GM to close Oshawa Operations.

[Sksman 351]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/gm-oshawa-trade-uncertainty-1.4920920

The federal and Ontario governments could throw another relief package at GM, he said, but it would have to be big — one that would include union concessions, electricity rebates, tax reductions (including carbon tax relief) and direct incentives to compete with U.S. jurisdictions.

 

funny article quotes the GM plant killer is all things Fail says don’t affect us.

[irv 5,627]

On 11/25/2018 at 9:29 PM, 1trailmaker said:

Doug is running the ship

Trudeau has nothing to do with this

Doug either does something about it or like I am sure he will do nothing and just blame Wynne and Trudeau.   Not great leadership qualities in Doug.

 

So time will tell what Ontario's plan is.  Can't wait to hear it.

 

10 hours ago, 1trailmaker said:

I said no such thing

 

Carbon Tax was Doug's choice we had Cap n Trade and it was working well most didn't even notice it.  I will  say NO it had nothing to do with this.  

 

 

Donny lost another battle, he feels bad for himself  

You should lay off the bong for a bit Trail as you said it right from the start. And also, just like I knew you would, you forgot to answer my questions about Hydro rates in this province and Trudope driving more businesses out all the time with his carbon tax and other nonsense. Deflect, deflect deflect. 

[1trailmaker 2,656]

4 hours ago, Sksman said:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/gm-oshawa-trade-uncertainty-1.4920920

The federal and Ontario governments could throw another relief package at GM, he said, but it would have to be big — one that would include union concessions, electricity rebates, tax reductions (including carbon tax relief) and direct incentives to compete with U.S. jurisdictions.

 

funny article quotes the GM plant killer is all things Fail says don’t affect us.

Hmmm funny they closed up in USA too   

In your race to the bottom you know want to compete with places like China.  How far do we leap into the hole?

 

Still hoping something comes of this.  

[1trailmaker 2,656]

1 hour ago, irv said:

 

You should lay off the bong for a bit Trail as you said it right from the start. And also, just like I knew you would, you forgot to answer my questions about Hydro rates in this province and Trudope driving more businesses out all the time with his carbon tax and other nonsense. Deflect, deflect deflect. 

sorry IRV we had cap and trade for almost 2 years, The Big Provinces all have some sort of Carbon Tax (Ontario withdrew) some for decades, the idea this is kiling jobs is a myth.

Record employment pretty much country wide - sounds doom and gloom to me

11 straight Qs of growth  

I think we will feel this direct tax on all businesses unlike what we had and now will be behind other Provinces in Canada.  Go Doug its his choice 

[irv 5,627]

31 minutes ago, 1trailmaker said:

sorry IRV we had cap and trade for almost 2 years, The Big Provinces all have some sort of Carbon Tax (Ontario withdrew) some for decades, the idea this is kiling jobs is a myth.

Record employment pretty much country wide - sounds doom and gloom to me

11 straight Qs of growth  

I think we will feel this direct tax on all businesses unlike what we had and now will be behind other Provinces in Canada.  Go Doug its his choice 

Again, you refuse to answer the questions. Is it your sticht to only answer/talk about issues that go along with your narrative or are you open minded enough to at least acknowledge them?

 https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/lilley-red-tape-and-taxes-chasing-auto-jobs-out-of-canada

"When the McGuinty Liberals took power in 2003, Ontario was the jurisdiction with the biggest share of auto production in North America. We haven’t been able to say that for some time.

Political policy matters and 15 years of Liberal rule turned Ontario from the economic engine of the country to a province that has received equalization payments from the federal government for the last several years.

The closest thing we’ve seen to an auto strategy recently was the plan from the Wynne Liberals to offer subsidies for people to buy electric cars. None of which were made in Ontario"

 

"We had cap-and-trade provincially, when that was done away with the feds promised a carbon tax. You can’t underestimate what this will do to the industrial and business climate in this country.

Trudeau’s carbon tax alone will make building vehicles in Ontario more expensive but if you sell a vehicle made elsewhere, the tax won’t apply"

[1trailmaker 2,656]

38 minutes ago, irv said:

Again, you refuse to answer the questions. Is it your sticht to only answer/talk about issues that go along with your narrative or are you open minded enough to at least acknowledge them?

 https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/lilley-red-tape-and-taxes-chasing-auto-jobs-out-of-canada

"When the McGuinty Liberals took power in 2003, Ontario was the jurisdiction with the biggest share of auto production in North America. We haven’t been able to say that for some time.

Political policy matters and 15 years of Liberal rule turned Ontario from the economic engine of the country to a province that has received equalization payments from the federal government for the last several years.

The closest thing we’ve seen to an auto strategy recently was the plan from the Wynne Liberals to offer subsidies for people to buy electric cars. None of which were made in Ontario"

 

"We had cap-and-trade provincially, when that was done away with the feds promised a carbon tax. You can’t underestimate what this will do to the industrial and business climate in this country.

Trudeau’s carbon tax alone will make building vehicles in Ontario more expensive but if you sell a vehicle made elsewhere, the tax won’t apply"

FORD HONDA CHYSLER AND GM ALL STILL BUILD HERE buiding with Cap and trade but THE SUN says different.

I understand THE SUNS VIEW - ONEWAY

 

Offshore is the new way.

Edited November 27, 2018 by 1trailmaker

[02sled 732]

23 hours ago, 1trailmaker said:

So Trudeau is off the hook since we can't do anything?  just wondering ONEWAY 

As usual Fail... you deflected and Failed to answer the question. You chimed in with your expectation that Doug needs to turn this around and save the plant. I asked for your solution.

So genius you think there is plenty that Doug can do. Let's here your inspirational concept that would sway GM to scrap all the planning that has likely been in the works for well over a year. 

21 hours ago, 1trailmaker said:

No idea, I am just waiting tor a response from Ontario's leader.  

His response is and will be to do whatever can be done to help those unemployed through the transition and finding new jobs. For many it's not the end of the world. About 50% of them are eligible to collect 60 to 65% of their incomes as a pension including medical and dental. If they get a job even part time that gives them 35 to 40% of their income then they are at a break even point.

I'll ask again Fail... what do you expect the province to do? I'm not holding my breath for a response, a nice deflect maybe but not an answer.

18 hours ago, 1trailmaker said:

Doug waves white flag and admits its over without a fight.  He did say he spoke with GM and offered everything but money. We has no money for this as he stated.  Sorry IRV he doesn't care

Hopefully the Feds step up with something like longer EI payments

At least I got my answer.

Again Fail... what do you expect the province to do. GM is not going to totally rework a global restructure just because Ontario throws a bit of money at them.

 

14 hours ago, 1trailmaker said:

I said no such thing

Carbon Tax was Doug's choice we had Cap n Trade and it was working well most didn't even notice it.  I will  say NO it had nothing to do with this.  

Donny lost another battle, he feels bad for himself  

More stupidity from the guy with the Trudope romance happening. Cap & Trade is/was a carbon tax. Business forced to buy CARBON credits. Call it what you want it's a tax. Just like McSquinty when he added the OHIP tax to your income tax return. He told everyone it's not a tax, it's a levy. Keep drinking the Trudope and Fiberal KookAid Fail.

[1trailmaker 2,656]

45 minutes ago, 02sled said:

As usual Fail... you deflected and Failed to answer the question. You chimed in with your expectation that Doug needs to turn this around and save the plant. I asked for your solution.

So genius you think there is plenty that Doug can do. Let's here your inspirational concept that would sway GM to scrap all the planning that has likely been in the works for well over a year. 

His response is and will be to do whatever can be done to help those unemployed through the transition and finding new jobs. For many it's not the end of the world. About 50% of them are eligible to collect 60 to 65% of their incomes as a pension including medical and dental. If they get a job even part time that gives them 35 to 40% of their income then they are at a break even point.

I'll ask again Fail... what do you expect the province to do? I'm not holding my breath for a response, a nice deflect maybe but not an answer.

Again Fail... what do you expect the province to do. GM is not going to totally rework a global restructure just because Ontario throws a bit of money at them.

 

More stupidity from the guy with the Trudope romance happening. Cap & Trade is/was a carbon tax. Business forced to buy CARBON credits. Call it what you want it's a tax. Just like McSquinty when he added the OHIP tax to your income tax return. He told everyone it's not a tax, it's a levy. Keep drinking the Trudope and Fiberal KookAid Fail.

wow what a post of how to CAVE  

 

You need to understand Cap n Trade - just saying no isn't going to help.  

The new carbon tax Doug is going to get will be a direct tax unlike Cap n trade where it could cost you nothing.  

Carry on with you clear ONEWAY SUPPORT

 

When Doug loses in Court or is overturned NOTWITHSTANDING what is the plan then?  NO PLAN ISN'T AN OPTION 

[1trailmaker 2,656]

49 minutes ago, 02sled said:

 

His response is and will be to do whatever can be done to help those unemployed through the transition and finding new jobs. For many it's not the end of the world. About 50% of them are eligible to collect 60 to 65% of their incomes as a pension including medical and dental. If they get a job even part time that gives them 35 to 40% of their income then they are at a break even point.

 

IRV is reassured now by your post 

 

where did you get those numbers?  can I read up on it 

[Sksman 351]

1 hour ago, 1trailmaker said:

wow what a post of how to CAVE  

 

You need to understand Cap n Trade - just saying no isn't going to help.  

The new carbon tax Doug is going to get will be a direct tax unlike Cap n trade where it could cost you nothing.  

Carry on with you clear ONEWAY SUPPORT

 

When Doug loses in Court or is overturned NOTWITHSTANDING what is the plan then?  NO PLAN ISN'T AN OPTION 

Oh boy here comes Fail at his best.

Please explain your statement above how cap and trade could cost anyone nothing?

 

 

[02sled 732]

2 hours ago, 1trailmaker said:

wow what a post of how to CAVE  

You need to understand Cap n Trade - just saying no isn't going to help.  

The new carbon tax Doug is going to get will be a direct tax unlike Cap n trade where it could cost you nothing.  

Carry on with you clear ONEWAY SUPPORT

When Doug loses in Court or is overturned NOTWITHSTANDING what is the plan then?  NO PLAN ISN'T AN OPTION 

Another deflection and avoidance from the world of Fail. You claim Doug is caving to GM. AGAIN I ASK THE QUESTION YOU SIMPLY REFUSE TO ANSWER. WHAT THE HELL DO YOU EXPECT DOUG TO DO? YOU REALLY THINK HE HAS THE ABILITY TO ALTER THE GLOBAL RESTRUCTURING OF AN INTERNATIONAL CORP. YOU REALLY ARE A BUMBLINE IDIOT.

And yet more stupidity. You just can't stop can you. I understand cap and trade very well you buffoon. Too bad you don't. Cap and trade costs us nothing. More from the lunatic mind of Fail. Business has to buy carbon credits and you're stupid enough to think those costs aren't passed on to the customers at every level. You make it just too damned easy to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt you are stupid.

What makes you so sure he and the other provinces will lose. There is something fundamentally wrong with the Federal government imposing a tax on just certain provinces. Too bad that's a concept too complex for you to understand.

2 hours ago, 1trailmaker said:

IRV is reassured now by your post 

where did you get those numbers?  can I read up on it 

Those numbers were from an on air interview on the radio. Sorry they forgot to notify you to listen in.

[1trailmaker 2,656]

1 hour ago, Sksman said:

Oh boy here comes Fail at his best.

Please explain your statement above how cap and trade could cost anyone nothing?

 

 

read up, this is why credits were bought and sold pretty simple if you are selling 

 

That part is gone now

 

You had it for 2 years and saw nothing but a growing economy and plenty of jobs... 

The blanket statement of EVERYTHING IS GOING UP is not relative to this

 

If they didn't bring in any carbon tax I would be okay with that but since most of the world is going this way its only a matter of time. 

If all those contracts are gone and no new ones why hasn't hydro dropped?  10% is dick squat just like the 25% from Wynne.  Since this is only on usage and not delivery our bills will continue to grow no doubt about it.  Only way for it not to is for the government to once again pay the bill

[Sksman 351]

Fail answer the question please.

You said people could avoid paying any tax under cap and trade.

Explain how.

I see another deflection on your part for another bullshit statement.

[1trailmaker 2,656]

35 minutes ago, 02sled said:

Another deflection and avoidance from the world of Fail. You claim Doug is caving to GM. AGAIN I ASK THE QUESTION YOU SIMPLY REFUSE TO ANSWER. WHAT THE HELL DO YOU EXPECT DOUG TO DO? YOU REALLY THINK HE HAS THE ABILITY TO ALTER THE GLOBAL RESTRUCTURING OF AN INTERNATIONAL CORP. YOU REALLY ARE A BUMBLINE IDIOT.

And yet more stupidity. You just can't stop can you. I understand cap and trade very well you buffoon. Too bad you don't. Cap and trade costs us nothing. More from the lunatic mind of Fail. Business has to buy carbon credits and you're stupid enough to think those costs aren't passed on to the customers at every level. You make it just too damned easy to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt you are stupid.

What makes you so sure he and the other provinces will lose. There is something fundamentally wrong with the Federal government imposing a tax on just certain provinces. Too bad that's a concept too complex for you to understand.

Those numbers were from an on air interview on the radio. Sorry they forgot to notify you to listen in.

I didn't expect him to do anything - I wanted to hear his response this is where you guys went nuts  

 

I didn't him to actually stand up at Queens Park stating its over nothing we can do except ask the feds for EI payment.   Seems there is plenty that could be done with the plant but NO ITS OVER - we can't make cars there anymore done over forget about it.  Great leadership 

What exactly are you arguing over?  I really have no idea but keep posting 

 

pretty sad for Oshawa 

[1trailmaker 2,656]

5 minutes ago, Sksman said:

Fail answer the question please.

You said people could avoid paying any tax under cap and trade.

Explain how.

I see another deflection on your part for another bullshit statement.

SK polluting companies are paying <not your deck builder, not the people, so now go back to CREDITS BEING SOLD read up  and come back.  

I guess  you missed the goal of this   

 

Gas would be 1.00 today regardless and this includes HST - what ever happened to getting rid of that job killer?  not the flavour of the day 

 

 

Doug Gave Ontario to the FEDs to control this.  Its coming next in 2 months

Edited November 27, 2018 by 1trailmaker

[irv 5,627]

5 hours ago, 1trailmaker said:

FORD HONDA CHYSLER AND GM ALL STILL BUILD HERE buiding with Cap and trade but THE SUN says different.

I understand THE SUNS VIEW - ONEWAY

 

Offshore is the new way.

I'm liking Donny more and more!https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-27/trump-examining-electric-car-subsidies-following-gm-layoff-plan   https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/27/general-motors-shares-fall-after-trump-threatens-to-cut-subsidies-for-company.html

What's are leader say/do? "I am deeply disappointed" in the closure of the Oshawa plant. 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2018 by irv

[02sled 732]

2 hours ago, 1trailmaker said:

I didn't expect him to do anything - I wanted to hear his response this is where you guys went nuts  

 

I didn't him to actually stand up at Queens Park stating its over nothing we can do except ask the feds for EI payment.   Seems there is plenty that could be done with the plant but NO ITS OVER - we can't make cars there anymore done over forget about it.  Great leadership 

What exactly are you arguing over?  I really have no idea but keep posting 

 

pretty sad for Oshawa 

BS deflect... nothing new from you. You were looking for Doug to save the plant. Don't try and deny it. Now you say you didn't him to actually stand up at Queens Park stating its over nothing we can do except ask the feds for EI payment.

Really... you'd want him to lie and say he's going to save their jobs.

Quit before you totally prove you are just plain incompetent. You say Seems there is plenty that could be done with the plant. You really don't think about anything do you. Who owns the property and buildings? Oh that's right... GM. Did they say the property is for sale? No they didn't. The buildings are designed for a specific purpose. Repurposing the buildings would be extremely and I do mean extremely costly. You really don't have a clue about anything close to reality.

The manufacturing of cars in Oshawa is done. Plain and simple. Not sure what part of that you are unable to comprehend. Now... GM in an interview said they haven't any future plans for the site at this time. It's their building and their property. Yet you think Doug can change that... what an idiot.

Keep on posting deluded statements showing your massive levels of stupidity.

[Sksman 351]

44 minutes ago, 02sled said:

BS deflect... nothing new from you. You were looking for Doug to save the plant. Don't try and deny it. Now you say you didn't him to actually stand up at Queens Park stating its over nothing we can do except ask the feds for EI payment.

Really... you'd want him to lie and say he's going to save their jobs.

Quit before you totally prove you are just plain incompetent. You say Seems there is plenty that could be done with the plant. You really don't think about anything do you. Who owns the property and buildings? Oh that's right... GM. Did they say the property is for sale? No they didn't. The buildings are designed for a specific purpose. Repurposing the buildings would be extremely and I do mean extremely costly. You really don't have a clue about anything close to reality.

The manufacturing of cars in Oshawa is done. Plain and simple. Not sure what part of that you are unable to comprehend. Now... GM in an interview said they haven't any future plans for the site at this time. It's their building and their property. Yet you think Doug can change that... what an idiot.

Keep on posting deluded statements showing your massive levels of stupidity.

Think 50 year old plant or more.  Think paint shop.  Thinners.  Gasoline.

metal filings grinding and dust

Enviromental cleanup that will cost a fortune.  

[Sksman 351]

3 hours ago, 1trailmaker said:

SK polluting companies are paying <not your deck builder, not the people, so now go back to CREDITS BEING SOLD read up  and come back.  

I guess  you missed the goal of this   

 

Gas would be 1.00 today regardless and this includes HST - what ever happened to getting rid of that job killer?  not the flavour of the day 

 

 

Doug Gave Ontario to the FEDs to control this.  Its coming next in 2 months

Come on Fail. Really.  Even t heLiberals said there would be a cost to consumers.

Increased costs in products, transportation, natural gas, etc.

 

We know that you cannot just admit you were wrong again.

[1trailmaker 2,656]

56 minutes ago, 02sled said:

BS deflect... nothing new from you. You were looking for Doug to save the plant. Don't try and deny it. Now you say you didn't him to actually stand up at Queens Park stating its over nothing we can do except ask the feds for EI payment.

Really... you'd want him to lie and say he's going to save their jobs.

Quit before you totally prove you are just plain incompetent. You say Seems there is plenty that could be done with the plant. You really don't think about anything do you. Who owns the property and buildings? Oh that's right... GM. Did they say the property is for sale? No they didn't. The buildings are designed for a specific purpose. Repurposing the buildings would be extremely and I do mean extremely costly. You really don't have a clue about anything close to reality.

The manufacturing of cars in Oshawa is done. Plain and simple. Not sure what part of that you are unable to comprehend. Now... GM in an interview said they haven't any future plans for the site at this time. It's their building and their property. Yet you think Doug can change that... what an idiot.

Keep on posting deluded statements showing your massive levels of stupidity.

wow this is going to be a long 4 years listening to you - So working on the sale of a dead property and having a auto type buying in the future shouldn't be brought up?  Sorry 02sled lame

 

I waited for his response, he gave it with a white flag - why are you so upset     

 

 

[1trailmaker 2,656]

13 minutes ago, Sksman said:

Come on Fail. Really.  Even t heLiberals said there would be a cost to consumers.

Increased costs in products, transportation, natural gas, etc.

 

We know that you cannot just admit you were wrong again.

I said you didn't notice it - try to keep up.

The amounts the government quoted (200+ dollars) is an average of what an average person  my spend on gasoline to hydro ect.   

Its not the same for everyone.  

But yes its coming in this form now thanks to Doug.

 

Now back to Cap and Trade which IS NOT TRUDEAU'S plan was far more cost effective for the consumer.  STOP CONFUSING THE TWO we had the system for 2 years what do you think Doug cancels things and magically you have more money?  no that isn't what happened.

[Sksman 351]

17 hours ago, 1trailmaker said:

I said you didn't notice it - try to keep up.

The amounts the government quoted (200+ dollars) is an average of what an average person  my spend on gasoline to hydro ect.   

Its not the same for everyone.  

But yes its coming in this form now thanks to Doug.

 

Now back to Cap and Trade which IS NOT TRUDEAU'S plan was far more cost effective for the consumer.  STOP CONFUSING THE TWO we had the system for 2 years what do you think Doug cancels things and magically you have more money?  no that isn't what happened.

Your words as taken from your quote above were as follows:

The new carbon tax Doug is going to get will be a direct tax unlike Cap n trade where it could cost you nothing.  

 

So Fail, I ask you again, how could Cap and Trade cost you nothing?

Lets here your bullshit again.  Or admit you were wrong again.

 

 

[1trailmaker 2,656]

17 minutes ago, Sksman said:

Your words as taken from your quote above were as follows:

The new carbon tax Doug is going to get will be a direct tax unlike Cap n trade where it could cost you nothing.  

 

So Fail, I ask you again, how could Cap and Trade cost you nothing?

Lets here your bullshit again.  Or admit you were wrong again.

 

 

You just don't understand about companies selling there credits due to meeting standards, those businesses PAID NOTHING or maybe paid very little while others just pollute and have to spend money on more credits.  Its pretty simple to understand.  

This is why Businesses in ONtario lost a billion dollars due to Doug's cancelling of Cap and Trade.

 

If you can't understand try GOOGLE and search CAP AND TRADE and how it affects business.

 

TORONTO — The cancellation of the cap-and-trade system will cost $3 billion in lost revenue over the next four fiscal years, Ontario’s fiscal watchdog said Tuesday, warning the decision would push the provincial budget further into the red.

 

The FAO also estimated that in the long run, the cap-and-trade system would have cost Ontario families less than the federal carbon tax. The federal government has indicated it plans to return the money raised by the tax directly to residents in the provinces opposed to the plan.

https://business.financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/cancelling-cap-and-trade-will-result-in-3-billion-is-lost-revenue-fao

 

 

The carbon market is a multi-national pollution pricing system that involves Ontario, Quebec, and California. Companies are able to purchase allowances, or permits, that offset the pollution they expect to emit over a given period. If a company emits less than the expected amount, they can sell their allowances to other companies that emitted more.

The carbon market has issued billions of dollars in allowances. If it were unilaterally shut down, the business owners who bought those allowances (also known as permits) would likely demand compensation.

Moreover, Ontario has received about $2.8 billion in revenues from the market — funds it has allocated to Liberal climate policies. Much of that money has already been spent on helping people buy electric cars and renovate their homes, and on building new transit infrastructure.

 

https://tvo.org/article/current-affairs/what-scrapping-cap-and-trade-will-mean-for-ontario

 

"Ontario's carbon tax era is over," Phillips said in the news release.

The legislation also called for the province to set targets for reducing greenhouse gas emissions and to publish a plan to fight climate change.

Critics at the time suggested the government could be on the hook for billions of dollars to compensate companies that have already purchased credits. It was also unclear how the lost revenue would be replaced, if at all.

The government has already axed programs that are funded by proceeds of cap-and-trade, including GreenOn, which offered rebates to homeowners who made specific environmentally friendly choices during home renovations. The government also scrapped a program that offered incentives to drivers who bought electric vehicles.

 

 

There isn't one article saying Doug made a good move.

 

You keep confusing having NO TAXES which isn't an option in Canada Today.  So we will pay more come January its clear as day.

You can hope Doug will win in court but he won't, just like Toronto lost its court case because the Province had the right, same goes for the FEDS they have the right to impose this tax on us.  

 

Keep up the fight 2.8 billion in lose revenue for SloganManBalancedBuget -  YOU SAW NO SAVINGS BUT WILL SEE AN INCREASE COME JANUARY.

winning

[1trailmaker 2,656]

 

WINNING

[1trailmaker 2,656]