Zambroski Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, revkevsdi said: So what did the US do to defeat ISIS? How did their plan change from when Obama was in power? This is why you should stop commenting on this. Actually, why you should stop commenting...period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkevsdi Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, Zambroski said: This is why you should stop commenting on this. Actually, why you should stop commenting...period. Is it upsetting when people point out how little you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) 38 minutes ago, revkevsdi said: So what did the US do to defeat ISIS? How did their plan change from when Obama was in power? A lot of it revolves around delegation of authority. Under Mattis, the guys had a lot more leeway to push forward as needed without a cumbersome request process. A lot of the infrastructure was in place from Obama in terms of training programs for IA and IP forces. Those programs have a bigger and faster influx of resources and purview in order to push the Iraqis forward rather than sit back. This is all my opinion of course, but I have friends over there who pretty much all agree that the climate changed after Trump and Mattis took over. There was a sense that there was less over cautious inaction. They put the pedal down. Obama did do a lot of good things. He just never stepped on their throats with action. All the structure was in place, but it didn’t have the leeway to act. That isn’t neccessarily bad, it was just more deliberate and methodical. You could make the arguement that this type of fight doesn’t need that because it revolves around public sentiment. A slow inching process loses interest back home. Edited December 18, 2017 by xtralettucetomatoe580 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 All that said, this is one area where Trump has not completely embarrassed us. Probably because he stayed out of the way and let our lord and savior James Mattis run amok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 33 minutes ago, revkevsdi said: Is it upsetting when people point out how little you know? No. Nobody ever does that has any real intelligence. SBYL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkevsdi Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 9 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: A lot of it revolves around delegation of authority. Under Mattis, the guys had a lot more leeway to push forward as needed without a cumbersome request process. A lot of the infrastructure was in place from Obama in terms of training programs for IA and IP forces. Those programs have a bigger and faster influx of resources and purview in order to push the Iraqis forward rather than sit back. This is all my opinion of course, but I have friends over there who pretty much all agree that the climate changed after Trump and Mattis took over. There was a sense that there was less over cautious inaction. They put the pedal down. Obama did do a lot of good things. He just never stepped on their throats with action. All the structure was in place, but it didn’t have the leeway to act. That isn’t neccessarily bad, it was just more deliberate and methodical. You could make the arguement that this type of fight doesn’t need that because it revolves around public sentiment. A slow inching process loses interest back home. Thanks for the reply. I seem to recall at the beginning Assad was the issue. Trying to remove him from power was part of the deal. It seems that that Russians siding with him has been ignored. This made the fight more one sided. It didn’t even like anyone was as worried about civilian casualties in the last year. Whether they were caused by Assad, the Russians or the US. I’m sure that makes things a little more strait forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 11 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: A lot of it revolves around delegation of authority. Under Mattis, the guys had a lot more leeway to push forward as needed without a cumbersome request process. A lot of the infrastructure was in place from Obama in terms of training programs for IA and IP forces. Those programs have a bigger and faster influx of resources and purview in order to push the Iraqis forward rather than sit back. This is all my opinion of course, but I have friends over there who pretty much all agree that the climate changed after Trump and Mattis took over. There was a sense that there was less over cautious inaction. They put the pedal down. Obama did do a lot of good things. He just never stepped on their throats with action. All the structure was in place, but it didn’t have the leeway to act. That isn’t neccessarily bad, it was just more deliberate and methodical. You could make the arguement that this type of fight doesn’t need that because it revolves around public sentiment. A slow inching process loses interest back home. can you name some specifics that trump did, that Obama did not? I mean a general statement "gave more power" to people is rather weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkevsdi Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, Zambroski said: No. Nobody ever does that has any real intelligence. SBYL. Nice sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, revkevsdi said: Nice sentence. TY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Just now, Snoslinger said: can you name some specifics that trump did, that Obama did not? I mean a general statement "gave more power" to people is rather weak. But it’s not weak. Command authority and the level in which it is held is an enormous thing on a battlefield. It removes doubt, clarifies intent, and generally speeds up the flow of information and action. It’s a restructuring of command delegation. That is huge. When a CPT can delegate bombs based off of his current location’s needs rather than seeking approval from regional level or higher, that is an enormous change in strategy. Don’t underplay level at which critical command decisions can be made. 2 minutes ago, revkevsdi said: Thanks for the reply. I seem to recall at the beginning Assad was the issue. Trying to remove him from power was part of the deal. It seems that that Russians siding with him has been ignored. This made the fight more one sided. It didn’t even like anyone was as worried about civilian casualties in the last year. Whether they were caused by Assad, the Russians or the US. I’m sure that makes things a little more strait forward. Never assume that US forces are not worried about civilian casualties. You’d be wrong. Of course there is always tolerance changes, but that is ingrained so deeply that even the quickest pace fight will stop due to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Just now, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: But it’s not weak. Command authority and the level in which it is held is an enormous thing on a battlefield. It removes doubt, clarifies intent, and generally speeds up the flow of information and action. It’s a restructuring of command delegation. That is huge. When a CPT can delegate bombs based off of his current location’s needs rather than seeking approval from regional level or higher, that is an enormous change in strategy. Don’t underplay level at which critical command decisions can be made. Never assume that US forces are not worried about civilian casualties. You’d be wrong. Of course there is always tolerance changes, but that is ingrained so deeply that even the quickest pace fight will stop due to it. I can understand that, but I was hoping you had specifics. for all we know what the people in the field have done since trump, would have happened regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry ginger Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, Snoslinger said: I can understand that, but I was hoping you had specifics. for all we know what the people in the field have done since trump, would have happened regardless. right t was just taking time for all Obama changes to make their way through and it magically happened after trump got in, SMH trumps been an embarrasement but at least he gets that if we are going to go to war let the generals run it not some politicians worrying about poll numbers as clearly Trump doesn't care at all about his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Angry ginger said: right t was just taking time for all Obama changes to make their way through and it magically happened after trump got in, SMH trumps been an embarrasement but at least he gets that if we are going to go to war let the generals run it not some politicians worrying about poll numbers as clearly Trump doesn't care at all about his. so nothing of substance from you either huh? maybe isis got word that trump was a big meany, they got scared, and ran off much of isis had already been wiped out when Obama was in office, but you already knew that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 sled season is here, ginger needs some riding partners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry ginger Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Snoslinger said: so nothing of substance from you either huh? maybe isis got word that trump was a big meany, they got scared, and ran off much of isis had already been wiped out when Obama was in office, but you already knew that. yes obama was a god among presidents SMH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry ginger Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Just now, Snoslinger said: sled season is here, ginger needs some riding partners right, cause woolies about your equal when it comes to partisan hackery and i never call him out on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Angry ginger said: yes obama was a god among presidents SMH I wouldn't go that far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Angry ginger said: right, cause woolies about your equal when it comes to partisan hackery and i never call him out on that. riiight, I believe in all kinds of whacko conspiracies and abnormalities like wolfie does.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 18 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: But it’s not weak. Command authority and the level in which it is held is an enormous thing on a battlefield. It removes doubt, clarifies intent, and generally speeds up the flow of information and action. It’s a restructuring of command delegation. That is huge. When a CPT can delegate bombs based off of his current location’s needs rather than seeking approval from regional level or higher, that is an enormous change in strategy. Don’t underplay level at which critical command decisions can be made. Never assume that US forces are not worried about civilian casualties. You’d be wrong. Of course there is always tolerance changes, but that is ingrained so deeply that even the quickest pace fight will stop due to it. God bless you, young man. Your patience and tolerance is admirable. Keep up the good fight and watch out for the vortexes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 12 minutes ago, Snoslinger said: I can understand that, but I was hoping you had specifics. for all we know what the people in the field have done since trump, would have happened regardless. I gave you a specific.... Bombing... Here are some more: Delegation of host nation troops. Instead of the Pentagon deciding what missions and where they go, local commanders do. Risk mitigation taking place on the company/team level rather than regional. Mission/objective approval at the BN or lower. Supply chain control being driven by AO requirements rather than regional needs. Reporting structure reduced in length. Training and outfitting requisitions for host nation forces taking place at the BN and lower. All of these reduce the homogenous nature of the fight. One strategy dictated from a regional level doesn’t fit every area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry ginger Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, Snoslinger said: riiight, I believe in all kinds of whacko conspiracies and abnormalities like wolfie does.... Yet you claim russia is why trump got elected not the dems running a shitty candidate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 38 minutes ago, Angry ginger said: Yet you claim russia is why trump got elected not the dems running a shitty candidate. It’s one of several reasons. Why would Russia go to all this trouble here, and in other countries, if what they did didn’t help influence elections? Were they bored? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Jimmy Snacks Posted December 18, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 18, 2017 Why does anybody even bother....Ginger rags on Woolie constantly for his politics yet here comes Slinger with some bullshit about him needing riding partners because he dare to contradict him...fuck Slinger you are one oblivious and annoying cunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtralettucetomatoe580 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 50 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: I gave you a specific.... Bombing... Here are some more: Delegation of host nation troops. Instead of the Pentagon deciding what missions and where they go, local commanders do. Risk mitigation taking place on the company/team level rather than regional. Mission/objective approval at the BN or lower. Supply chain control being driven by AO requirements rather than regional needs. Reporting structure reduced in length. Training and outfitting requisitions for host nation forces taking place at the BN and lower. All of these reduce the homogenous nature of the fight. One strategy dictated from a regional level doesn’t fit every area. @Snoslinger so this isn’t worth commenting on now? Lemme guess, didn’t fit your narrative that you worked up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoslinger Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said: @Snoslinger so this isn’t worth commenting on now? Lemme guess, didn’t fit your narrative that you worked up... Again, they are general statements that you don’t know for sure helped over what Obama did. Bombing? I seem to remember a lot of members crying about bombing, how useless it was. Now suddenly it is great and the reason we are winning! Yay! The way I look at things is that our troops helped chase ISIS out of Iraqi towns with Obama and the tradition is continuing with trump. Yet some want to throw trump a bone? I was hoping for a specific instance, undeniable. Like generals ordered some bombing that Obama’s said no to Edited December 18, 2017 by Snoslinger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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