Gold Member BOHICA Posted June 20, 2016 Gold Member Share Posted June 20, 2016 Prolly all are going to fail along party lines. 2 repub and 2 dem bills. http://www.npr.org/2016/06/20/482783071/here-are-the-4-gun-proposals-the-senate-is-voting-on-monday-again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Those both look somewhat reasonable. But I would like to read the whole thing and not just "snippets" to see what which party put in caveats and little shit-lines that will probably sink these......like whose hometown will receive $765M for a new golf course club house. And who's state will receive "restructuring" money to build a bridge people will rarely use but pay tolls when they do. Or, who gets whatever bill passed "guaranteed" for some other worthless shit in the future that will ensure a nice re-election platform. ETC....ETC.....ETC...... If any of you think that doesn't happen, get your hands on any recently passed bill and look at all the clauses it took to get each signature to get it passed. Talk about being "hoodwinked". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 we also cannot rely on the supreme court as they are refusing to here cases on gun control ....I am guessing they refused to hear the most recent case because thy knew it would be split 4-4 and useless to hear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1jkw Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 To notify the FBI if someone on the list tries to buy a gun seems reasonable, but if they already interviewed them and found nothing to charge them with. How does buying a gun make them guilty? Unless we are now going to be guilty until proven innocent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member BOHICA Posted June 20, 2016 Author Gold Member Share Posted June 20, 2016 On the cliff note version posted in the article, feinstein's bill is unreasonable. Other 3 if nothing else is attached are workable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 11 minutes ago, 1jkw said: To notify the FBI if someone on the list tries to buy a gun seems reasonable, but if they already interviewed them and found nothing to charge them with. How does buying a gun make them guilty? Unless we are now going to be guilty until proven innocent. exactly and that is what this is about...providing precedent for the government to violate your rights based on nothing more than suspicion or hearsay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebsell Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 22 minutes ago, f7ben said: we also cannot rely on the supreme court as they are refusing to here cases on gun control ....I am guessing they refused to hear the most recent case because thy knew it would be split 4-4 and useless to hear That is so stupid. There was a judge recommended and it was shot down by the Republicans. Funny thing everyone thought he would be a great addition at one time. Stupidity is holding cases like this up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1jkw Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 2 minutes ago, f7ben said: exactly and that is what this is about...providing precedent for the government to violate your rights based on nothing more than suspicion or hearsay I remember way back when all the NSA stuff started and all the people who said " if your not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about" a certain amount of bad shit is going to happen no matter how many laws are passed, we need to weigh what we gain versus what we lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 4 minutes ago, 1jkw said: I remember way back when all the NSA stuff started and all the people who said " if your not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about" a certain amount of bad shit is going to happen no matter how many laws are passed, we need to weigh what we gain versus what we lose. the same people still say that .....bootlickers are predisposed to bootlicking....that will never change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1jkw Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 1 minute ago, f7ben said: the same people still say that .....bootlickers are predisposed to bootlicking....that will never change There were some who changed their tune when the party of the pres. changed, although they won't admit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold War Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 16 minutes ago, 1jkw said: I remember way back when all the NSA stuff started and all the people who said " if your not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about" a certain amount of bad shit is going to happen no matter how many laws are passed, we need to weigh what we gain versus what we lose. Right. The problem is it never ends. Take the seat belt law. It was reasonable for the police to issue you a ticket if you were stopped not wearing it. No way would you be pulled over for not wearing it. Now they have seat belt check points. Which is just another excuse to invade your personal space and property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1jkw Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 7 minutes ago, Cold War said: Right. The problem is it never ends. Take the seat belt law. It was reasonable for the police to issue you a ticket if you were stopped not wearing it. No way would you be pulled over for not wearing it. Now they have seat belt check points. Which is just another excuse to invade your personal space and property. The idea a cop can make you get out of your car and search it because he suspects something, is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 1 minute ago, 1jkw said: The idea a cop can make you get out of your car and search it because he suspects something, is wrong. Actually, under just plain suspicion, they cannot without your permission. And they also cannot threaten you to do so or it will be impounded. They need probable cause meaning a fact or evidence they have witnessed to search without your permission once they get a search warrant....AND THEY MUST HAVE ONE TO DO SO. Cops have a sneaky way and a few really good questions that guilty parties, even if only a little bit guilty, allow them to follow through with it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold War Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 3 minutes ago, 1jkw said: The idea a cop can make you get out of your car and search it because he suspects something, is wrong. Your car is no different than your home. It is your personal space. Randomly stopping citizens to "check them out" is what a lot of Americans died to prevent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold War Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 1 minute ago, Zambroski said: Actually, under just plain suspicion, they cannot without your permission. And they also cannot threaten you to do so or it will be impounded. They need probable cause meaning a fact or evidence they have witnessed to search without your permission once they get a search warrant....AND THEY MUST HAVE ONE TO DO SO. Cops have a sneaky way and a few really good questions that guilty parties, even if only a little bit guilty, allow them to follow through with it all. Well, with drunk driving or drug laws they can seize your assets, drivers license, without being convicted of anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebsell Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 5 minutes ago, Cold War said: Your car is no different than your home. It is your personal space. Randomly stopping citizens to "check them out" is what a lot of Americans died to prevent. I don't think to many Soldiers who died in combat would give a rats ass about someone being inconvenienced by a stop check for dui. Nice try though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1jkw Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 6 minutes ago, Zambroski said: Actually, under just plain suspicion, they cannot without your permission. And they also cannot threaten you to do so or it will be impounded. They need probable cause meaning a fact or evidence they have witnessed to search without your permission once they get a search warrant....AND THEY MUST HAVE ONE TO DO SO. Cops have a sneaky way and a few really good questions that guilty parties, even if only a little bit guilty, allow them to follow through with it all. They can order you out of the car and frisk you, you are right without probable cause they can't search your car if you don't give permission, but the cop can say I smelled pot and that is probable cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold War Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 1 minute ago, Ebsell said: I don't think to many Soldiers who died in combat would give a rats ass about someone being inconvenienced by a stop check for dui. Nice try though Having the state stop you for no reason, search your property to try and convict you of a crime is an inconvenience to you? OK comrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebsell Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 1 minute ago, Cold War said: Having the state stop you for no reason, search your property to try and convict you of a crime is an inconvenience to you? OK comrade. Fuck some Americans are whiny lol. I have been stopped plenty of times for no reason and they never even searched my car. They don't smell booze they wave me on. Takes less than a minute. If it keeps a few drunks off the road I have no problem with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 12 minutes ago, Ebsell said: I don't think to many Soldiers who died in combat would give a rats ass about someone being inconvenienced by a stop check for dui. Nice try though I think you would be wrong ....of course you are canadian and think nothing of having rights given and taken at a whim by your dear government 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold War Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 2 minutes ago, Ebsell said: Fuck some Americans are whiny lol. I have been stopped plenty of times for no reason and they never even searched my car. They don't smell booze they wave me on. Takes less than a minute. If it keeps a few drunks off the road I have no problem with it. You have been stopped plenty of times for no reason and have no problem with it? Lol. Damn some Canadians are sheep. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f7ben Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 yup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 8 minutes ago, Cold War said: Well, with drunk driving or drug laws they can seize your assets, drivers license, without being convicted of anything. But only if you are drunk and then only temporarily until you are convicted. It has to go through the process. And if they pull you over and they smell achohol, that still doesn't give them the right to search your vehicle. And if they jerk you around and you don't blow over the limit then...Oooops. The law is now in your favor. 2 minutes ago, 1jkw said: They can order you out of the car and frisk you, you are right without probable cause they can't search your car if you don't give permission, but the cop can say I smelled pot and that is probable cause. They cannot just frisk you unless they feel you may have a weapon on you, they are most likely to just "pat you down". Your body is private property too and again, without probably cause, well, "No sir, I will not consent to a search of my vehicle and person." Think they can just arrest you? NOPE. They now need a warrant...which they will usually get while you wait, but it's not always guaranteed. But just guess what a cluster it is for them when they find nothing, they have nothing, you are guilty of nothing...again....Ooops. Oh, while you are doing all this and "exercising your constitutional rights", keep in mind, they've been through this a time before...and if you are guilty of anything at all to save their asses, they'll find it. And if not, they have a way of making you do or say something that softens their paperwork. Politeness goes a long way in maybe easing the shit load of problems they are about to start stacking on you. Now, my disclaimer, I'm not an attorney, but I do stay at a Holiday Inn express whenever possible. But, in all seriousness, short of maybe two or three incidents with the law where I CLEARLY deserved my extra ration of shit, I've rarely had any real problems with them and I've had quite a few "moments" up that road. I also know when I am in some trouble and don't act like a complete ass-clown. Being kind and polite can go A LONG way...course, in a pinch, that roll of toilet paper makes a nice pillow whilst you enjoy getting your thoughts together in solitary confinement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebsell Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Maybe it's because most cops here aren't pricks has nothing to do with being a sheep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebsell Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Or it could be you guys lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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