***OFFICIAL NHL CUP PLAYOFFS THREAD***

[irv]

Just now, f7ben said:

I totally disagree......Laine has a shot that is so fucking ruthless its almost unfair. He has Ovechkin potential as a pure goal scorer. The fucking kid is only 19 years old still

No denying he is good and can put the puck in the net but he is no Mathews. Still young, sure, but currently he is one dimensional and has a ways to go yet before he can or anyone else can say he is just as good as Mathews. 

[Frostynuts]

Actually, I think Laine is much tougher, both physically and mentally than Mathews.

Mathews will be a great player during the regular season, but I don,t think he can hold up to the physical punishment he will get in the playoffs.

Right now, because he really isn,t doing much for the Leafs, he isn,t getting much attention. When the time comes where he does become more of a threat in the playoffs, he will get punished, and I,ll be very surprised IF he doesn,t disappear, the same way Spazza used to.

He is a great talent, but I,m afraid he is going to be injury prone. Hope I,M WRONG.

[irv]

13 minutes ago, Frostynuts said:

Actually, I think Laine is much tougher, both physically and mentally than Mathews.

Mathews will be a great player during the regular season, but I don,t think he can hold up to the physical punishment he will get in the playoffs.

Right now, because he really isn,t doing much for the Leafs, he isn,t getting much attention. When the time comes where he does become more of a threat in the playoffs, he will get punished, and I,ll be very surprised IF he doesn,t disappear, the same way Spazza used to.

He is a great talent, but I,m afraid he is going to be injury prone. Hope I,M WRONG.

No way Laine could handle the position/role Mathews has and excell like Mathews has. Mathews plays the dirty minutes gets in the dirty areas while Laine just waits for the pass/one timer from the left side. It's no wonder Ovi was his boyhood hero. 

Edited April 15, 2018 by irv

[Frostynuts]

11 minutes ago, irv said:

No way Laine could handle the position/role Mathews has and excell like Mathews has. Mathews plays the dirty minutes gets in the dirty areas while Laine just waits for the pass/one timer from the left side. It's no wonder Ovi was his boyhood hero. 

What role has Mathews had ?

He isn,t tough enough mentally, or physically to handle the crap that goes on during the playoffs.

He will be an excellent regular season player, but not the right mold for the playoffs. He isn,t mean enough, or determined enough, to excel during the grind of the playoffs. Hope I,m wrong, cause Toronto needs him to become their leeder, but they got to decide if they wqnt to win with him during the regular season, or without him in the playoffs.

[f7ben]

2 minutes ago, Frostynuts said:

What role has Mathews had ?

He isn,t tough enough mentally, or physically to handle the crap that goes on during the playoffs.

He will be an excellent regular season player, but not the right mold for the playoffs. He isn,t mean enough, or determined enough, to excel during the grind of the playoffs. Hope I,m wrong, cause Toronto needs him to become their leeder, but they got to decide if they wqnt to win with him during the regular season, or without him in the playoffs.

Toronto is a fucking retarded toxic mess of morons who dont know fuck all about hockey and will turn on their star players every year if they dont measure up for any reason whatsoever.

If I was Wayne fucking Gretzky in his prime I would scrub toilets for a living before I put a Leafs jersey on a played a single game for the assfuck morons that fill that arena

And the same goes for the fucking morons running the Habs show and their "bilingual" requirements. Fucking morons

[irv]

7 minutes ago, Frostynuts said:

What role has Mathews had ?

He isn,t tough enough mentally, or physically to handle the crap that goes on during the playoffs.

He will be an excellent regular season player, but not the right mold for the playoffs. He isn,t mean enough, or determined enough, to excel during the grind of the playoffs. Hope I,m wrong, cause Toronto needs him to become their leeder, but they got to decide if they wqnt to win with him during the regular season, or without him in the playoffs.

Uhh, being a center, and all that that takes to be in that position compared to being a one dimensional winger like Laine. Like I said above, if Matthews had Scheifle, Ehlers, Little, Wheeler, and Big Buff out there protecting him, we wouldn't even be talking about Laine if he played for the Leafs and Matthews for the Jets. Look at Laine's stats when those guys aren't around then look at Matthews. Mathews makes things happen and leads; Laine, not so much. 

[f7ben]

19 minutes ago, irv said:

Uhh, being a center, and all that that takes to be in that position compared to being a one dimensional winger like Laine. Like I said above, if Matthews had Scheifle, Ehlers, Little, Wheeler, and Big Buff out there protecting him, we wouldn't even be talking about Laine if he played for the Leafs and Matthews for the Jets. Look at Laine's stats when those guys aren't around then look at Matthews. Mathews makes things happen and leads; Laine, not so much. 

If I had to choose one to build around it would undoubtedlybe Mathews.......because elite 1C is what wins cups and he has that potential 

If I had to choose right now which one enters the HOF on first ballot.......I;d say Laine by a long shot 

Edited April 15, 2018 by f7ben

[irv]

11 minutes ago, f7ben said:

If I had to choose one to build around it would undoubtedlybe Mathews.......because elite 1C is what wins cups and he has that potential 

If I had to choose right now which one enters the HOF on first ballot.......I;d say Laine by a long shot 

That doesn't make sense Ben. It would be as lopsided as the Rookie of the Year voting was with Mathews, unless you are talking about 15-20 years from now and see Laine completely surpassing Matthews between now and then? Anything is possible but if both stay healthy, I still see Matthews getting more 1st place votes than Laine. 

Right now they both have the same amount of points (regular seasons) but Matthews has played 10 fewer games than Laine. Matthews +/- is +27, which is almost double Laine's +15, and like I said, Matthews is a center, not a winger. 

Right wing: He works the right side of the ice for the most part. He needs to be a physical player who is good along the boards and in the corner. He is responsible for the opposition’s left defenseman in the defensive zone.

Center: He quarterbacks his club at both ends of the ice. Must be good at faceoffs and passing, and it doesn’t hurt if he’s a good shot as well. Coaches want a lot of creativity in this position — and a lot of hockey smarts.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Like I said/alluded to earlier, Laine isn't good enough to be a center man. 

[f7ben]

1 minute ago, irv said:

That doesn't make sense Ben. It would be as lopsided as the Rookie of the Year voting was with Mathews, unless you are talking about 15-20 years from now and see Laine completely surpassing Matthews between now and then? Anything is possible but if both stay healthy, I still see Matthews getting more 1st place votes than Laine. 

Right now they both have the same amount of points (regular seasons) but Matthews has played 10 fewer games than Laine. Matthews +/- is +27, which is almost double Laine's +15, and like I said, Matthews is a center, not a winger. 

Right wing: He works the right side of the ice for the most part. He needs to be a physical player who is good along the boards and in the corner. He is responsible for the opposition’s left defenseman in the defensive zone.

Center: He quarterbacks his club at both ends of the ice. Must be good at faceoffs and passing, and it doesn’t hurt if he’s a good shot as well. Coaches want a lot of creativity in this position — and a lot of hockey smarts.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Like I said/alluded to earlier, Laine isn't good enough to be a center man. 

What I'm saying is the chances of Mathews being a generational 1C are maybe 50/50 at best. He has proven nothing and won nothing

The chances of Laine being a HOF goal scorer potting 500+  goals are very good with his skill set and shot

What I typed makes perfect sense. Mathews has the potential to be someone you build a franchise around....maybe......Laine is looking like a lock to be an Ovechkin style scorer

If you cant understand this stuff we might be discussing hockey on different levels 

[Frostynuts]

48 minutes ago, irv said:

Uhh, being a center, and all that that takes to be in that position compared to being a one dimensional winger like Laine. Like I said above, if Matthews had Scheifle, Ehlers, Little, Wheeler, and Big Buff out there protecting him, we wouldn't even be talking about Laine if he played for the Leafs and Matthews for the Jets. Look at Laine's stats when those guys aren't around then look at Matthews. Mathews makes things happen and leads; Laine, not so much. 

Irv, get the blinders off. Winnipeg is miles ahead of Toronto, in all areas.

Laine is far from a 1 dimensional player, and having all those other guys around him, makes a great team, who are way better, and tougher.

Do you honestly believe that Mathews will ever get tough enough mentally and physically to be a force in the playoffs ? As much as I would love to see him become that player, I highly doubt he can get there. Again, for Torontos sake, I hope I,m wrong.  

[f7ben]

3 minutes ago, Frostynuts said:

Irv, get the blinders off. Winnipeg is miles ahead of Toronto, in all areas.

Laine is far from a 1 dimensional player, and having all those other guys around him, makes a great team, who are way better, and tougher.

Do you honestly believe that Mathews will ever get tough enough mentally and physically to be a force in the playoffs ? As much as I would love to see him become that player, I highly doubt he can get there. Again, for Torontos sake, I hope I,m wrong.  

Its impossible to say.....he's so talented a so young putting a ceiling on him is insane at this point. His injury prone situation is worry some though 

[Zambroski]

30 mins to see who shows up in Wild uniforms.  Men ready to do battle, or a bunch of daisies ready to hit the golf course come next week.

If I had to guess.

[f7ben]

2 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

30 mins to see who shows up in Wild uniforms.  Men ready to do battle, or a bunch of daisies ready to hit the golf course come next week.

If I had to guess.

No....they are gonna come out and bury the Jets this game. The Jets will be tired from the bullshit storm travel and they dont need to play with any sense of urgency because they know they own the Wild any time they need to. 

The Wild get this on 4-2 and the Jets win games 4 in OT and then crush MN in game 5

[irv]

57 minutes ago, f7ben said:

What I'm saying is the chances of Mathews being a generational 1C are maybe 50/50 at best. He has proven nothing and won nothing

The chances of Laine being a HOF goal scorer potting 500+  goals are very good with his skill set and shot

What I typed makes perfect sense. Mathews has the potential to be someone you build a franchise around....maybe......Laine is looking like a lock to be an Ovechkin style scorer

If you cant understand this stuff we might be discussing hockey on different levels 

No it didn't, and it still doesn't. You said, "right now" and said Laine would be in by a long shot over Matthews. I posted up current numbers, which is only part of it for entry to the HOF, btw, and said if both stayed healthy, then Matthews will likely get more 1st place votes than Laine, just like he did with the ROY voting. I have no doubt Laine gets a shit ton of goals throughout his career but I also see Matthews excelling, especially if they get him some better players to play with like Laine currently has.

53 minutes ago, Frostynuts said:

Irv, get the blinders off. Winnipeg is miles ahead of Toronto, in all areas.

Laine is far from a 1 dimensional player, and having all those other guys around him, makes a great team, who are way better, and tougher.

Do you honestly believe that Mathews will ever get tough enough mentally and physically to be a force in the playoffs ? As much as I would love to see him become that player, I highly doubt he can get there. Again, for Torontos sake, I hope I,m wrong.  

Where did I say Winnipeg wasn't?? I've said all along, a lot of Laine's success is due to the current crop of players he has the luxury of playing with. Do you honestly think we'd be hearing what we do about Laine if he wasn't currently playing with the players he is currently playing with? Like I mentioned, switch him and Matthews up/trade teams, and watch Matthews go. He would, like I said, be outshining Laine like no tomorrow. Toronto currently has no one tough enough to stop others from taking liberties with Matthews. If they had big Buff like Winnipeg does, trust me, no one would be taking the liberties with him like they currently do. He is a big kid but he constantly gets abused out there and gets hurt. Toronto needs to address that, among other things, quickly, imo. 

Regardless, I still think Matthews is twice the player. Pay attention next time to who takes the faceoffs, who gets the penalty killing minutes, the power play minutes, in their own zone faceoffs, etc and you will see Matthews is played a lot more in those situations than Laine is. Laine is one dimensional/Ovi like, but like Ovi, I am sure he can improve on that. 

Shooting: Matthews has averaged 3.40 shots per game and Laine 2.80. Laine has made a habit of setting up for the big one-timer from the left circle on the power play, with an average shot length of 39.9 feet. Matthews prefers creating chances in tighter spaces near the goal with an average shot length of 24.9 feet.

Playmaking: The Maple Leafs generate 50.50 percent of all shots attempted at even strength when Matthews is on the ice, a good indicator for explaining how great a playmaker he's been this season. The Jets generate 47.58 percent of the shot attempts when Laine is on the ice. Matthews is fourth among all rookies with 20 primary assists; Laine ranks eighth with 13.

Maple Leafs coach Mike Babcock has put a lot of trust in Matthews, a center, playing alongside two other rookies. He's basically saying, 'I'm not worrying about supporting Matthews. I'm worried about who can take advantage playing with Matthews,' and they are in the playoff hunt. Babcock trusts Matthews, and that speaks volumes about Auston's hockey sense."

"It's coming around for Patrik, but I think Auston has a little bit of an edge because of his leverage in tight and those body-on-body battles. In the open ice they both can skate, both are quick and both are fast. Matthews really holds his ground, holds his leverage in those tight spaces and areas when someone is leaning on him. Laine has great leg and core strength and in the open ice both are terrific. But where space is limited and you have to carve out a lane, Matthews carries that advantage."

 

[Zambroski]

Just now, f7ben said:

No....they are gonna come out and bury the Jets this game. The Jets will be tired from the bullshit storm travel and they dont need to play with any sense of urgency because they know they own the Wild any time they need to. 

The Wild get this on 4-2 and the Jets win games 4 in OT and then crush MN in game 5

Yeah...out in 5.  I hope we are both wrong.  If we can crush them tonight, and somehow repeat on Tuesday...WOW.  Color me fucking impressed.  

"Dear Lord...."

 

[f7ben]

2 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

Yeah...out in 5.  I hope we are both wrong.  If we can crush them tonight, and somehow repeat on Tuesday...WOW.  Color me fucking impressed.  

"Dear Lord...."

 

Dude......the chances of us winning both home games are zero. We are outmatched and outclassed at every single step of the game. They will turtle for this game and then close us out in 5

I'd bet $1000 right now the series is over in 5

[Zambroski]

2 minutes ago, f7ben said:

Dude......the chances of us winning both home games are zero. We are outmatched and outclassed at every single step of the game. They will turtle for this game and then close us out in 5

I'd bet $1000 right now the series is over in 5

I don't think we'll win tonight...or Tuesday.  Why travel back to Winni?  Just stay home.

Ahhhhh.....Minnesota pro sports!  Thank goodness for the Lynx!!!!! 

 

[f7ben]

 the twins are pretty good......I like them 

[snopro31]

Laine loves where he's at.  He is playing hockey and loving it everyday.  Unfortunately, Matthews has so much pressure on him from the leaf fans it is affecting him. 

He's a good player but not a Toronto marketplace player. 

[f7ben]

3 minutes ago, snopro31 said:

Laine loves where he's at.  He is playing hockey and loving it everyday.  Unfortunately, Matthews has so much pressure on him from the leaf fans it is affecting him. 

He's a good player but not a Toronto marketplace player. 

Nobody is a Toronto marketplace player. Its a market of low hockey iq morons and its no place to try and make a career on the ice.

[sledderj]

38 minutes ago, irv said:

No it didn't, and it still doesn't. You said, "right now" and said Laine would be in by a long shot over Matthews. I posted up current numbers, which is only part of it for entry to the HOF, btw, and said if both stayed healthy, then Matthews will likely get more 1st place votes than Laine, just like he did with the ROY voting. I have no doubt Laine gets a shit ton of goals throughout his career but I also see Matthews excelling, especially if they get him some better players to play with like Laine currently has.

Where did I say Winnipeg wasn't?? I've said all along, a lot of Laine's success is due to the current crop of players he has the luxury of playing with. Do you honestly think we'd be hearing what we do about Laine if he wasn't currently playing with the players he is currently playing with? Like I mentioned, switch him and Matthews up/trade teams, and watch Matthews go. He would, like I said, be outshining Laine like no tomorrow. Toronto currently has no one tough enough to stop others from taking liberties with Matthews. If they had big Buff like Winnipeg does, trust me, no one would be taking the liberties with him like they currently do. He is a big kid but he constantly gets abused out there and gets hurt. Toronto needs to address that, among other things, quickly, imo. 

Regardless, I still think Matthews is twice the player. Pay attention next time to who takes the faceoffs, who gets the penalty killing minutes, the power play minutes, in their own zone faceoffs, etc and you will see Matthews is played a lot more in those situations than Laine is. Laine is one dimensional/Ovi like, but like Ovi, I am sure he can improve on that. 

Shooting: Matthews has averaged 3.40 shots per game and Laine 2.80. Laine has made a habit of setting up for the big one-timer from the left circle on the power play, with an average shot length of 39.9 feet. Matthews prefers creating chances in tighter spaces near the goal with an average shot length of 24.9 feet.

Playmaking: The Maple Leafs generate 50.50 percent of all shots attempted at even strength when Matthews is on the ice, a good indicator for explaining how great a playmaker he's been this season. The Jets generate 47.58 percent of the shot attempts when Laine is on the ice. Matthews is fourth among all rookies with 20 primary assists; Laine ranks eighth with 13.

Maple Leafs coach Mike Babcock has put a lot of trust in Matthews, a center, playing alongside two other rookies. He's basically saying, 'I'm not worrying about supporting Matthews. I'm worried about who can take advantage playing with Matthews,' and they are in the playoff hunt. Babcock trusts Matthews, and that speaks volumes about Auston's hockey sense."

"It's coming around for Patrik, but I think Auston has a little bit of an edge because of his leverage in tight and those body-on-body battles. In the open ice they both can skate, both are quick and both are fast. Matthews really holds his ground, holds his leverage in those tight spaces and areas when someone is leaning on him. Laine has great leg and core strength and in the open ice both are terrific. But where space is limited and you have to carve out a lane, Matthews carries that advantage."

 

 

Both of them will be playing in McJesus's shadow anyway.    

 

 

[snopro31]

hahahah and here it goes

[f7ben]

Just now, sledderj said:

 

Both of them will be playing in McJesus's shadow anyway.    

 

 

McJesus........buried in mediocrity and no sign of being able to accomplish anything other than personal stats in garbage time while his team gets shelled 

[sledderj]

 

It's really amazing given all the talent they have rolled through Edmonton that they haven't been able to find much success, yet.  McDavid is unreal to watch though.  

Anyone know what's up with Dumba?  He didn't practice at all between games, so there is something wrong with him.  

 

 

 

[f7ben]

2 minutes ago, sledderj said:

 

It's really amazing given all the talent they have rolled through Edmonton that they haven't been able to find much success, yet.  McDavid is unreal to watch though.  

Anyone know what's up with Dumba?  He didn't practice at all between games, so there is something wrong with him.  

 

 

 

No Dumba is good......he ispaying 30+ so Bruce told him not to practice