We should have NEVER weakened ourselves to defend a corrupt non-NATO country in Europe. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Jimmy Snacks Posted July 24, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted July 24, 2023 12 minutes ago, Highmark said: I honestly don't believe our govt, Ukraine's govt or Russia's govt on what is going on over there. What I do believe is Russia is much less a threat to the US than China and I may have understood some of the $113 billion for Taiwan rather than a corrupt Ukraine. Now we've not done much for Taiwan and Biden is going on saying we are critically short on certain weapons for our own military. We should have NEVER weakened ourselves to defend a corrupt non-NATO country in Europe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted July 24, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted July 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, Jimmy Snacks said: And yet saying that will make people on here call you pro Putin. Well I guess they must be pro Xi. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akvanden Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 26 minutes ago, Highmark said: I honestly don't believe our govt, Ukraine's govt or Russia's govt on what is going on over there. What I do believe is Russia is much less a threat to the US than China and I may have understood some of the $113 billion for Taiwan rather than a corrupt Ukraine. Now we've not done much for Taiwan and Biden is going on saying we are critically short on certain weapons for our own military. We should have NEVER weakened ourselves to defend a corrupt non-NATO country in Europe. The show of solidarity vs a stance of appeasement for Ukraine does much more for Taiwan then sending them some more javelins. And lets be real, the majority of what we'll need against the Chinese in defending an island will be the navy and airforce, both of which aren't being used for Ukraine. I appreciate the stance on Taiwan though - that we can both agree on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member EvilBird Posted July 24, 2023 Gold Member Share Posted July 24, 2023 Yup Highmark is spot on. The fake outrage from these dipshits is somehow non existent for Taiwan. The sheep haven't been programmed for that one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted July 24, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted July 24, 2023 3 minutes ago, akvanden said: The show of solidarity vs a stance of appeasement for Ukraine does much more for Taiwan then sending them some more javelins. And lets be real, the majority of what we'll need against the Chinese in defending an island will be the navy and airforce, both of which aren't being used for Ukraine. I appreciate the stance on Taiwan though - that we can both agree on. The issue with Ukraine for me will always be that the EU members should be on the forefront of protecting a non-NATO ally from an enemy that threatens them far more than us. Do you agree with the current (and past) administrations stance that Taiwan is essentially Chinese land (One China policy)? I've always thought this policy of appeasement was a bit strange. No different than we had done in Israel with the embassy. Talking out of both sides of our mouth seems like a bad idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted July 24, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted July 24, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, akvanden said: Right. Because militaries prefer slow costly quagmires compared to quick victories. Putins general promised a quick victory, as was predicted by all western intelligence. Remember that 40 mile long column heading to Kyiv at the onset of the war? In Proxy wars that's exactly what some prefer. Our military and MIC is loving the idea of bleeding Russia of soldiers and resources. Hell most of the pro Ukraine people on here have indicated the same thing. No way of knowing but China and Russia might be thinking the same thing about NATO. Edited July 24, 2023 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Jimmy Snacks Posted July 24, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted July 24, 2023 34 minutes ago, Highmark said: And yet saying that will make people on here call you pro Putin. Well I guess they must be pro Xi. Yep but I consider the source and laugh it off.👍🏼😉 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Jimmy Snacks Posted July 24, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted July 24, 2023 Just now, Highmark said: In Proxy wars that's exactly what they prefer. Exactly and the tweets I posted say exactly that not to mention that The Biden Administration has had zero interest in pushing for peace talks. It’s a fucking travesty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akvanden Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 3 minutes ago, Highmark said: Do you agree with the current (and past) administrations stance that Taiwan is essentially Chinese land (One China policy)? I've always thought this policy of appeasement was a bit strange. No different than we had done in Israel with the embassy. Talking out of both sides of our mouth seems like a bad idea. It's kind of odd, I agree. We recognize them as part of China but also defend their autonomy. 2 minutes ago, Highmark said: In Proxy wars that's exactly what they prefer. Ford said Russia went in slow - that was not their intent. They wanted it fast and over with, like Crimea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted July 24, 2023 Author Share Posted July 24, 2023 6 minutes ago, Highmark said: In Proxy wars that's exactly what some prefer. Our military and MIC is loving the idea of bleeding Russia of soldiers and resources. Hell most of the pro Ukraine people on here have indicated the same thing. No way of knowing but China and Russia might be thinking the same thing about NATO. Russia is literally demilitarizing nato right now 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted July 24, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted July 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, Jimmy Snacks said: Exactly and the tweets I posted say exactly that not to mention that The Biden Administration has had zero interest in pushing for peace talks. It’s a fucking travesty. Yep...neither political party in the US promoted a strategy of diplomatic solutions. The war mongers took over and now we have a quagmire that may have cost close to 1/2 million lives and upwards of $.5 trillion on all sides. This doesn't even begin to mention re-stocking of the weapons or rebuilding Ukraine. One has to wonder if NATO made some guarantee's not to allow further members of NATO on Russian's border if this whole thing couldn't have been avoided. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Jimmy Snacks Posted July 24, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted July 24, 2023 Just now, ACE said: Russia is literally demilitarizing nato right now Yep and our Feeb In Chief admitted it.😤 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted July 24, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted July 24, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, akvanden said: It's kind of odd, I agree. We recognize them as part of China but also defend their autonomy. Ford said Russia went in slow - that was not their intent. They wanted it fast and over with, like Crimea. Strategic Ambiguity. Yet their are reports that much of the invasion was not handled by their regular forces but reserves and paid mercenaries (Wagner Group). Back to my earlier statement where we don't know who to believe but if Russia had went at it with any amount of strength and couldn't do it then our IC/Military/NATO has been blatantly lying about their capabilities to the world for decades. Honestly ask yourself which one makes most sense? Edited July 24, 2023 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted July 24, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted July 24, 2023 Food for thought. Let's say between NATO, Ukraine and Russia there has been 1/2 trillion spent on the war. Let's say there have been 500K deaths total between military and civilian. That's $1,000,000 per life. Its insane. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted July 24, 2023 Author Share Posted July 24, 2023 7 minutes ago, Highmark said: Yet their are reports that much of the invasion was not handled by their regular forces but reserves and paid mercenaries (Wagner Group). Back to my earlier statement where we don't know who to believe but if Russia had went at it with any amount of strength and couldn't do it then our IC/Military/NATO has been blatantly lying about their capabilities to the world for decades. Honestly ask yourself which one makes most sense? The Wagner group is an interesting phenomenon. They have a yearly renewed contract and it’s illegal for them to operate on Russian soil. So part of the reason they got sent in was for one, Putin could use them, and two they’re trained and ready to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akvanden Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 6 minutes ago, Highmark said: Yet their are reports that much of the invasion was not handled by their regular forces but reserves and paid mercenaries (Wagner Group). Back to my earlier statement where we don't know who to believe but if Russia had went at it with any amount of strength and couldn't do it then our IC/Military/NATO has been blatantly lying about their capabilities to the world for decades. Honestly ask yourself which one makes most sense? Russia underestimated Ukraine's resistance while making grievous mistakes that only hindered themselves further. Western intelligence failed in thinking they were more capable. Tanks are easy to count - the quality of training, supply lines, communication effectiveness, military strategy, etc is much harder to estimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted July 24, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted July 24, 2023 3 minutes ago, ACE said: The Wagner group is an interesting phenomenon. They have a yearly renewed contract and it’s illegal for them to operate on Russian soil. So part of the reason they got sent in was for one, Putin could use them, and two they’re trained and ready to go Considering Putin/Russia likely thinks NATO a much larger threat than Ukraine I can't imagine they would go in with anymore than at partial strength in order to protect the homeland. If he did it wasn't exactly smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 57 minutes ago, akvanden said: It's kind of odd, I agree. We recognize them as part of China but also defend their autonomy. Ford said Russia went in slow - that was not their intent. They wanted it fast and over with, like Crimea. Kinda like the opposite of what we are doing with Donbass... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamgreen02 Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 The US is the top military in the world and we couldn't beat Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, or Afghanistan. 20 hours ago, NaturallyAspirated said: Russia still can’t seal the deal? What a bunch of incompetent boobs. Neal 19 hours ago, Mainecat said: Careful Neal there’s lots of Putin lovers here. 18 hours ago, SnowRider said: He’s spot on. Do you read what people post…. You’re one of the Putin Puppets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 3 hours ago, Highmark said: Food for thought. Let's say between NATO, Ukraine and Russia there has been 1/2 trillion spent on the war. Let's say there have been 500K deaths total between military and civilian. That's $1,000,000 per life. Its insane. Climate change is expensive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anler Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 21 hours ago, NaturallyAspirated said: Russia still can’t seal the deal? What a bunch of incompetent boobs. Neal Russia has already won. All four territories are now part of Russia and Crimea. I guess if Ukraine and NATO want them back they will have to go get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted July 24, 2023 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted July 24, 2023 8 minutes ago, Anler said: Russia has already won. All four territories are now part of Russia and Crimea. I guess if Ukraine and NATO want them back they will have to go get it. Not sure I'd call this winning for anyone considering many of the cities now in Russian control are devistated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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