They need some new tech on exhausts of vehicles to capture these hazardous ultra fine exhaust particles.  You exhaust filters don’t really do much to capture these fine particles

 

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/03/vehicle-exhaust-filters-do-not-remove-ultrafine-pollution-new-study/

The data showed a steep decline in larger particles. Black carbon, for example, declined by 81% between 2014 and 2021. This is a clear indication that there has been a positive impact from the introduction of exhaust filters.

In contrast, however, the number of particles described as “ultrafine” — smaller than 100 nanometres — reduced by only 26%. The smallest group of particles, measuring less than 30 nanometres, did not reduce at all, giving a clear indication that filters are not effective against these types of particle. WHO guidelines define concentrations of ultrafine particles above 10,000 per cubic cm as “high”and concentrations measured at the Marylebone Road site were around twice this level.

Edited April 4, 20232 yr by BOHICA

Can we get filters on forest fires while we are at it??

26 minutes ago, Mag6240 said:

Can we get filters on forest fires while we are at it??

Volcanoes too, and maybe cow farts.

 

This is caused by direct injection. Along with increased nox. Something that is pushed to meet fuel economy standards. 

 

Have you looked in to the particulate that is cause by tire wear and how it is worse the heavier a vehicle is. You know how bev vehicles weigh alot more than their ice counter parts. 

Exhaust filters? 

8 minutes ago, Skidooski said:

Exhaust filters? 

DPF’s and in Europe gas cars also have them by regulation…. They are called OPF’s over there

16 minutes ago, Cwhite138 said:

 

This is caused by direct injection. Along with increased nox. Something that is pushed to meet fuel economy standards. 

 

Have you looked in to the particulate that is cause by tire wear and how it is worse the heavier a vehicle is. You know how bev vehicles weigh alot more than their ice counter parts. 

So pickups like 1/2 tons and above are heavier than most EV’s sold.  Is tire particulates a concern to you on those vehicles.

Edited April 4, 20232 yr by BOHICA

15 minutes ago, BOHICA said:

DPF’s and in Europe gas cars also have them by regulation…. They are called OPF’s over there

Yeah and cost the owner $5000 to replace a DPF.   

12 minutes ago, BOHICA said:

So pickups like 1/2 tons and above are heavier than most EV’s sold.  Is tire particulates a concern to you on those vehicles.

Model s weighs the same as a f150..... no matter what category the bev is heavier. 

32 minutes ago, Cwhite138 said:

Model s weighs the same as a f150..... no matter what category the bev is heavier. 

F150 is much heavier than an S.    Pickups put out more tire particulars than any sedans.  Are you really concerned about tire particulates?

11 minutes ago, BOHICA said:

F150 is much heavier than an S.    Pickups put out more tire particulars than any sedans.  Are you really concerned about tire particulates?

Nope it's not and why would a f150 put out any more particulate than a car that weigh the same? You are just making shit up. It is possible to purchase a f150 TRUCK that weighs more than the model s seadan... but base weight... S weighs more. 

 

13 minutes ago, Cwhite138 said:

Nope it's not and why would a f150 put out any more particulate than a car that weigh the same? You are just making shit up. It is possible to purchase a f150 TRUCK that weighs more than the model s seadan... but base weight... S weighs more. 

 

I’m not the one who bought up tire particulate matter.  Figure that person that brought it up is concern about it or something????

Any crew cab 4x4 weighs more then a Tesla s.  tesla S weighs about what a dodge charger weighs.  heavy pickups put out more tire particulate matter then most EV cars. Pickups are likely the most polluting of all personal transportation if weight is a thing concerning those concerned about tire vs particulates.

1 hour ago, BOHICA said:

I’m not the one who bought up tire particulate matter.  Figure that person that brought it up is concern about it or something????

Any crew cab 4x4 weighs more then a Tesla s.  tesla S weighs about what a dodge charger weighs.  heavy pickups put out more tire particulate matter then most EV cars. Pickups are likely the most polluting of all personal transportation if weight is a thing concerning those concerned about tire vs particulates.

You are back pedaling... 

lightest model s is heavier than the heaviest charger.

A 4x4 crew cab weight 4705 there model s plaid weighs 4756... there for a model S is creating more harmful rubber dust than both.

 

33 minutes ago, Cwhite138 said:

You are back pedaling... 

lightest model s is heavier than the heaviest charger.

A 4x4 crew cab weight 4705 there model s plaid weighs 4756... there for a model S is creating more harmful rubber dust than both.

 

Does particulate matter from tires concern you?  You seem passionate and wound tight about it???

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 20232 yr by BOHICA

More EV:

 

• Electric Cars

10 Cheap Electric Cars That'll Bankrupt You Through Maintenance And Repair Costs

BYEUGENIA AKHIM

PUBLISHED 1 DAY AGO

 

These EVs' price tags may be surprisingly low, but you'll be paying a fortune just to keep them on the roads.

 

Mazda

Considering that prices are rising in the U.S. every month and consumers are struggling to pay their bills, it is not surprising that gearheads have started prioritizing vehicles with low maintenance and repair costs. Back in October 2022, CNBC stated that 32 percent of Americans have paid a bill late in the past six months. But that’s not all. Bankrate highlights that one third of drivers cannot afford unforeseen auto repairs, and 7.9 percent of drivers put off routine maintenance on their vehicles. In other words, many American car aficionados are having a hard time covering the costs associated with their vehicles. In this context, EV adoption is on the rise.

Generally speaking, electric cars have lower overall maintenance costs because they have fewer parts than conventional vehicles, but repair costs are higher, according to Get Jerry.

“While maintenance costs for EVs may be lower, the service costs are quite a bit higher,” says Get Jerry. “In a three-month time frame, EV service costs were 2.3 times higher than a gas-powered car. At the 12-month point, costs were still 1.6 times higher. On average, repairs and service costs are around $306 per EV compared to $139 for gas-powered cars.”

Therefore, if you believe that by buying an EV, you’ll cut your maintenance costs to zero, think again because some cheap electric cars come with high upkeep costs. Some of the cheapest electric cars will bankrupt you through maintenance and repair costs, so read along to find out which models fall into this category.

The Edmunds prices shown are for automobiles in excellent condition. These prices are obviously starting points; therefore, buyers can locate these cars at higher prices or perhaps below this threshold but in worse situations.

RELATED:10 Best SUVs With The Lowest Maintenance Costs

102023 Chevrolet Bolt - $26,500

 

Via Chevrolet

Consumer Reports gives this Chevy an overall score of 49 out of 100 and predicts that the 2023 Chevrolet Bolt “will be much less reliable than the average new car.” CR gives it a predicted reliability score of 1 out of 5. Meanwhile, Edmunds establishes that the maintenance of the 2023 Chevrolet Bolt will cost $1,907 for the first five years and repairs will add up another $807. Just to put things into perspective, RepairPal data shows that the cost of the air compressor replacement will set you back by $1,614 to $1,658. Elsewhere, the brake booster replacement is another $1,238 to $1,287 and the heater hose replacement is at least $340.

 

92022 Mazda MX-30 - $28,998

 

Via Mazda

The 2022 Mazda MX-30 falls short not only in terms of the modest 30.0-kWh battery pack and the driving range but also in terms of reliability. CarEdge establishes it will cost roughly $7,249 to maintain and repair this vehicle during its first 10 years of service.

“There is also a 21.93 percent chance that a CX-30 will require a major repair during that time. This is 0.43 percent worse than similar vehicles in this segment,” says CarEdge.

 

82021 Volkswagen ID.4 - $33,956

 

Volkswagen

This Volkswagen ID.4 model year is famous for its bizarre features and software bugs. Owners express dissatisfaction about the lack of one-pedal driving, dependability issues, and onboard technological glitches.

“The ID.4 mimics a vehicle with an automatic transmission, so it creeps forward without the throttle depressed, and there is no way to disable it. Moreover, even in Sport mode, the accelerator seems to replicate the feel of a gasoline car, meaning that the torque delivery doesn’t feel instantaneous,” says Inside EVs.

As for onboard tech, owners complained about the infotainment system, issues with the AC and heater, outdated user interface, and other flawed features. There are already 7 recalls for this vehicle, which touch upon issues with the airbags, electrical system, steering, seat belts, and exterior lightning. The most recent recall is from February 2023, when Volkswagen had to issue a recall for 21,000 ID.4s because of faulty battery software, according to The Verge. Vehicles built between May 26, 2020, and January 20, 2022, for the model year 2021, are subject to the recall.

Given the ongoing issues with this vehicle, it is not surprising that maintenance and repair costs run high. For instance, an owner says that “the expense was pretty costly” and he had to “replace the tires much more quickly or frequently that on other cars.”

Keep in mind that Volkswagen has a bad rep because its vehicles are costly to maintain, having an average annual repair cost of $676, and this model is even pricier. For instance, a car air filter replacement for the 2021 Volkswagen ID.4 will cost you between $162.31 and $204.20, while the cabin air filter replacement will set you back another $165.79 on average. Consumer Reports gives this model an overall reliability score of 2 out of 5, pointing out that only 59 percent of owners think this vehicle has a good value for the price they paid.

 

72020 Hyundai Kona Electric - $29,998

 

via Green Car Reports

The NHTSA has issued 3 recalls for the 2020 Hyundai Kona Electric, but this is hardly surprising if we consider the fire incidents that took place all over the world. Unsurprisingly, Hyundai had to recall 76,000 units of the Kona globally. Despite the massive recall, even in 2021, Hyundai was suffering from the same issue with one Kona, for example, catching fire in Oslo. Given the ongoing reliability issues, consumers should expect this vehicle to be expensive to service and maintain.

Consumer Reports gives this model year a Reliability score of 1 out of 5, pointing out that the 2020 Hyundai Kona Electric “will be much less reliable than the average new car.” Meanwhile, Your Mechanic establishes that the brake rotor/disc - rear replacement will cost between $707.67 to $1032.89, while CarEdge highlights that the average Hyundai Kona will cost roughly $7,871 for maintenance and repairs during its first decade of service. Additionally, there is a 23.97 percent chance that a Kona will require a major repair during this period.

 

62020 Mini Cooper SE - $24,500

 

Via Bloomberg

Mini’s first-ever, EV came with an affordable price tag, but with some persistent issues. J.D. Power gave it an “Average” predicted reliability score of 79 out of 100. RepairPal establishes that the alternator replacement for this vehicle will cost between $852 and $1,324, while the turbocharger assembly replacement will set you back another $3,789 to $4,008.

“Mini Cooper owners pay an average of $850 per year in repair and maintenance costs. The cost is significantly higher than the average repair and maintenance cost of $652 for all models,” says Paddock Imports.

RELATED:10 Best Electric Cars For Performance And Comfort

 

52018 Hyundai Ioniq - $21,605

 

via cnet.com

The NHTSA issued 2 recalls for this cheap electric car because of issues with the electric system and hybrid propulsion system. Meanwhile, Consumer Reports gives the 2018 Hyundai Ioniq a score of 2 out of 5 for body integrity and 1 out of 5 for in-car electronics. Furthermore, the Ioniq is already notorious for issues with the transmission and electric system flaws. Considering its problems, buyers shouldn’t be surprised if they have to pay more for repairs and regular maintenance. Edmunds establishes owners will have to pay on average $6,125 for maintenance during 5 years and an additional $1,900 for repairs.

 

42017 Chevrolet Bolt EV- $18,295

 

Via: Chevrolet Press Room

Another Chevrolet Bolt EV on the list that won’t come cheap to repair and maintain is the 2017 model year. Your Mechanic estimates that the headlight bulb – passenger side low beam replacement for the 2017 model costs between $662.79 to $1004.96 and the axle / CV shaft assembly – passenger side front replacement comes with a cost of $714.24 to $1059.55. Meanwhile, RepairPal establishes that a radiator replacement will cost you between $766 and $837. Considering that this is an early model of the Chevy Bolt, buyers should expect to encounter several issues and flaws. J.D. Power, for example, gives this model year a Reliability score of 3 out of 5.

 

32017 Kia Niro - $15,626

 

Via KBB.com

The 2017 Kia Niro has received several complaints from owners. In fact, on Car Complaints, this model year has received 73 complaints from owners, with the most common being that the door handle broke off. Owners also complain about mice chewing the fuel line, which comes with an average repair cost of $1,200, and cruise control malfunction. If that wasn’t enough, there are also 4 recalls for this vehicle. RepairPal establishes that the average annual repair cost for this vehicle is $426.

 

22015 Nissan Leaf - $14,990

 

Via Edmunds

According to RepairPal, the average annual repair cost for the 2015 Nissan Leaf is $766. For instance, owners should expect to pay between $846 and $1,182 for the AC replacement and between $550 and $588 for the steering knuckle replacement for their 2015 Nissan Leaf.

 

12013 Fiat 500e - $12,499

 

VIA: Wikicommons Mariordo

“In August 2013, 291 of the Fiat 500e models were recalled due to an issue with bolts that secured the half-drive shafts on the car. Two other wide-scale recalls followed when battery issues were found in 2012–2014 models that caused the electric propulsion system to shut down and in 2013–2016 models when the power inverter module was found to potentially cause voltage spikes,” says HotCars contributor Nikia Hunt.

Given the ongoing issues with this cheap electric car, consumers should expect to pay more for repairs. While RepairPal establishes that the average annual repair cost for a 2013 Fiat 500 is $538, the costs associated with the electric model are higher.

Sources: Bankrate, CNBC, RepairPal, Edmunds, Consumer Reports, Car Complaints, US News, Get Jerry, Your Mechanic, CarEdge and Inside EVs.

Just a FYI.... current gen f150 is 21+ are you cherry picking data? 

It should concern any one concerned enough to post about emmisions particulate. It's really bad for the environment. 

2 hours ago, Cwhite138 said:

Just a FYI.... current gen f150 is 21+ are you cherry picking data? 

It should concern any one concerned enough to post about emmisions particulate. It's really bad for the environment. 

2023 much different in weight?

Exhaust emission particles as in OP is a different topic then tire particles.  Somebody other than me is concerned with tire emission particles.  But pickups have a massive amounts of both from tires and the exhaust pipes though

Need better tech to catch all the exhaust emission particles.

@BOHICA

See.. I asked you if you looked in to it, obviously you have not. As it dosent fit the tesla nut riding. 

 

If you care to read about it. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show

 

And, the new gen f150 is lighter on the upper end trim levels. Which puts the body on frame truck very close to tesla sedan numbers, in heaviest format. 

Now let's compare a suv... the X is heavier than any new f150 you can buy...

Edited April 4, 20232 yr by Cwhite138

5 minutes ago, Cwhite138 said:

@BOHICA

See.. I asked you if you looked in to it, obviously you have not. As it dosent fit the tesla nut riding. 

 

If you care to read about it. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/03/car-tyres-produce-more-particle-pollution-than-exhausts-tests-show

 

And, the new gen f150 is lighter on the upper end trim levels. Which puts the body on frame truck very close to tesla sedan numbers, in heaviest format. 

Now let's compare a suv... the X is heavier than any new f150 you can buy...

Dont ICE vehicles have both tire and exhaust emissions?

14 minutes ago, BOHICA said:

Dont ICE vehicles have both tire and exhaust emissions?

Sure. But to be really concerned with one and not the other dosent make sense. 

tire particulate is much worse than modern exhaust particulate. You are driving a vehicle that accelerates tire wear, maybe enough to off set ice emissions of a vehicle in its class? 

 

Oh just in case... 

Tyre = tire 

Mile = 1.6km

You guys use mg right? 

Edited April 4, 20232 yr by Cwhite138

39 minutes ago, Cwhite138 said:

Sure. But to be really concerned with one and not the other dosent make sense. 

tire particulate is much worse than modern exhaust particulate. You are driving a vehicle that accelerates tire wear, maybe enough to off set ice emissions of a vehicle in its class? 

 

If you are concerned with tire pollution then heavier vehicles are your enemy correct?  Also you are probably concern with brake emissions which are substantial as well especially in heavy ICE vehicles.

see f150 has a big engine.  Not some opf equipped euro car.  F150 is heavier than most EV’s on the road f250’s and 350’s are way heavier which leads to more tire emissions.  I guess if I was concerned about tire emission we should probably be thinking about banning pickups for personal transport or establishing a fee based on vehicle weight for tire emissions….
 

I’m ok with people having to pay a tire emission fee if you are concerned with tire emissions based on vehicle weight if it is concern.  For example a f150 should pay a higher tire emission fee vs a tesla model 3.  And a tesla model 3 driver should pay a larger fee then a Honda fit driver for tire emissions

 

Edited April 5, 20232 yr by BOHICA

3 minutes ago, BOHICA said:

If you are concerned with tire pollution then heavier vehicles are your enemy correct?  Also you are probably concern with brake emissions which are substantial as well especially in heavy ICE vehicles.

see f150 has a big engine.  Not some opf equipped euro car.  F150 is heavier than most EV’s on the road f250’s and 350’s are way heavier which leads to more tire emissions.  I guess if I was concerned about tire emission we should probably be thinking about banning pickups for personal transport or establishing a fee based on vehicle weight for tire emissions….
 

I’m ok with people having to pay a tire emission fee if you are concerned with tire emissions based on vehicle weight if it is concern.  For example a f150 should pay a higher tire emission fee vs a tesla model 3.  And a tesla model 3 driver should pay a larger fee then a Honda fit driver for tire emissions

 

If you banned a f150 for personal transportation would you ban a model x? That has no other uses than personal transportation?

 

7 minutes ago, Cwhite138 said:

If you banned a f150 for personal transportation would you ban a model x? That has no other uses than personal transportation?

 

Sure..  if I was concerned with tire pollution

or establish a fee based on GVWR of vehicle for tire emissions.  Higher the gvwr the higher the annual fee for tire emissions.  Fee could be used to develop less harmful emission tires

 

what your feelings on the matter since you are concerned with heavier vehicles tire emission

Edited April 5, 20232 yr by BOHICA

I'm not sure you grasp the concept that particulate emmsions no matter their origin are the same. Which is made worse by heavy vehicles, this is on average worse for BEVs.

Unlike you i do not think taxing the general public for emmisions is not the answer when there are much larger single emitters.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Cwhite138 said:

I'm not sure you grasp the concept that particulate emmsions no matter their origin are the same. Which is made worse by heavy vehicles, this is on average worse for BEVs.

Unlike you i do not think taxing the general public for emmisions is not the answer when there are much larger single emitters.

 

 

If tech is there I’m all for lowering particulates emissions even if it cost more to have healthier air and enviroment?

 

Are you?