motonoggin Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Highmark said: So their economy depends solely on the US? Its a laughable claim that all their economic woes are caused by the US. Name a socialist country that hasn't been couped by the CIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold War Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 I can't stand it. I know you planned it its a sabotage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted April 12, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, motonoggin said: Name a socialist country that hasn't been couped by the CIA Venezuela. Maybe China but none of the rest. http://blog.peerform.com/top-ten-most-socialist-countries-in-the-world/ China Denmark Finland Netherlands Canada Sweden Norway Ireland New Zealand Belgium Edited April 12, 2018 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Highmark said: Venezuela. The 1948 Venezuelan coup d'état took place on 24 November 1948, when Carlos Delgado Chalbaud, Marcos Pérez Jiménez and Luis Felipe Llovera Páez overthrew the elected president Rómulo Gallegos. Gallegos had been elected in the Venezuelan presidential election, 1947 (generally believed to be the country's first honest election) and taken office in February 1948. Chalbaud had been Gallegos' Minister of Defense. Democracy would not be restored until the 1958 Venezuelan coup d'état overthrew the dictator Marcos Pérez Jiménez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted April 12, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted April 12, 2018 1 minute ago, motonoggin said: The 1948 Venezuelan coup d'état took place on 24 November 1948, when Carlos Delgado Chalbaud, Marcos Pérez Jiménez and Luis Felipe Llovera Páez overthrew the elected president Rómulo Gallegos. Gallegos had been elected in the Venezuelan presidential election, 1947 (generally believed to be the country's first honest election) and taken office in February 1948. Chalbaud had been Gallegos' Minister of Defense. Democracy would not be restored until the 1958 Venezuelan coup d'état overthrew the dictator Marcos Pérez Jiménez. Nice cut and paste from Wiki. Now please indicate where the CIA did that? Considering it wasn't even officially formed until 1947. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, Highmark said: Venezuela. Maybe China but none of the rest. http://blog.peerform.com/top-ten-most-socialist-countries-in-the-world/ China Denmark Finland Netherlands Canada Sweden Norway Ireland New Zealand Belgium All state capitalist, not socialist. 2 minutes ago, Highmark said: Nice cut and paste from Wiki. Now please indicate where the CIA did that? Considering it wasn't even officially formed until 1947. It's a south American coup, so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted April 12, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, motonoggin said: All state capitalist, not socialist. It's a south American coup, so... Oh well that makes it clear then. Come on man, put down the bong and post up some evidence. https://fee.org/articles/why-socialism-failed/ Marxists like to compare a theoretically perfect version of socialism with practical, imperfect capitalism which allows them to claim that socialism is superior to capitalism. Edited April 12, 2018 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Highmark said: Oh well that makes it clear then. Come on man, put down the bong and post up some evidence. You saying that the CIA never tried to coup Venezuela? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted April 12, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, motonoggin said: You saying that the CIA never tried to coup Venezuela? I don't find much record of them doing so. I think maybe now their involvement there is greater than the coup's you claim. Marxists like to compare a theoretically perfect version of socialism with practical, imperfect capitalism which allows them to claim that socialism is superior to capitalism. If perfection really were an available option, the choice of economic and political systems would be irrelevant. In a world with perfect beings and infinite abundance, any economic or political system–socialism, capitalism, fascism, or communism–would work perfectly. However, the choice of economic and political institutions is crucial in an imperfect universe with imperfect beings and limited resources. In a world of scarcity, it is essential for an economic system to be based on a clear incentive structure to promote economic efficiency. The real choice we face is between imperfect capitalism and imperfect socialism. Given that choice, the evidence of history overwhelmingly favors capitalism as the greatest wealth-producing economic system available. https://fee.org/articles/why-socialism-failed/ Edited April 12, 2018 by Highmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 26 minutes ago, Highmark said: So their economy depends solely on the US? Its a laughable claim that all their economic woes are caused by the US. Hilariously and astonishingly laughable. I've seen flat earth arguments that make more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted April 12, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted April 12, 2018 1 minute ago, ZamHammer said: Hilariously and astonishingly laughable. I've seen flat earth arguments that make more sense. Coup's he can't even provide evidence of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 "I didn't find any admission from a secret government agency that they've attempted a coup in Venezuela" US Central Intelligence Agency Director Mike Pompeo has admitted the US is working to change the elected government of Venezuela, and collaborating with Colombia and Mexico to do so. While it's the first public acknowledgement of US meddling in the embattled country, Latin American political analysts likely won’t be surprized. https://sputniknews.com/military/201707261055890332-us-venezuela-coup-latinamerica/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 https://www.globalresearch.ca/a-timeline-of-cia-atrocities/5348804 A Timeline of CIA Atrocities Steve Kangas The following timeline describes just a few of the hundreds of atrocities and crimes committed by the CIA. (1) CIA operations follow the same recurring script. First, American business interests abroad are threatened by a popular or democratically elected leader. The people support their leader because he intends to conduct land reform, strengthen unions, redistribute wealth, nationalize foreign-owned industry, and regulate business to protect workers, consumers and the environment. So, on behalf of American business, and often with their help, the CIA mobilizes the opposition. First it identifies right-wing groups within the country (usually the military), and offers them a deal: “We’ll put you in power if you maintain a favorable business climate for us.” The Agency then hires, trains and works with them to overthrow the existing government (usually a democracy). It uses every trick in the book: propaganda, stuffed ballot boxes, purchased elections, extortion, blackmail, sexual intrigue, false stories about opponents in the local media, infiltration and disruption of opposing political parties, kidnapping, beating, torture, intimidation, economic sabotage, death squads and even assassination. These efforts culminate in a military coup, which installs a right-wing dictator. The CIA trains the dictator’s security apparatus to crack down on the traditional enemies of big business, using interrogation, torture and murder. The victims are said to be “communists,” but almost always they are just peasants, liberals, moderates, labor union leaders, political opponents and advocates of free speech and democracy. Widespread human rights abuses follow. This scenario has been repeated so many times that the CIA actually teaches it in a special school, the notorious “School of the Americas.” (It opened in Panama but later moved to Fort Benning, Georgia.) Critics have nicknamed it the “School of the Dictators” and “School of the Assassins.” Here, the CIA trains Latin American military officers how to conduct coups, including the use of interrogation, torture and murder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted April 12, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted April 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, Highmark said: I don't find much record of them doing so. I think maybe now their involvement there is greater than the coup's you claim. Marxists like to compare a theoretically perfect version of socialism with practical, imperfect capitalism which allows them to claim that socialism is superior to capitalism. If perfection really were an available option, the choice of economic and political systems would be irrelevant. In a world with perfect beings and infinite abundance, any economic or political system–socialism, capitalism, fascism, or communism–would work perfectly. However, the choice of economic and political institutions is crucial in an imperfect universe with imperfect beings and limited resources. In a world of scarcity, it is essential for an economic system to be based on a clear incentive structure to promote economic efficiency. The real choice we face is between imperfect capitalism and imperfect socialism. Given that choice, the evidence of history overwhelmingly favors capitalism as the greatest wealth-producing economic system available. https://fee.org/articles/why-socialism-failed/ 2 minutes ago, motonoggin said: "I didn't find any admission from a secret government agency that they've attempted a coup in Venezuela" US Central Intelligence Agency Director Mike Pompeo has admitted the US is working to change the elected government of Venezuela, and collaborating with Colombia and Mexico to do so. While it's the first public acknowledgement of US meddling in the embattled country, Latin American political analysts likely won’t be surprized. https://sputniknews.com/military/201707261055890332-us-venezuela-coup-latinamerica/ What about all those previous Coups? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted April 12, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted April 12, 2018 1 minute ago, motonoggin said: https://www.globalresearch.ca/a-timeline-of-cia-atrocities/5348804 A Timeline of CIA Atrocities Steve Kangas The following timeline describes just a few of the hundreds of atrocities and crimes committed by the CIA. (1) CIA operations follow the same recurring script. First, American business interests abroad are threatened by a popular or democratically elected leader. The people support their leader because he intends to conduct land reform, strengthen unions, redistribute wealth, nationalize foreign-owned industry, and regulate business to protect workers, consumers and the environment. So, on behalf of American business, and often with their help, the CIA mobilizes the opposition. First it identifies right-wing groups within the country (usually the military), and offers them a deal: “We’ll put you in power if you maintain a favorable business climate for us.” The Agency then hires, trains and works with them to overthrow the existing government (usually a democracy). It uses every trick in the book: propaganda, stuffed ballot boxes, purchased elections, extortion, blackmail, sexual intrigue, false stories about opponents in the local media, infiltration and disruption of opposing political parties, kidnapping, beating, torture, intimidation, economic sabotage, death squads and even assassination. These efforts culminate in a military coup, which installs a right-wing dictator. The CIA trains the dictator’s security apparatus to crack down on the traditional enemies of big business, using interrogation, torture and murder. The victims are said to be “communists,” but almost always they are just peasants, liberals, moderates, labor union leaders, political opponents and advocates of free speech and democracy. Widespread human rights abuses follow. This scenario has been repeated so many times that the CIA actually teaches it in a special school, the notorious “School of the Americas.” (It opened in Panama but later moved to Fort Benning, Georgia.) Critics have nicknamed it the “School of the Dictators” and “School of the Assassins.” Here, the CIA trains Latin American military officers how to conduct coups, including the use of interrogation, torture and murder. Never claimed the CIA does or did the right things throughout its history. I just disagree with your assessment that every socialist country the CIA tried to coup. Again your article simply mentions South America, not Venezuela. The cases of coups by the CIA in South America are well documented and it doesn't include Venezuela. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Highmark said: Never claimed the CIA does or did the right things throughout its history. I just disagree with your assessment that every socialist country the CIA tried to coup. Again your article simply mentions South America, not Venezuela. The cases of coups by the CIA in South America are well documented and it doesn't include Venezuela. Lol, they were trying to coup Venezuela throughout the entire GWB administration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted April 12, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted April 12, 2018 1 minute ago, motonoggin said: Lol, they were trying to coup Venezuela throughout the entire GWB administration. Post it up. Is that why they are having so many economical issues. Failed coup attempts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/apr/21/usa.venezuela Just now, Highmark said: Post it up. Is that why they are having so many economical issues. Failed coup attempts? Yeah, political turmoil never effects economic health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted April 12, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted April 12, 2018 Just now, motonoggin said: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/apr/21/usa.venezuela Yeah, political turmoil never effects economic health. 1. Was it successful? You have made this assertion before. Now the question seems to be evolving from couped to attempted coup. 2. A supposed coup attempt 25+ years ago is still causing economic strife that is getting worse and worse? The real choice we face is between imperfect capitalism and imperfect socialism. Given that choice, the evidence of history overwhelmingly favors capitalism as the greatest wealth-producing economic system available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Highmark Posted April 12, 2018 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted April 12, 2018 Can't debate the facts.....resort to memes. Video representations of noggin when it gets to the point of posting memes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motonoggin Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 When I start with the memes, it just means I don't think you're worth the keystrokes anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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