The Presidents says, and Bernie Agrees!!

[Mileage Psycho]

Bernie is going to run with the Presidents words   

 

 

[Highmark]

Pass it but let those opt out of the taxes and program if they wish.   Simple as that.  

[Mainecat]

Did anyone read George Wills story he wrote about Trump the other day?

 

[Angry ginger]

2 hours ago, Highmark said:

Pass it but let those opt out of the taxes and program if they wish.   Simple as that.  

sure whats going to happen then when they have no insurance and no way to pay,  take them out behind the hospital and put a bullet in them  .  dump them on the street corner.   Because you know just like SS lots would opt out and then be whining when they need it.  

Reality is we can take the same money thats in the system now and more efficiently allocate it ff we wanted to.  We have the most expensive healthcare on earth but not the best.  But neither party will truly address the problems with healthcare.  

I am sure the government would fuck up parts of UHC and the rich would still get better healthcare but we need to figure out whats better for the average person. The system right now does not work,  most in the middle class are being raked over the coals with 8-10-12k premiums plus big deductibles.   The rich can afford to pay more for private insurance outside a basic government coverage just like they do in other first world countries but end of the day they should help pay for the nsystem because it's in this countries best interest to have healthy and financially solvent citizens

 

 

 

 

 

 

[motonoggin]

6 hours ago, Angry ginger said:

sure whats going to happen then when they have no insurance and no way to pay,  take them out behind the hospital and put a bullet in them  .  dump them on the street corner.   Because you know just like SS lots would opt out and then be whining when they need it.  

Reality is we can take the same money thats in the system now and more efficiently allocate it ff we wanted to.  We have the most expensive healthcare on earth but not the best.  But neither party will truly address the problems with healthcare.  

I am sure the government would fuck up parts of UHC and the rich would still get better healthcare but we need to figure out whats better for the average person. The system right now does not work,  most in the middle class are being raked over the coals with 8-10-12k premiums plus big deductibles.   The rich can afford to pay more for private insurance outside a basic government coverage just like they do in other first world countries but end of the day they should help pay for the nsystem because it's in this countries best interest to have healthy and financially solvent citizens

 

 

 

 

 

 

How will people feel superior to others if that happens?

[Anler]

6 hours ago, Angry ginger said:

sure whats going to happen then when they have no insurance and no way to pay,  take them out behind the hospital and put a bullet in them  .  dump them on the street corner.   Because you know just like SS lots would opt out and then be whining when they need it.  

Reality is we can take the same money thats in the system now and more efficiently allocate it ff we wanted to.  We have the most expensive healthcare on earth but not the best.  But neither party will truly address the problems with healthcare.  

I am sure the government would fuck up parts of UHC and the rich would still get better healthcare but we need to figure out whats better for the average person. The system right now does not work,  most in the middle class are being raked over the coals with 8-10-12k premiums plus big deductibles.   The rich can afford to pay more for private insurance outside a basic government coverage just like they do in other first world countries but end of the day they should help pay for the nsystem because it's in this countries best interest to have healthy and financially solvent citizens

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bankruptcies are going to go thru the roof. That's one thing Obamacare helped lower. UHC would end medical bill bankruptcies. 

[Sal Rosenberg]

 

This is just the next stepping stone to UHC .  Like it or not , that is where we are going

[Rw06GT]

9 minutes ago, Sal Rosenberg said:

 

This is just the next stepping stone to UHC .  Like it or not , that is where we are going

Everyone on this board will be dead long before we have UHC. That's reality with the morons we have running this country. Both D and R.

[Angry ginger]

14 hours ago, Sal Rosenberg said:

 

This is just the next stepping stone to UHC .  Like it or not , that is where we are going

not with the house ratahded righties,  they couldn't see the forest through the trees if their life depended on it.  reminds me of some people here.  

 

pendulum might swing back left real soon given their actions to this point even if people can forgive Trumps incompetencies and then maybe someone will truly address the issue.  Only thing that might save the right from completely fucking up this issue is the senate seems to have more brains.  

[Highmark]

On 5/5/2017 at 11:00 AM, Angry ginger said:

sure whats going to happen then when they have no insurance and no way to pay,  take them out behind the hospital and put a bullet in them  .  dump them on the street corner.   Because you know just like SS lots would opt out and then be whining when they need it.  

Reality is we can take the same money thats in the system now and more efficiently allocate it ff we wanted to.  We have the most expensive healthcare on earth but not the best.  But neither party will truly address the problems with healthcare.  

I am sure the government would fuck up parts of UHC and the rich would still get better healthcare but we need to figure out whats better for the average person. The system right now does not work,  most in the middle class are being raked over the coals with 8-10-12k premiums plus big deductibles.   The rich can afford to pay more for private insurance outside a basic government coverage just like they do in other first world countries but end of the day they should help pay for the nsystem because it's in this countries best interest to have healthy and financially solvent citizens

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please explain how?   Private HCI or UHCI the people that currently pay will still pay and the people that don't won't.   People are kidding themselves if they think any sort of UHC will be passed that don't have large groups of people contributing nothing.   Basically just like the EIC today.   Essentially people get money back from the govt to cover FICA taxes.  They get a larger rebate then the were suppose to pay in in the first place.  Its why we always here the 49% (ish) number of American's who pay nothing in federal income taxes.  

You have to address the cost of care and the only way to do that is rationing and or putting limits on wages and salaries.   

Edited May 8, 2017 by Highmark

[Angry ginger]

2 hours ago, Highmark said:

Please explain how?   Private HCI or UHCI the people that currently pay will still pay and the people that don't won't.   People are kidding themselves if they think any sort of UHC will be passed that don't have large groups of people contributing nothing.   Basically just like the EIC today.   Essentially people get money back from the govt to cover FICA taxes.  They get a larger rebate then the were suppose to pay in in the first place.  Its why we always here the 49% (ish) number of American's who pay nothing in federal income taxes.  

You have to address the cost of care and the only way to do that is rationing and or putting limits on wages and salaries.   

who cares if some contribute nothing,  thats just a reality those are the same people that don't pay now.  Those who can most afford it will pay the most and the middle class and working who truly can't afford the current system will pay less.  Tax revenue will rise as thats no longer going to be a deduction to the employer or a write off on the employees personal returns,  bankruptcies will be less meaning other creditors will pay more in taxes as they aren't writing off their debts along with the med.  It's a win win for all.  

And FTR i agree we need to ration healthcare.  We need to stop keeping people alive regardless of their quality of life. Obama's "death panels" is just practicing good fiscally responsible medicine but the right throws on their blinders on that issue.  

[Highmark]

Just now, Angry ginger said:

who cares if some contribute nothing,  thats just a reality those are the same people that don't pay now.  Those who can most afford it will pay the most and the middle class and working who truly can't afford the current system will pay less.  Tax revenue will rise as thats no longer going to be a deduction to the employer or a write off on the employees personal returns,  bankruptcies will be less meaning other creditors will pay more in taxes as they aren't writing off their debts along with the med.  It's a win win for all.  

And FTR i agree we need to ration healthcare.  We need to stop keeping people alive regardless of their quality of life. Obama's "death panels" is just practicing good fiscally responsible medicine but the right throws on their blinders on that issue.  

How will tax revenue rise if the employers are paying half no different than FICA today?   Those payroll taxes will be deducted as an expense.  That is the way the system would be implemented, a payroll tax.   The bankruptcies tax revenue gain would be inconsequential.  There is no proof that those bankruptcies are strictly caused by medical bills in the first place and 2nd we all already just pay a higher interest rate to the lenders to cover that.   

Its been proven that private HCI is more efficient than Medicare.  So where is the savings?  Drugs?   Well drugs make up about 10% of healthcare costs in the us.   Cut them by 30% (typical profit margin) and you have saved 3% in overall HC costs.   Good but now you've just eliminated 100% of the incentive to create new drugs.      

[hayward]

13 minutes ago, Angry ginger said:

who cares if some contribute nothing,  thats just a reality those are the same people that don't pay now.  Those who can most afford it will pay the most and the middle class and working who truly can't afford the current system will pay less.  Tax revenue will rise as thats no longer going to be a deduction to the employer or a write off on the employees personal returns,  bankruptcies will be less meaning other creditors will pay more in taxes as they aren't writing off their debts along with the med.  It's a win win for all.  

And FTR i agree we need to ration healthcare.  We need to stop keeping people alive regardless of their quality of life. Obama's "death panels" is just practicing good fiscally responsible medicine but the right throws on their blinders on that issue.  

So if it's medically possible to save a life, being it's not fiscally feasable, we let them die?  Who the fuck are you to decide who lives and who dies?  Man-kind as we know it can't go down this path.  Have some cooth and edicate for christ's sake!

Those country's that you claim have better, cheaper healthcare than us, do they think this way?

[Angry ginger]

1 minute ago, hayward said:

So if it's medically possible to save a life, being it's not fiscally feasable, we let them die?  Who the fuck are you to decide who lives and who dies?  Man-kind as we know it can't go down this path.  Have some cooth and edicate for christ's sake!

Those country's that you claim have better, cheaper healthcare than us, do they think this way?

of course we let them die,  the older you are and the further they go from being a contributor to society the less we should pay,  pretty much by 75 unless you've got a common cold or an ankle sprain SBYL   When we chose to fuck with the natural cycle of life we made the decision that society can choose who lives and dies and as a society we have set a value to human life thats used every day. 

 

 

 

[Mainecat]

1 hour ago, Angry ginger said:

of course we let them die,  the older you are and the further they go from being a contributor to society the less we should pay,  pretty much by 75 unless you've got a common cold or an ankle sprain SBYL   When we chose to fuck with the natural cycle of life we made the decision that society can choose who lives and dies and as a society we have set a value to human life thats used every day. 

 

 

 

why have any cancer treatments then?

[Highmark]

18 minutes ago, Mainecat said:

why have any cancer treatments then?

I don't agree with AG but  you have to admit its a problem.  Like my MIL who was an administrator at a nursing home for over 30 years use to say 80% of ones lifetime medical bills are generally spent in the last 2 years of life.  Same goes for such a small % of people who are responsible for over 50% of medical costs.  Our system for the elderly and even for some very young have an emphasis on "life at all costs instead of quality of life."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelbell/2013/01/10/why-5-of-patients-create-50-of-health-care-costs/#6a6285cb28d7

 

Edited May 8, 2017 by Highmark

[Angry ginger]

On 5/8/2017 at 1:23 PM, Mainecat said:

why have any cancer treatments then?

theres a certain point IMO you don't.  I've watched 3 relatives go through horrible deaths,  cancer,  mesothelioma and heart disease.  All would have been better served with assisted suicide.  I've had this discussion with my parents and my wife and we all agree that would be preferable to a poor quality of life.