motonoggin Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Elon Musk doubles down on universal basic income: 'It's going to be necessary' http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-universal-basic-income-2017-2?utm_content=buffer8650b&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer In an interview with CNBC in November, Tesla CEO Elon Musk joined a growing list of tech executives who support universal basic income as a possible solution to the widespread unemployment that automation will likely cause. Universal basic income is a system in which all citizens receive a standard amount of money each month to cover basic expenses like food, rent, and clothes. On Monday, Musk doubled down on his initial support for the concept. "I think we'll end up doing universal basic income," Musk told the crowd at the World Government Summit in Dubai, according to Fast Company. "It's going to be necessary." The economic forecasts for the next several decades don't bode well for the American worker. In March, President Barack Obama warned Congress about the looming threat of job loss, based on several reports that found that as much as 50% of jobs could be replaced by robots by 2030. The downside of that projection is that millions of people would wind up out of a job — a possibility Musk discussed at the summit. "There will be fewer and fewer jobs that a robot cannot do better," he said. "I want to be clear. These are not things I wish will happen; these are things I think probably will happen." Executives who have endorsed UBI — a group that includes Y Combinator President Sam Altman and Facebook cofounder Chris Hughes — also say automation would dramatically increase a society's wealth. "With automation, there will come abundance," Musk said. "Almost everything will get very cheap." That money theoretically could be redistributed to give people financial security even if they didn't work. UBI advocates often point to reduced costs as a reason the system could be cheaper to implement than most might assume. "Because a very small amount of people have an almost unimaginable amount of money at the very top, a basic income could actually decrease almost everyone else's income tax burdens except for theirs," Scott Santens, a UBI advocate, wrote for The Huffington Post. Musk retains some skepticism about the effects of UBI. He has voiced concerns about what would happen to people's sense of purpose if they had less of a need — or no need — to work. "If there's no need for your labor, what's your meaning?" Musk said. "Do you feel useless? That's a much harder problem to deal with." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ez ryder Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 worked great every other time it has been attempted . lets call it something else and see if it works this time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted February 20, 2017 Gold Member Share Posted February 20, 2017 Guaranteed paychecks could work if we gave the individuals receiving it a purpose in life I can think of many thing they could do for public works for 40 hours a week that isn't all that necessary but would give people a purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledderj Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 I can see why Elon is a fan of Socialism. Quote Elon Musk's growing empire is fueled by $4.9 billion in government subsidies http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boered Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 48 minutes ago, sledderj said: I can see why Elon is a fan of Socialism. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html He has also invested a boat load of his own money. No doubt he has advanced e cars far more than any other company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKIQPilot Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Fuck this guy and fuck everyone who thinks like he does. What an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 3 hours ago, Back Country Rebel said: Fuck this guy and fuck everyone who thinks like he does. What an idiot. This is a natural result of capitalism. Better get used to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEMAN! Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 9 hours ago, sledderj said: I can see why Elon is a fan of Socialism. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html OMG!!! TAX BREAKS FOR BUILDING FACTORIES AND EMPLOYING PEOPLE!!!! Honestly, this talking point is just plain stupid unless you want to bitch about the billions upon billions in subsidies provided to many many businesses. Hell, just a month ago everyone in here was touching themselves to group climax over the handful of jobs Trump supposedly saved with......that's right....TAX BREAKS. Here's a breakdown of all of Musk's subsidies. Read through the list and let me know which ones you disagree with. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/electrek.co/2015/06/02/complete-breakdown-of-the-4-9-billion-in-government-support-the-la-times-claims-elon-musks-companies-are-receiving/amp/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted February 20, 2017 Gold Member Share Posted February 20, 2017 For a guaranteed check/welfare these individuals that receive could do things such as go to oroville dam and establish bucket brigades and relieve pressure on the busted spillway. Millions of people getting five gallon buckets full of water from the lake and taking it to the river and dumping it. Would reduce amount of water going over spillway, and give people something to be proud of for receiving their "paycheck" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rw06GT Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 34 minutes ago, ICEMAN! said: OMG!!! TAX BREAKS FOR BUILDING FACTORIES AND EMPLOYING PEOPLE!!!! Honestly, this talking point is just plain stupid unless you want to bitch about the billions upon billions in subsidies provided to many many businesses. Hell, just a month ago everyone in here was touching themselves to group climax over the handful of jobs Trump supposedly saved with......that's right....TAX BREAKS. Here's a breakdown of all of Musk's subsidies. Read through the list and let me know which ones you disagree with. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/electrek.co/2015/06/02/complete-breakdown-of-the-4-9-billion-in-government-support-the-la-times-claims-elon-musks-companies-are-receiving/amp/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted February 20, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 20, 2017 Well we sort of do it already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 48 minutes ago, BOHICA said: For a guaranteed check/welfare these individuals that receive could do things such as go to oroville dam and establish bucket brigades and relieve pressure on the busted spillway. Millions of people getting five gallon buckets full of water from the lake and taking it to the river and dumping it. Would reduce amount of water going over spillway, and give people something to be proud of for receiving their "paycheck" Nothing will change as far as the ones already receiving a guaranteed subsidy. What will change is others will do less, living costs will go up and wages will go down because of an influx of the "free money". I can get real selfish (liberal) and be all for this...I am debt free and financially independent so for me to get my "allotment" from the g'ment would mean I don't spend a fucking dime of my own cash....at all. Uh oh, here come the rub though for the lib-tards, if someone has worked hard and gotten financially independent, they shouldn't get their "free money"....ummm what? Or if they are earning good coin, they don't get it either.....again, what? And now we are back to where we are currently. Socialistic horseshit ideas. Sorry, I WANT MORE SHIT! And I'm smart enough and willing to work hard enough to get it. Or, we could all go back to riding 1976 Yamaha Enticers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted February 20, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) Just exactly where will the savings in manufacturing or wherever be if they are the ones paying for people not to work that were replaced by robots? Now they have the cost of the robots and still have to pay extraordinarily higher taxes for UBI. I can't believe people are stupid enough to think this can work long term in a scale the size of a country. Must be the same people that think money grows on trees. Just think about it. If we are giving 100 million people say $25,000 UBI that is $2.5 trillion in taxes that need to be collected somewhere. Right now the fed govt collects total around $3.3 Trillion in ALL forms of federal taxes not just income. Almost double. Manufacturing labor/bennies can run from 5-30% of sales. Taxes generally run much higher than that already on profitable companies. 45% or higher when including state and local. Edited February 20, 2017 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 It's hilarious that capitalists are trying to save capitalism and they'll likely be defeated by other capitalists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted February 20, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 minute ago, motonoggin said: It's hilarious that capitalists are trying to save capitalism and they'll likely be defeated by other capitalists. Derive a simple economic explanation on how it can work......Go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Highmark said: Derive a simple economic explanation on how it can work......Go. Do you make more money than your labor costs you? IOW, when you pay a guy $20/hr, how much more than $20/hr is his production worth? $40/hr, $200? Edited February 20, 2017 by motonoggin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 FTR, I don't think UBI will work because it won't be near enough to survive on and it'll be a political football. But this is what late stage capitalism looks like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted February 20, 2017 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Do you make more money than your labor costs you? IOW, when you pay a guy $20/hr, how much more than $20/hr is his production worth? $40/hr, $200? No. I do not make near 100% of the cost of labor. Its not even close. Swing and a miss. Come up with a tax structure that makes this possible. Edited February 20, 2017 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Highmark said: No. I do not make near 100% of the cost of labor. Its not even close. Swing and a miss. Come up with a tax structure that makes this possible. How do you expect steady demand for products if no one has money to consume? You can't possibly think that we can continue using debt to prop up consumer demand, can you? I mean, who's going to loan money to someone with no job and no income? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, Highmark said: No. I do not make near 100% of the cost of labor. Its not even close. Swing and a miss. Come up with a tax structure that makes this possible. So, am I misreading this or are you saying you aren't profitable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 12 minutes ago, motonoggin said: FTR, I don't think UBI will work because it won't be near enough to survive on and it'll be a political football. But this is what late stage capitalism looks like. So why the thread? You are "straying" again. Reel it in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 Just now, Zambroski said: So why the thread? You are "straying" again. Reel it in. Shut the fuck up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 19 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Do you make more money than your labor costs you? IOW, when you pay a guy $20/hr, how much more than $20/hr is his production worth? $40/hr, $200? Wow. How do you come up with these numbers? You clearly have no idea what overhead and liability ranges on ee's. Or you are in a trade I now want to enter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 minute ago, motonoggin said: Shut the fuck up "Triggered." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Zambroski said: "Triggered." You're clearly out of your depth here. Just shut up, captain keyboard diarrhea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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