Great video on incentive. Worth watching.

[02sled]

21 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

I think that line of thought reflects a poor opinion of humanity.

There will likely be some 'freeloaders' but I believe that the ability to explore your unique talents will keep people engaged. Those who are truly just lazy would probably be suffering from some sort of depression, in which case friends and neighbors would help them heal and hopefully get them engaged in life.

Do you go through life with rose coloured glasses... wake up man... there are multi-generational welfare families.  Why? Because mom and dad were freeloaders and taught their kids only idiots work when you can collect without lifting a finger. On welfare cheque day there's a steady stream of cabs to the liquor store. They aren't depressed... just lazy freeloaders who think everyone else is stupid for going to work each day.

[02sled]

9 minutes ago, Im4snow said:

It takes a village.  

amen

[snoughnut]

8 minutes ago, 02sled said:

Do you go through life with rose coloured glasses... wake up man... there are multi-generational welfare families.  Why? Because mom and dad were freeloaders and taught their kids only idiots work when you can collect without lifting a finger. On welfare cheque day there's a steady stream of cabs to the liquor store. They aren't depressed... just lazy freeloaders who think everyone else is stupid for going to work each day.

I disagree, I don't blame the losers, they're going to take whatever govt. gives them. Govt. is the enabler and ultimately they own the blame. We really need to get back to common sense in regards to this problem, if you're able to work and choose not to, then you starve.

[washedupmxer]

44 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

I think that line of thought reflects a poor opinion of humanity.

There will likely be some 'freeloaders' but I believe that the ability to explore your unique talents will keep people engaged. Those who are truly just lazy would probably be suffering from some sort of depression, in which case friends and neighbors would help them heal and hopefully get them engaged in life.

lmfao 

I'll take my incentives in cash thank you , hoping for about 13.5% of it this year 

[snoughnut]

21 minutes ago, Im4snow said:

Bahahaha.

Quite the opposite imo.  

And speaking of slavery.....how come prior to capitalism wealth concentrated into just a few hands, and the rest were pheasants.....ie, slaves for meager wages?  

Reality is capitalism, for all its faults, is the best way that we know of to allocate scarce resources in a resource hungry world. Doesn't mean it'll be "fair", just as life often isn't "fair".  

What do you mean prior? Things are pretty much like that right now. Either you were wealthy or you were a bird?

[motonoggin]

23 minutes ago, Im4snow said:

Bahahaha.

Quite the opposite imo.  

And speaking of slavery.....how come prior to capitalism wealth concentrated into just a few hands, and the rest were pheasants.....ie, slaves for meager wages?  

Reality is capitalism, for all its faults, is the best way that we know of to allocate scarce resources in a resource hungry world. Doesn't mean it'll be "fair", just as life often isn't "fair".  

How is capitalism different from feudalism in practice? 

[motonoggin]

23 minutes ago, 02sled said:

Do you go through life with rose coloured glasses... wake up man... there are multi-generational welfare families.  Why? Because mom and dad were freeloaders and taught their kids only idiots work when you can collect without lifting a finger. On welfare cheque day there's a steady stream of cabs to the liquor store. They aren't depressed... just lazy freeloaders who think everyone else is stupid for going to work each day.

The fact that these people don't feel an incentive to work proves the failure of capitalism. 

[motonoggin]

2 minutes ago, snoughnut said:

What do you mean prior? Things are pretty much like that right now. Either you were wealthy or you were a bird?

This.

[washedupmxer]

21 hours ago, motonoggin said:

Me IRL lol

Motos name is steve? 

2 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

The fact that these people don't feel an incentive to work proves the failure of capitalism. 

 or failure of applying bootstraps by the government 

[02sled]

28 minutes ago, snoughnut said:

I disagree, I don't blame the losers, they're going to take whatever govt. gives them. Govt. is the enabler and ultimately they own the blame. We really need to get back to common sense in regards to this problem, if you're able to work and choose not to, then you starve.

We had a provincial government a number of years ago that believed in workfare. The premise was if you want your monthly cheque do something to contribute to your community to earn it. Things like picking up trash in local parks or green spaces. The welfare recipients cried foul and how unfair it was then were supported by the government unions who lamented that those are jobs that should be performed by city employees in their union.

There are however some people who actually have some pride and will not simply take whatever government gives them. A number of years ago a friend of mine lost his job in aerospace manufacturing management as a result of an industry collapse. He vowed he would do anything before he collected welfare. He did a whole lot of minimum wage jobs while he looked for work in his field. He even went around clearing peoples driveways in winter and cutting grass in summer.

[02sled]

30 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

The fact that these people don't feel an incentive to work proves the failure of capitalism. 

It's like I said... what motivates people is as different and unique as finger prints. Some people simply aren't motivated beyond survival and when welfare puts a roof over your head and food in your belly, covers medical and dental and more some are happy with that. Others want more out of life. For some it's a sense of personal achievement and satisfaction, others monetary, others responsibility and still other sources of satisfaction or motivation. In fact it proves the success of capitalism.

Edited December 7, 2016 by 02sled

[Snake]

2 hours ago, Highmark said:

Just because Marx didn't want the authoritarian element doesn't mean it can happen without it.   Its human nature.   I agree human nature has to change for that to be possible I just don't agree human nature has the ability to change or evolve to that point.   Too many of us want Freedom and too many of man wants to rule.  Just the way it is.  

Your method requires virtually everybody to agree economically, socially and virtually everything that sets the rules or laws.   Just isn't ever going to happen.   

 

2 hours ago, Highmark said:

So how is it accomplished then but by anything other than force?

He's already said.

Man (i.e. the human race) needs to EVOLVE.

Evolve, like walking on 2 freaking legs.

[motonoggin]

11 minutes ago, 02sled said:

It's like I said... what motivates people is as different and unique as finger prints. Some people simply aren't motivated beyond survival and when welfare puts a roof over your head and food in your belly, covers medical and dental and more some are happy with that. Others want more out of life. For some it's a sense of personal achievement and satisfaction, others monetary, others responsibility and still other sources of satisfaction or motivation. In fact it proves the success of capitalism.

I don't disagree that the will to survive can make humans do extraordinay things. I just don't think it's the best way to get the most out of humanity, capitalism owes its entire existence to that will. 

[motonoggin]

Just now, Snake said:

 

He's already said.

Man (i.e. the human race) needs to EVOLVE.

Evolve, like walking on 2 freaking legs.

Clearly some are incapable of evolution, by choice of course. 

They are usually fascists. 👍

[Snake]

1 minute ago, motonoggin said:

Clearly some are incapable of evolution, by choice of course. 

They are usually fascists. 👍

Then it isn't evolution.

You go ahead and eat grass grown by your fellow compatriots. I'll be happy to eat my industrialized rib-eye steaks and GE potatoes...

When we're done, let's have a little fun.

[motonoggin]

29 minutes ago, Snake said:

Then it isn't evolution.

You go ahead and eat grass grown by your fellow compatriots. I'll be happy to eat my industrialized rib-eye steaks and GE potatoes...

When we're done, let's have a little fun.

You think evolution is only involuntary?

That, as human beings with free minds, we cannot willfully change our perceptions through education? 

I obviously disagree, and so does human history.

[washedupmxer]

Just now, motonoggin said:

You think evolution is only involuntary?

That, as human beings with free minds, we cannot willfully change our perceptions through education? 

I obviously disagree, and so does human history.

liberals claim to be the most educated yet they are going backwards 

[motonoggin]

1 minute ago, washedupmxer said:

liberals claim to be the most educated yet they are going backwards 

Actually, that seems to be a common affliction amongst all white people.

[washedupmxer]

Just now, motonoggin said:

Actually, that seems to be a common affliction amongst all white people.

if you live your life on the internet I suppose, real white people not so much 

[motonoggin]

5 minutes ago, washedupmxer said:

if you live your life on the internet I suppose, real white people not so much 

You haven't driven around the area in a while, have you?

Sit at Walmart and tell me white people aren't going backwards

Edited December 7, 2016 by motonoggin

[washedupmxer]

1 minute ago, motonoggin said:

You haven't driven around the area in a while, have you?

Sit at Walmart and tell me white people aren't going backwards

Ive been to walmart maybe twice in my life.

 put out a sign that says "free _____" youll get the same crowd

Sit at job site on a new house or factory, , step into a small biz (thing I do daily) and tell me we arent moving forward.  Attend a town meeting, maybe youd feel different 

[racer254]

So moto is an advocate of marxism?

[motonoggin]

1 minute ago, racer254 said:

So moto is an advocate of marxism?

Marx got a lot of things right.

My marxism is mostly limited to his analysis of capitalism. 

My views are also informed by anarchist thinkers like Kropotkin and Bakunin.

So no, I'm not exclusively a Marxist, I am an anarcho communist. 

[racer254]

6 hours ago, motonoggin said:

Marx got a lot of things right.

My marxism is mostly limited to his analysis of capitalism. 

My views are also informed by anarchist thinkers like Kropotkin and Bakunin.

So no, I'm not exclusively a Marxist, I am an anarcho communist. 

SMH.  Please spare us the bullshit. 

You are a marxist and as such you are someone that believes the everyone else should follow marxism EXCEPT YOU.  What a POS.  Thanks, but start living by your own rules first, then you can preach to the rest of us.  By that time, you won't be able to.

[motonoggin]

25 minutes ago, racer254 said:

SMH.  Please spare us the bullshit. 

You are a marxist and as such you are someone that believes the everyone else should follow marxism EXCEPT YOU.  What a POS.  Thanks, but start living by your own rules first, then you can preach to the rest of us.  By that time, you won't be able to.

Lmao. 

Don't tell me what I believe, you don't even fucking know what you believe.