xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, Snoslinger said: Again, they are general statements that you don’t know for sure helped over what Obama did. Bombing? I seem to remember a lot of members crying about bombing, how useless it was. Now suddenly it is great and the reason we are winning! Yay! The way I look at things is that our troops helped chase ISIS out of Iraqi towns with Obama and the tradition is continuing with trump. Yet some want to throw trump a bone? I was hoping for a specific instance, undeniable. Like generals ordered some bombing that Obama’s said no to Lol ok. You are obviously out of your depth here. I gave you a dozen policy shifts that enhanced operational capacity and efficiency. Keep twisting it until it fits... Specific instances of missions and what not... lol ok. Look Obama wasn’t bad in the fight against ISIS, but what Mattis has done is a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayward Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, Snoslinger said: Again, they are general statements that you don’t know for sure helped over what Obama did. Bombing? I seem to remember a lot of members crying about bombing, how useless it was. Now suddenly it is great and the reason we are winning! Yay! The way I look at things is that our troops helped chase ISIS out of Iraqi towns with Obama and the tradition is continuing with trump. Yet some want to throw trump a bone? I was hoping for a specific instance, undeniable. Like generals ordered some bombing that Obama’s said no to go the fuck away already. You're a goddamned embarrassment for christ's sake. Fuck'n knowitall idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, hayward said: go the fuck away already. You're a goddamned embarrassment for christ's sake. Fuck'n knowitall idiot. It's his signatire vortex moves. XLT is trying to fight his way through it...but you can tell he's getting sucked in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s pump Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 3 hours ago, Zambroski said: Help MC...then yourself. "Thanks Obama!" It literally cannot get any funnier. But everytime I think that.......enter "tool kit". Seems like SR and Slinger get here in unison. It must be pay day at the Underground. SMFH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 14 minutes ago, s pump said: Seems like SR and Slinger get here in unison. It must be pay day at the Underground. SMFH I know. I enjoy watching SR tear away what little credibility his team has already though. Funny as shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 53 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: Lol ok. You are obviously out of your depth here. I gave you a dozen policy shifts that enhanced operational capacity and efficiency. Keep twisting it until it fits... Specific instances of missions and what not... lol ok. Look Obama wasn’t bad in the fight against ISIS, but what Mattis has done is a good thing. maybe I'm not making my argument clear enough. I'm not saying the points you make aren't valid. i'm just looking for some proof that something trump did suddenly caused a victory over isis, as trump and the trumpsters are saying 53 minutes ago, hayward said: go the fuck away already. You're a goddamned embarrassment for christ's sake. Fuck'n knowitall idiot. says the idiot who can't afford health insurance without help, and who knows what else you acquire, supporting trump and the rest of his party who want to take it all away. fuck off, simpleton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Jimmy Snacks Posted December 18, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Snoslinger said: maybe I'm not making my argument clear enough. I'm not saying the points you make aren't valid. i'm just looking for some proof that something trump did suddenly caused a victory over isis, as trump and the trumpsters are saying says the idiot who can't afford health insurance without help, and who knows what else you acquire, supporting trump and the rest of his party who want to take it all away. fuck off, simpleton. Yeah that's cool...you're a fucking douche Slinger and whatever XLT says won't be what you are looking for...your schtick is stale. Edited December 18, 2017 by Jimmy Snacks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, Snoslinger said: maybe I'm not making my argument clear enough. I'm not saying the points you make aren't valid. i'm just looking for some proof that something trump did suddenly caused a victory over isis, as trump and the trumpsters are saying says the idiot who can't afford health insurance without help, and who knows what else you acquire, supporting trump and the rest of his party who want to take it all away. fuck off, simpleton. You are asking for micro instances of a macro effort that led to changes in the war. What you are asking for is just stupid. Those policy changes are why things are better or moving faster. How does one instance of a CPT dropping a bomb instead of a general depict that better than the major policy changes that once in place showed a significant increase in the proficiency of IA solders? You’re trying so hard to discredit Trump that you’ve allowed yourself to be completely oblivious to what you are asking. Trump didn’t fuck this up. It’s one thing out of a hundred. Stop being a partisan hack and think about this critically. It’s so frustrating trying to get anything but bullshit out from you. A successful war is a cumulative effect of strategy and tactics. The tactics and strategy changed. The war effort improved. The strategy and tactics change are therefor the reason for that. You’re better than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Jimmy Snacks Posted December 18, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 18, 2017 1 minute ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: You are asking for micro instances of a macro effort that led to changes in the war. What you are asking for is just stupid. Those policy changes are why things are better or moving faster. How does one instance of a CPT dropping a bomb instead of a general depict that better than the major policy changes that once in place showed a significant increase in the proficiency of IA solders? You’re trying so hard to discredit Trump that you’ve allowed yourself to be completely oblivious to what you are asking. Trump didn’t fuck this up. It’s one thing out of a hundred. Stop being a partisan hack and think about this critically. It’s so frustrating trying to get anything but bullshit out from you. A successful war is a cumulative effect of strategy and tactics. The tactics and strategy changed. The war effort improved. The strategy and tactics change are therefor the reason for that. You’re better than this. No he isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s pump Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Jimmy Snacks said: No he isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: You are asking for micro instances of a macro effort that led to changes in the war. What you are asking for is just stupid. Those policy changes are why things are better or moving faster. How does one instance of a CPT dropping a bomb instead of a general depict that better than the major policy changes that once in place showed a significant increase in the proficiency of IA solders? You’re trying so hard to discredit Trump that you’ve allowed yourself to be completely oblivious to what you are asking. Trump didn’t fuck this up. It’s one thing out of a hundred. Stop being a partisan hack and think about this critically. It’s so frustrating trying to get anything but bullshit out from you. A successful war is a cumulative effect of strategy and tactics. The tactics and strategy changed. The war effort improved. The strategy and tactics change are therefor the reason for that. You’re better than this. where did I state trump fucked this up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Just now, Snoslinger said: where did I state trump fucked this up? Don’t play semantics with me... You think he hasn’t done anything here and that this was just a result of Obama. It’s not. You run in circles around your own preconceived defenitions in this case like “an instance in which a Trump change occurred”. All it makes you look is dreadfully ignorant on the topic at hand. Prove your not a hack, and admit that Trump by way of Mattis has done well here. Gain some dignity back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member SnowRider Posted December 18, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: Don’t play semantics with me... You think he hasn’t done anything here and that this was just a result of Obama. It’s not. You run in circles around your own preconceived defenitions in this case like “an instance in which a Trump change occurred”. All it makes you look is dreadfully ignorant on the topic at hand. Prove your not a hack, and admit that Trump by way of Mattis has done well here. Gain some dignity back... Has Dump acknowledged his strategy is simply an extension of Obama’s along with some streamlined processes to achieve quicker results? Or is Dump trying to take all the credit? What are the potential future/long- term ramifications of a less cautious strategy? Edited December 18, 2017 by SnowRider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 11 minutes ago, SnowRider said: Has Dump acknowledged his strategy is simply an extension of Obama’s along with some streamlined processes to achieve quicker results? Or is Dump trying to take all the credit? What are the potential future/long- term ramifications of a less cautious strategy? Trump won’t admit shit because he is petty. He’ll take all the credit. I don’t think there are long term ramifications. Less cautious isn’t the correct word imo. It would be more flexible or decentralized even. Is there more risk for error? Sure, marginally at most. It also is not Uber conservative in strategy. Less time in theater twiddling thumbs. There is so much more value to having on the ground commanders make their decisions. It’s not like they are shooting from the hip. They are 100% just as accountable. Make a bad call, pay the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 14 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: Don’t play semantics with me... You think he hasn’t done anything here and that this was just a result of Obama. It’s not. You run in circles around your own preconceived defenitions in this case like “an instance in which a Trump change occurred”. All it makes you look is dreadfully ignorant on the topic at hand. Prove your not a hack, and admit that Trump by way of Mattis has done well here. Gain some dignity back... i will admit trump has done something specifically well when you or someone else can prove it. just because the cake is still done after 20 minutes in the oven does not mean changing the way you mixed the batter made it bake any quicker. that approach doesn't work in many fields, especially if decisions are critical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 never mind the chances that some of these decisions could come back and harm us more later. for example, taking out more civilians in a drone hit, instead of waiting until a better shot can be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Just now, Snoslinger said: i will admit trump has done something specifically well when you or someone else can prove it. just because the cake is still done after 20 minutes in the oven does not mean changing the way you mixed the batter made it bake any quicker. that approach doesn't work in many fields, especially if decisions are critical. You have no idea what you are talking about. This isn’t about the speed of decisions. That is a bi-product of this strategy, however. This is about giving command delegation to the leaders in the fight rather than micromanaged from 4000 miles away in an office who don’t even understand the geography of the city that those soldiers may be operating in. It is about trust in leadership of highly trained operators. Obama did not trust them to make those calls. Ask why he saw a huge exodus of excellent warriors....? They left because they couldn’t interdict the enemy without second guessing. They were left out to dry by political grandstanding and indecision. Those are facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 28 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: Don’t play semantics with me... You think he hasn’t done anything here and that this was just a result of Obama. It’s not. You run in circles around your own preconceived defenitions in this case like “an instance in which a Trump change occurred”. All it makes you look is dreadfully ignorant on the topic at hand. Prove your not a hack, and admit that Trump by way of Mattis has done well here. Gain some dignity back... why are you telling me that? I'm not the one of the people running around saying it's all because of trump.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) 1 minute ago, Snoslinger said: never mind the chances that some of these decisions could come back and harm us more later. for example, taking out more civilians in a drone hit, instead of waiting until a better shot can be made. So, someone 4000 miles away is better adept at making that call then a professional JTAC 300+ meters away? Lol, do tell more. Edited December 18, 2017 by xtralettucetomatoe580 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Just now, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: You have no idea what you are talking about. This isn’t about the speed of decisions. That is a bi-product of this strategy, however. This is about giving command delegation to the leaders in the fight rather than micromanaged from 4000 miles away in an office who don’t even understand the geography of the city that those soldiers may be operating in. It is about trust in leadership of highly trained operators. Obama did not trust them to make those calls. Ask why he saw a huge exodus of excellent warriors....? They left because they couldn’t interdict the enemy without second guessing. They were left out to dry by political grandstanding and indecision. Those are facts. well in some cases i think those decisions to rest on others. they may not understand the geography of the city, and may not even need to, but they do know the ramifications of taking out a bunch of civilians if something goes wrong. you can't just have a military running rogue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: So, someone 4000 miles away is better adept at making that call then a professional JTAC 300+ meters away? Lol, do tell more. there's a lot more to the equation than the geography of the city you idiot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Just now, Snoslinger said: well in some cases i think those decisions to rest on others. they may not understand the geography of the city, and may not even need to, but they do know the ramifications of taking out a bunch of civilians if something goes wrong. you can't just have a military running rogue. Those decisions are still made by the military lol. Just the military 4000 miles away... Sooo you think a career operator with 20+ years of combat operations around the world doesn’t understand the ramifications of civcas events? Lol.... mhmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Just now, Snoslinger said: there's a lot more to the equation than the geography of the city you idiot I’m the idiot? Do you have any idea what you are talking about? No... And that was an example... Holy shit you are way out of your depth in this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: Those decisions are still made by the military lol. Just the military 4000 miles away... Sooo you think a career operator with 20+ years of combat operations around the world doesn’t understand the ramifications of civcas events? Lol.... mhmm. I'm saying trump giving more decisions to those in the field, may not always be a good idea. personally, i think he does stuff like this frequently so he can find someone else to blame when shit hits the fan. "well i didn't make the decision, they did!" hell i think he used it already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Do tell Slinger, what other things 4000 miles away are they more aware of? Why can those thing not be passed on? Better yet, why are you so clueless to think all relevant intel isn’t already passed on? This is hilarious. You sound like you have never been around the military decision making process or this process at all... And if that is the case, maybe you should reeval who you are calling an idiot. I’m here all day to run circles around you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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