Philadelphia considers opening site for heroin users to shoot up safely

[Whiskey Tango Foxtrot]

[steve from amherst]

27 minutes ago, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot said:

I don't think anyone wants these people to die! But, they are breaking the law! Giving them places to further their addiction without repercussions is what pisses me off. I can't smoke a cigarette in a bar, for fear of public safety. Yet these criminals can break the law and say fuck it? Do you think these addicts are only going to shoot up in these designated areas? No, they will still break the law, use in public, leave their needles laying around. I was in a bathroom the other day, it had a needle biohazard disposal hanging on the wall. Great that they have a place to safely dispose of used rigs, but if you don't see that as being a problem 

riding a snowmobile at 46 mph in NH is breaking the law. Should you or I be thrown in jail for it?

[steve from amherst]

Ever think the needle disposal was there for yrs for diabetics?

[Whiskey Tango Foxtrot]

3 minutes ago, steve from amherst said:

riding a snowmobile at 46 mph in NH is breaking the law. Should you or I be thrown in jail for it?

That's a stretch comparing the two...

2 minutes ago, steve from amherst said:

Ever think the needle disposal was there for yrs for diabetics?

Used this particular bathroom in the past. It recently was installed.

[steve from amherst]

1 minute ago, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot said:

That's a stretch comparing the two...

Used this particular bathroom in the past. It recently was installed.

Is it a stretch, Both are illegal and should not be. 

[motonoggin]

God this wtf guy is a bootlicking retard.

"But it's illeeeeeegullllll!!!!1111"

[BOHICA]

They should make public schools safe havens for injecting and shelters for the homeless.  Just let them shoot up under supervision and sleep there when schools not in session.  It’s already facilities that the public pays for that could be multi purpose and are almost on every street corner in america

[spin_dry]

1 hour ago, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot said:

And how much does it cost to staff areas for these people to essentially legally break the law?

No one has an answer?

It costs anywhere from $10,000-92,000 to treat an overdose. The high end is when they’re admitted to ICU. These centers prevent overdoses. That’s a practical money saver for a community. And once again, the most important factor in getting an addict help is to engage them in a conversation about their drug use, the losses associated with it, their dispair, and personal self contempt. 

[motonoggin]

48 minutes ago, BOHICA said:

They should make public schools safe havens for injecting and shelters for the homeless.  Just let them shoot up under supervision and sleep there when schools not in session.  It’s already facilities that the public pays for that could be multi purpose and are almost on every street corner in america

How about instead of that we slaughter the richest family in town and use their house for it?

[racer254]

12 minutes ago, spin_dry said:

It costs anywhere from $10,000-92,000 to treat an overdose. The high end is when they’re admitted to ICU. These centers prevent overdoses. That’s a practical money saver for a community. And once again, the most important factor in getting an addict help is to engage them in a conversation about their drug use, the losses associated with it, their dispair, and personal self contempt. 

Are you really actually saving any $$$?  It has been said here that the death rates are rising even after these places have been implement.  The second argument about getting an addict help is fine, but to say this will save money I can't believe until I see more proof.

[Jimmy Snacks]

15 minutes ago, spin_dry said:

It costs anywhere from $10,000-92,000 to treat an overdose. The high end is when they’re admitted to ICU. These centers prevent overdoses. That’s a practical money saver for a community. And once again, the most important factor in getting an addict help is to engage them in a conversation about their drug use, the losses associated with it, their dispair, and personal self contempt. 

I watch the show Intervention and to simply dismiss these people and tell them to just quit or go cold turkey is assinine.....as Greg points out the complexities of addiction go  beyond just wanting to get high...maybe at the end it's all that matters but what lead to that point is far from simple.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Jimmy Snacks

[spin_dry]

1 hour ago, steve from amherst said:

If our goal is to let them kill themselves off , it is ridiculous. If the goal is to let them get high without killing themselves or spreading HIV , or Hep , it is not.

Last month I stopped to piss at a gas station on Milwaukee’s north side. The bathroom wall was sprayed with blood. Some junkie in a hurry botched the injection. A lot of times that they inject they’re in a hurry. That being in a hurry and botching an injection results in overdoses, abscesses, and infection. These supervised shooting sites allows the junkie to slow down and take their time. If they have an unknown batch the staff can advise them to take a small taste first. Very important if the batch is fentynal laced. Plus that, they have someone like me talking in their ear with information about their disease. I can get almost anyone to talk to me about how much they hate living that way. It’s what we do. 

Edited April 8, 2018 by spin_dry

[BOHICA]

3 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

How about instead of that we slaughter the richest family in town and use their house for it?

School districts/government typical are the richest in town.....  plus they have the most rooms, property, and staffing of any buildings in town.

[spin_dry]

8 minutes ago, racer254 said:

Are you really actually saving any $$$?  It has been said here that the death rates are rising even after these places have been implement.  The second argument about getting an addict help is fine, but to say this will save money I can't believe until I see more proof.

The rising rate of overdoses have nothing to do with supervised injection sites. It has everything to do with more people becoming addicted. Legal shooting sites aren’t part of a prevention program. The sites are considered part of harm reduction. To link these programs with an increase in deaths is proposterous as the rate in which people were getting into opiate use was virtually linear in an upward path. This was also complicated by the introduction of fentynal and its chemical analogs.   

Edited April 8, 2018 by spin_dry

[motonoggin]

4 minutes ago, BOHICA said:

School districts/government typical are the richest in town.....  plus they have the most rooms, property, and staffing of any buildings in town.

 

[racer254]

1 hour ago, spin_dry said:

The rising rate of overdoses have nothing to do with supervised injection sites. It has everything to do with more people becoming addicted. Legal shooting sites aren’t part of a prevention program. The sites are considered part of harm reduction. To link these programs with an increase in deaths is proposterous as the rate in which people were getting into opiate use was virtually linear in an upward path. This was also complicated by the introduction of fentynal and its chemical analogs.   

I really just don't understand the logic behind making an illegal activity easier and more acceptable....IMO that is exactly what this does.

[steve from amherst]

4 minutes ago, racer254 said:

I really just don't understand the logic behind making an illegal activity easier and more acceptable....IMO that is exactly what this does.

To understand it you would first have to question if it should be illegal.

[motonoggin]

7 minutes ago, racer254 said:

I really just don't understand the logic behind making an illegal activity easier and more acceptable....IMO that is exactly what this does.

You think addicts are going to stop using if they don't have a place to shoot up?

[racer254]

15 minutes ago, motonoggin said:

You think addicts are going to stop using if they don't have a place to shoot up?

Do you think giving them a place to do the drugs will make them stop any quicker?

IMO, if you make access to the drugs as hard as possible, maybe they would stop....OR.  Make it legal and then make places like this where they can buy the drugs and then they can make it as safe as possible.  Why should the taxpayer fund it and the government run it?

Edited April 8, 2018 by racer254

[spin_dry]

15 minutes ago, racer254 said:

I really just don't understand the logic behind making an illegal activity easier and more acceptable....IMO that is exactly what this does.

Addiction in and of itself isn’t logical. To destroy yourself because your brain took a snapshot of how a drug once felt? I don’t deny that it feels strange. I’m with you on that. I wish we didn’t have to do any of this. But society’s approach to criminalizing addict behavior is outgagiously expensive and simply doesn’t work. If he or she steals or commits a crime, then they need to be punished. If it’s a nonviolent crime they ought to be provided with a choice. Treatment or jail. If it’s a violent crime then we’re dealing with an entirely different animal. They simply need to go away. Over 90% of these people aren’t violent. 

[SSFB]

27 minutes ago, racer254 said:

I really just don't understand the logic behind making an illegal activity easier and more acceptable....IMO that is exactly what this does.

You need to quit judging everything based on whether it's legal or illegal. When did the government become an all knowing force?

[spin_dry]

3 minutes ago, racer254 said:

Do you think giving them a place to do the drugs will make them stop any quicker?

IMO, if you make access to the drugs as hard as possible, maybe they would stop....OR.  Make it legal and then make places like this where they can buy the drugs and then they can make it as safe as possible.  Why should the taxpayer fund it and the government run it?

Tax payers are already picking up a huge tab. Overdoses and hospitalizations. The real cost of this epidemic is 20 years from now when the HepC activates after its long period of dormancy. The medical costs will be astronomical to society. These facilities can and do prevent the spread of disease 

[racer254]

1 minute ago, spin_dry said:

Tax payers are already picking up a huge tab. Overdoses and hospitalizations. The real cost of this epidemic is 20 years from now when the HepC activates after its long period of dormancy. The medical costs will be astronomical to society. These facilities can and do prevent the spread of disease 

Ok,  I just want to know the true reason for making taxpayers cover the $$$.  Taxpayers seem to be on the hook for everything these days.  Maybe they should just really rethink that logic of making the government involved in this.....let them give out vouchers for private industry to do it, then, people who have don't want to be involved, really have no skin in the game

[Highmark]

Hell give the stuff out for free but NO NARCAN and no govt paid for rehab.   If you OD then you OD.  If you get addicted get yourself off.   

There are two ways to eliminate the violence around the drug trade.   Sell it legally under very controlled manner at lower prices than the cartels can do or full military intervention in the countries of origin which includes drastic changes at the border.   Legal and illegal crossing sites included.  

[spin_dry]

2 minutes ago, racer254 said:

Ok,  I just want to know the true reason for making taxpayers cover the $$$.  Taxpayers seem to be on the hook for everything these days.  Maybe they should just really rethink that logic of making the government involved in this.....let them give out vouchers for private industry to do it, then, people who have don't want to be involved, really have no skin in the game

Who gives a shit how it gets done, as long as it gets done. I do know this much. Most, if not all of the private health care providers are pushing opiate replacement therapy. Reason being it’s a cash cow. It’s the main reason I’ve limited my exposure to private practice. I work along the lines of abstinence. Our doctors aren’t in the business of pushing legal drugs. My field of work is really at a cross roads right now. Either abstinence based or opiate replacement.