Why Opioids are such an american problem.

[Zambroski]

1 minute ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

Do you believe that narcotics can alter brain function, effectively hijacking drive states? 

Well, sure I do.  But I also believe many can realize what is happening and fight back.  What’s happening now is tolerance and acceptance of those with “issues” rather than teaching “boot straps”.

All these people do is clog the system and make it hard for the ones that really need attention to get it.   One of the many reasons why we will never have a single pay system.  It will be bankrupted before it starts with all this enabling and hypochondria running unchecked, nay, encouraged!!!!

[Snoslinger]

13 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

It’s not an obsession.  It’s just time for some personal responsibility to start becoming the norm again.  Some do find it more difficult, but many are just weak and lazy.  Enablers give them reason.

and what do you do when that doesn't work and things become an epidemic? you should realize by now that all things don't work like that. of course the poor woman should buy birth control or not fuck, but they don't which causes bigger problems later. of course the drug addict shouldn't rob the store to pay for his addiction, but he does. of course the pregnant woman shouldn't be shooting up, but she does. if the world was as easy as you make it to be we wouldn't have these problems!

[Zambroski]

6 minutes ago, Snoslinger said:

and what do you do when that doesn't work and things become an epidemic? you should realize by now that all things don't work like that. of course the poor woman should buy birth control or not fuck, but they don't which causes bigger problems later. of course the drug addict shouldn't rob the store to pay for his addiction, but he does. of course the pregnant woman shouldn't be shooting up, but she does. if the world was as easy as you make it to be we wouldn't have these problems!

Well, you went off the deep end again.  But let’s focus on bigger dots.  

There’s always been vices.  Everyone is responsible for their own demons and keeping them in check.  Let’s try going back to the acceptance of personal responsibility again.  It’s worked in the past for the most part.  Why we have become a society of blaming other things or other people for our problems is a quagmire and a civilization downfall indicator.  Some need legitimate help. Some have the ability to help themselves....and need to start doing so.  America’s liberal enablement is a disease of the mind.

[Anler]

40 minutes ago, JEFF said:

Yeah. I've had debilitating short term back pain and had the pleasure of being prescribed oxy. It did nothing for me and i still have the remains of a 10 year old bottle here.  I know what your saying and pretty much agree with what you've said. But what about all of the kids that have never had oxy and are jumping into heroin or god damn fentanyl?  Is that big pharma?

Yes I think it's big pharma. They make drugs that get you addicted. And not just opiates. They create a black market with those. 

[ActionfigureJoe]

13 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

Well, sure I do.  But I also believe many can realize what is happening and fight back.  What’s happening now is tolerance and acceptance of those with “issues” rather than teaching “boot straps”.

All these people do is clog the system and make it hard for the ones that really need attention to get it.   One of the many reasons why we will never have a single pay system.  It will be bankrupted before it starts with all this enabling and hypochondria running unchecked, nay, encouraged!!!!

Boot strap therapy. How does that work?

[Zambroski]

Just now, ActionfigureJoe said:

Boot strap therapy. How does that work?

I really don’t find it difficult to understand how you don’t know.  Not sure exactly what you do in this arena but, it probably starts starts with laying you off.

You SCREAM enablement.  

Personal responsibility: Pass it on.

[ActionfigureJoe]

Just now, Zambroski said:

I really don’t find it difficult to understand how you don’t know.  Not sure exactly what you do in this arena but, it probably starts starts with laying you off.

You SCREAM enablement.  

Personal responsibility: Pass it on.

So much for that conversation. Thankfully society and even trump understands what you never will. 

[Jimmy Snacks]

41 minutes ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

Ugh. That’s not even close to touching the issue of addiction. 

If effective non addictive pain meds can be developed it most certainly will reduce addictions.

[Anler]

11 minutes ago, Snoslinger said:

and what do you do when that doesn't work and things become an epidemic? you should realize by now that all things don't work like that. of course the poor woman should buy birth control or not fuck, but they don't which causes bigger problems later. of course the drug addict shouldn't rob the store to pay for his addiction, but he does. of course the pregnant woman shouldn't be shooting up, but she does. if the world was as easy as you make it to be we wouldn't have these problems!

It's hard to argue with the mentality that thinks everything should just work as it should. The world doesn't work that way and never has. And only a complete Meathead doesn't see the practicality of finding effective solutions for the problems at hand. Just throwing up your hands and shouting," why didn't they just do it this way?!?!" Isn't a solution. 

[Zambroski]

1 minute ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

So much for that conversation. Thankfully society and even trump understands what you never will. 

What conversation?  You want a conversation?  Or do you want validation?  I’ll give you one, not the other.  

So,are you struggling with the meaning or reason of/for personal responsibility?

[Zambroski]

1 minute ago, Arctic Cat Destroyer said:

It's hard to argue with the mentality that thinks everything should just work as it should. The world doesn't work that way and never has. And only a complete Meathead doesn't see the practicality of finding effective solutions for the problems at hand. Just throwing up your hands and shouting," why didn't they just do it this way?!?!" Isn't a solution. 

Hey retard.  I’m a social Darwinist. You don’t get that yet?   Not everyone can be “fixed”.  And while I think we should give everyone a chance, some just need to hit the gutter.

You bleeding hearts crack me up.  So much weakness validating and rationalizing more weakness.  All at everyone else’s monetary and mental expense of course.

[ActionfigureJoe]

10 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

What conversation?  You want a conversation?  Or do you want validation?  I’ll give you one, not the other.  

So,are you struggling with the meaning or reason of/for personal responsibility?

No validation needed. My clinic has excellent results with medically proven treatments for addiction. We leave the willpower based approach for addiction to keyboard pseudo intellectuals. 

[Zambroski]

1 minute ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

No validation needed. My clinic has excellent results with medically proven treatments for addiction. We leave the willpower based approach for addiction to keyboard pseudo intellectuals. 

So your clients have no willpower? Whew!  Good thing your clinic and “help” is there, huh?

[Snoslinger]

13 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

Hey retard.  I’m a social Darwinist. You don’t get that yet?   Not everyone can be “fixed”.  And while I think we should give everyone a chance, some just need to hit the gutter.

You bleeding hearts crack me up.  So much weakness validating and rationalizing more weakness.  All at everyone else’s monetary and mental expense of course.

yeah we know, as long as it's not someone in your family that "hits the gutter". because those cases are different. they're nicer, better people than the others.

 

[Anler]

8 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

Hey retard.  I’m a social Darwinist. You don’t get that yet?   Not everyone can be “fixed”.  And while I think we should give everyone a chance, some just need to hit the gutter.

You bleeding hearts crack me up.  So much weakness validating and rationalizing more weakness.  All at everyone else’s monetary and mental expense of course.

If you think I'm a bleeding heart your a fool. I have to talk myself out of murdering people every day. 

My reasoning is the same reasoning that prompted the govt to give people free housing and shit in the first place. Because business owners and civilized people don't want the walking dead amongst us pissing and shitting in the street with pimps and drug dealers on every corner. Give them their own place to do that and there is a dollar value associated with that. You just can't rationalize other peoples mind set. You can't change people you can only change the way you deal with them. And rational and effective solutions minded people choose to put the scourge of society somewhere away from them. Whether it's the ghetto, prison, a rehab facility or a mental hospital. 

[Zambroski]

Just now, Snoslinger said:

yeah we know, as long as it's not someone in your family that "hits the gutter". because those cases are different. they're nicer, better people than the others.

 

No, the ones in my family can hit the gutter too.  And some have.  

But on that note, if one’s own family and friends have given up trying to help, what and how much should we invest in this person?  What’s the limit?  What insurance will cover as mandated by the government? 

Ahhh...back to why we will never have socialized medicine.  

[ActionfigureJoe]

15 minutes ago, Biggie Smails said:

If effective non addictive pain meds can be developed it most certainly will reduce addictions.

There’s some promising drugs in studies right now. They’re peptide based drugs that duplicate the natural neurochemical endomophin in the brain. There’s going to be side effects. the drug will create one of the same type of problems as narcotics. Lowered pain threshold. A far better approach is to move back to the time honored approach to chronic pain that was used prior to the “take a pill” mentality. America needs to get off its better living through chemistry kick. Narcotics have their place in medicine. They need to be restricted for acute pain use only. 

[Zambroski]

1 minute ago, Arctic Cat Destroyer said:

If you think I'm a bleeding heart your a fool. I have to talk myself out of murdering people every day. 

My reasoning is the same reasoning that prompted the govt to give people free housing and shit in the first place. Because business owners and civilized people don't want the walking dead amongst us pissing and shitting in the street with pimps and drug dealers on every corner. Give them their own place to do that and there is a dollar value associated with that. You just can't rationalize other peoples mind set. You can't change people you can only change the way you deal with them. And rational and effective solutions minded people choose to put the scourge of society somewhere away from them. Whether it's the ghetto, prison, a rehab facility or a mental hospital. 

Did I quote you on accident?

As for the rest, I’m buyin’ what you are selling.  

[ActionfigureJoe]

13 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

So your clients have no willpower? Whew!  Good thing your clinic and “help” is there, huh?

The use of willpower to tackle addiction is discouraged. They’ve tried it sometimes for years with disastrous effects. 

Edited October 27, 2017 by ActionfigureJoe

[Zambroski]

Just now, ActionfigureJoe said:

The use of willpower to tackle addiction is discouraged They’ve tried it sometimes for years with disastrous effects. 

I find this statement perplexing and troublesome.  But completely understandable.

[Im4snow]

1 hour ago, ActionfigureJoe said:

Pharmaco, doctors, and the mentality that the american public has been sold about pain control is all complicit in this epidemic. The entire system needs to be overhauled. But it won’t until some additional major lawsuits occur.  

As a non-medical person.... the way I see it it’s the medical community’s job to help a patient minimize pain, etc. unfortunately their best weapon happens to come with high risks.  

 

What were the go to meds prior to the opioids for severe pain mgmt? 

[BOHICA]

Opioids should be over the counter cheap and unlimited....  the problem will grow before it retracts but it will take care of itself eventually.

[Snoslinger]

joy reid, one of the better, more informed anchors in the biz, just owned the shit out of some repuke on this topic. he was crying about the money it'd cost to help with these problems and stated we have a $20T debt to be concerned about. she basically said "what, you're going to increase all that with your tax plan". then he was like "well, um, more revenue, um."

 

 

Edited October 27, 2017 by Snoslinger

[ActionfigureJoe]

1 minute ago, Im4snow said:

As a non-medical person.... the way I see it it’s the medical community’s job to help a patient minimize pain, etc. unfortunately their best weapon happens to come with high risks.  

 

What were the go to meds prior to the opioids for severe pain mgmt? 

First you must understand the underpinnings of what started the free wheeling prescribing of narcotics. Read this. It’s part of a study conducted on how the medical profession has been manipulated to use high powered narcotics to treat chronic pain which in turn started the cottage industry of “pain clinics  

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc1700150

In conclusion, we found that a five-sentence letter published in the Journal in 1980 was heavily and uncritically cited as evidence that addiction was rare with long-term opioid therapy. We believe that this citation pattern contributed to the North American opioid crisis by helping to shape a narrative that allayed prescribers’ concerns about the risk of addiction associated with long-term opioid therapy. In 2007, the manufacturer of OxyContin and three senior executives pleaded guilty to federal criminal charges that they misled regulators, doctors, and patients about the risk of addiction associated with the drug.5Our findings highlight the potential consequences of inaccurate citation and underscore the need for diligence when citing previously published studies.

[Snoslinger]

8 minutes ago, BOHICA said:

Opioids should be over the counter cheap and unlimited....  the problem will grow before it retracts but it will take care of itself eventually.