Ohio State wacko was guess what

[Highmark]

2 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

That is fascism. Hands down, without a doubt.  You toe the line, or you die. Because someone or something determines right and wrong whilst limiting free will. Perceptional differences could leave you on the out. That is not freedom, it is slavery to a collective will. This is all a classic case of oversimplification. In theory it is a beautiful thing. Never want for anything, never discrepancy of worth, etc. But in practice, in what world would all of this be possible? And in present how can you create enemies out of everyone who does not believe in a utopic ideal world because they choose with their free will to live a different way? 

 

 

I've often laughed at the thought that Fascism and Communism as being so different.  

[Angry ginger]

2 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

They may be exiled, but I think if people are able to explore and apply their unique talents for the betterment of themselves and humanity, we won't have many 'lazy' people left. 

 

SMH

 

I'd rather live in a  world where people compete for resources and earn more the harder they work.  Oh thats right I already live in that world in the greatest country on earth. 

[Highmark]

7 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

No, we need to do it without authoritarian vanguards or it won't last.

This has to be a completely voluntary arrangement. Nothing like this will be held together through force. 

Well what do you do with the people who want the fruits of their labor?  You cannot practice collectivism without force.  Quit thinking that this evolution of the human species will occur.  

[Cold War]

Did you see any of the videos of the animals on black Friday?  LMAO good luck!

[Highmark]

Just now, Angry ginger said:

SMH

 

I'd rather live in a  world where people compete for resources and earn more the harder they work.  Oh thats right I already live in that world in the greatest country on earth. 

Competition lets the cream rise to the top.   I'm not saying this is always true but in most cases it is.  

[Legend]

boy with this much resistance to "the cause" on here, I wonder how it will work in real life.......

 

well I will be long dead and gone before anything like this would ever come close anyway....

[revkevsdi]

This talk of the American dream, freedom and things that are destructive to the environment are great ideas if they were real.

Because right now if you came to America with a desire to work hard and $200.00 in your pocket, you'd wouldn't stand a very good chance of making it.

But supposing you lucked out and found a job fishing, built it to a small fleet of boats, then an oil spill fucks your business. Normally you'd be able to sue someone whose negligence destroyed your business. But you can't because their losses are limited and you are 1 millionth in line. 

If destruction of the environment was paid for during the quest for wealth then things would be a little more equitable. 

Capitalism would be fine if it weren't for the protections the extremely rich put in place to protect their wealth.

Banks go tits up, the government steps in and still the people that fucked up get their bonuses. Those assholes still think they deserve it because of their skewed view of risk and rewards. 

[motonoggin]

4 minutes ago, Legend said:

So we all would be a bunch of sheep? No difference of opinion? 

No, lively debate must occur, and ideas exchanged in order to determine the best course. We need to apply our collective intelligence diligently and without prejudice. 

4 minutes ago, Highmark said:

Like in Star Trek.  

Gene Roddenberry was a commie.

4 minutes ago, Snake said:

All under the assumption people's attitudes won't change.

You want 'evolution', but for it to stop at the commune door.

Well, as I see it, a classless society dedicated to the betterment of itself that wants for little else is the pinnacle of human evolution.

3 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

That is fascism. Hands down, without a doubt.  You toe the line, or you die. Because someone or something determines right and wrong whilst limiting free will. Perceptional differences could leave you on the out. That is not freedom, it is slavery to a collective will. This is all a classic case of oversimplification. In theory it is a beautiful thing. Never want for anything, never discrepancy of worth, etc. But in practice, in what world would all of this be possible? And in present how can you create enemies out of everyone who does not believe in a utopic ideal world because they choose with their free will to live a different way? 

 

 

No, it's not fascism at all if the people freely choose it. 

You are free to live any way you choose under ancom, as long as you don't infringe upon others. There's the rub. We cannot even survive under capitalism without infringing upon others. 

[Highmark]

Just now, Legend said:

boy with this much resistance to "the cause" on here, I wonder how it will work in real life.......

 

well I will be long dead and gone before anything like this would ever come close anyway....

Considering most of the people who believe in this are anti-gun folk I would suspect any revolution would be extremely difficult.   

A revolution thru the ballot box will be even more difficult.  Too many American's understand the country has faults but in no way shape or form think Communism is the answer.  

[Highmark]

1 minute ago, motonoggin said:

No, lively debate must occur, and ideas exchanged in order to determine the best course. We need to apply our collective intelligence diligently and without prejudice. 

Gene Roddenberry was a commie.

Well, as I see it, a classless society dedicated to the betterment of itself that wants for little else is the pinnacle of human evolution.

No, it's not fascism at all if the people freely choose it. 

You are free to live any way you choose under ancom, as long as you don't infringe upon others. There's the rub. We cannot even survive under capitalism without infringing upon others. 

Ever wonder why these "collectivism" communities never seem to survive?

[Highmark]

For some entertaining reading.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/2bu3ca/help_me_work_this_whole_ancap_ancom_thing_out/

I'm conflicted, I'm sure someone will be willing to give me their idea, I know in most anarchist ideals ANCAP isn't anarchist at all. How far does their abolishment of the state go? With private property obviously comes some sort of coercive hand to ensure no one takes what is "yours"..and I'm completely against the state and I like that idea but in any society there are going to be wolves among the sheep, but at the same time i'm conflicted with ANCOM also, i feel like if the collective decided I should no long have in my possession, say, of my laptop, they could remove it rom my possession. I disagree because that's force as well...some one help me. Talk to me. Don't condescend, help a brother out.

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

7 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

 

No, it's not fascism at all if the people freely choose it. 

You are free to live any way you choose under ancom, as long as you don't infringe upon others. There's the rub. We cannot even survive under capitalism without infringing upon others. 

What happens if you don't choose it? Then the "Collective Will" can do what? It is a construct no different than any other. It is not a natural reflex of man, so it is a choice to eliminate others who disagree with the construct. That is fascism. 

[motonoggin]

10 minutes ago, Highmark said:

I've often laughed at the thought that Fascism and Communism as being so different.  

In its authoritarian form, communism sn't much different than fascism.

In fascism, those who control the means of production own the government.

In authoritarian communism, the government owns the means of production.

9 minutes ago, Highmark said:

Well what do you do with the people who want the fruits of their labor?  You cannot practice collectivism without force.  Quit thinking that this evolution of the human species will occur.  

No, I won't quit thinking that.

5 minutes ago, Legend said:

boy with this much resistance to "the cause" on here, I wonder how it will work in real life.......

 

well I will be long dead and gone before anything like this would ever come close anyway....

Me too. I'll keep moving the ball, though.

And this board is a bit unrepresentative of the general population. 

[revkevsdi]

6 minutes ago, Angry ginger said:

SMH

 

I'd rather live in a  world where people compete for resources and earn more the harder they work.  Oh thats right I already live in that world in the greatest country on earth. 

that would be true if it was based on hard work and ability. As it is now it is based for the most part on where you were born. 

I am in the top 2-3% of earnings for Canada. I would not score in the top 3% on an IQ test(some lame shitheads on this board won't let that go), I don't work harder than 97% of the people nor am I more innovative than 97% of the people.

I won the lottery by being born into an upper middle class family that continued to become wealthier over time. We worked hard, we worked smart, didn't make too many mistakes and were lucky. I have many friends who have worked harder, had better educations and are successful but they are far from as wealthy as I am. They started 1/4 of the way up the ladder and I was already well past halfway.

 

 

 

 

[motonoggin]

6 minutes ago, Highmark said:

Ever wonder why these "collectivism" communities never seem to survive?

Nope. Authoritarianism from without or within always kills them.

1 minute ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

What happens if you don't choose it? Then the "Collective Will" can do what? It is a construct no different than any other. It is not a natural reflex of man, so it is a choice to eliminate others who disagree with the construct. That is fascism. 

Why wouldn't you choose to live in a society that expects nothing more from you than to strive to better yourself and humanity? 

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

7 minutes ago, revkevsdi said:

that would be true if it was based on hard work and ability. As it is now it is based for the most part on where you were born. 

I am in the top 2-3% of earnings for Canada. I would not score in the top 3% on an IQ test(some lame shitheads on this board won't let that go), I don't work harder than 97% of the people nor am I more innovative than 97% of the people.

I won the lottery by being born into an upper middle class family that continued to become wealthier over time. We worked hard, we worked smart, didn't make too many mistakes and were lucky. I have many friends who have worked harder, had better educations and are successful but they are far from as wealthy as I am. They started 1/4 of the way up the ladder and I was already well past halfway.

 

 

 

 

Of course starting station in life can be an asset... That isn't a surprise to anyone. IQ is not a measure of success nor is your ability to grind 20 hours a day. It is a combination of dozens of factors. Simplifying it to IQ, work ethic, and where you were born is idiotic. I should move to Canada if your way of thinking puts you in the top 3%... 

[xtralettucetomatoe580]

6 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

Why wouldn't you choose to live in a society that expects nothing more from you than to strive to better yourself and humanity? 

It is a construct of what is best for yourself and humanity. It is not definitively better for humanity based on any sort of natural law. So what happens when your construct of what is best for humanity is different? I want to see the world to prosper, but I don't want to see it done through libertarian communism. Do I deserve to die because my construct of how to achieve a harmonious and prosperous world is different than your construct? 

[Highmark]

 

8 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

What happens if you don't choose it? Then the "Collective Will" can do what? It is a construct no different than any other. It is not a natural reflex of man, so it is a choice to eliminate others who disagree with the construct. That is fascism. 

He's refused to answer that from everyone who has asked it.  

[Highmark]

7 minutes ago, revkevsdi said:

that would be true if it was based on hard work and ability. As it is now it is based for the most part on where you were born. 

I am in the top 2-3% of earnings for Canada. I would not score in the top 3% on an IQ test(some lame shitheads on this board won't let that go), I don't work harder than 97% of the people nor am I more innovative than 97% of the people.

I won the lottery by being born into an upper middle class family that continued to become wealthier over time. We worked hard, we worked smart, didn't make too many mistakes and were lucky. I have many friends who have worked harder, had better educations and are successful but they are far from as wealthy as I am. They started 1/4 of the way up the ladder and I was already well past halfway.

 

 

 

 

Then if you are so sorry for your success give your shit up.   You have that right.  

[Highmark]

7 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

Nope. Authoritarianism from without or within always kills them.

Why wouldn't you choose to live in a society that expects nothing more from you than to strive to better yourself and humanity? 

 

13 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

What happens if you don't choose it? Then the "Collective Will" can do what? It is a construct no different than any other. It is not a natural reflex of man, so it is a choice to eliminate others who disagree with the construct. That is fascism. 

Come on moto answer the question.   Plenty of us have asked this.   Its the reason why Collectivism/communism doesn't work without authoritarianism.  

You're being obtuse to think everyone will evolve into this thought process.  They will no more than people like yourself will accept that free market capitalism is the best for the masses.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Highmark

[Cold War]

18 minutes ago, revkevsdi said:

This talk of the American dream, freedom and things that are destructive to the environment are great ideas if they were real.

Because right now if you came to America with a desire to work hard and $200.00 in your pocket, you'd wouldn't stand a very good chance of making it.

But supposing you lucked out and found a job fishing, built it to a small fleet of boats, then an oil spill fucks your business. Normally you'd be able to sue someone whose negligence destroyed your business. But you can't because their losses are limited and you are 1 millionth in line. 

If destruction of the environment was paid for during the quest for wealth then things would be a little more equitable. 

Capitalism would be fine if it weren't for the protections the extremely rich put in place to protect their wealth.

Banks go tits up, the government steps in and still the people that fucked up get their bonuses. Those assholes still think they deserve it because of their skewed view of risk and rewards. 

Fuck you are clueless about the US.

I will show you five Chaldeans just in my little town that would laugh in your face.

 

[motonoggin]

2 minutes ago, xtralettucetomatoe580 said:

It is a construct of what is best for yourself and humanity. It is not definitively better for humanity based on any sort of natural law. So what happens when your construct of what is best for humanity is different? I want to see the world to prosper, but I don't want to see it done through libertarian communism. Do I deserve to die because my construct of how to achieve a harmonious and prosperous world is different than your construct? 

Assuming that you aren't a sociopath, all you need to worry about is betterment of yourself without infringing upon others. 

Yes, it is absolutely utopian and unrealistic by today's standards. I think we can do better than exploiting one another to get ahead. 

[motonoggin]

10 minutes ago, Highmark said:

 

Come on moto answer the question.   Plenty of us have asked this.   Its the reason why Collectivism/communism doesn't work without authoritarianism.  

You're being obtuse to think everyone will evolve into this thought process.  They will no more than people like yourself will accept that free market capitalism is the best for the masses.

It doesn't work WITH authoritarianism, either.

I have answered it. No one would not want to live in a free and equal society with access to all humanity can dream up and the only expectation is exploring your unique talents and using them to better yourself and humanity.

If not participating in that society is what you feel makes you a better person and benefits humanity, go for it, no one can or will stop you. If you infringe upon the rest of humanity, though, someone will stop you. 

Edited November 29, 2016 by motonoggin

[Highmark]

8 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

It doesn't work WITH authoritarianism, either.

I have answered it. No one would not want to live in a free and equal society with access to all humanity can dream up and the only expectation is exploring your unique talents and using them to better yourself and humanity.

If not participating in that society is what you feel makes you a better person and benefits humanity, go for it, no one can or will stop you. If you infringe upon the rest of humanity, though, someone will stop you. 

It might just be possible to want to live in a free society that if you succeed you can choose to whom you help.  No matter how you paint your Utopian society its not free.  I applaud everyone keeping this discussion on and adult level.  

Edited November 29, 2016 by Highmark

[Angry ginger]

26 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

I have answered it. No one would not want to live in a free and equal society with access to all humanity can dream up and the only expectation is exploring your unique talents and using them to better yourself and humanity.

If not participating in that society is what you feel makes you a better person and benefits humanity, go for it, no one can or will stop you. If you infringe upon the rest of humanity, though, someone will stop you. 

you can't ignore the natural tendencies of all animals,  there is no possible way that would ever happen.  In every society, pack, den etc there are leaders and followers, winners and losers, weak and strong and nothing will ever change that