Remember when absolute retards actually thought that the US never blew up nord stream?

[Highmark]

27 minutes ago, akvanden said:

Not in the same quantity in the short term. And certainly not a reason for the US to destroy a pipeline for some additional inefficient LNG ships with huge downside potential. 

Sure they can, but that doesn't help the EU, the ones supporting Ukraine. 
 

That's their strategy right now, so no, not foolish. Don't act like the idea of using energy as a tool to break the EUs solidarity is a new concept to you. OR, shifting blame for the damage amongst allies so they can bicker amongst themselves which also erodes solidarity. 
 

Like outlasting the west now that we're a year into this? Either than or get booted from power. Doesn't sound like any other choice. 
 

That's up to Ukraine whether or not they want to defend their country. I certainly would want the opportunity to defend mine if invaded.
 

Is this the part where we both start finding humor?

 

3 hours ago, Highmark said:

Russia doesn't know that the US and Norway can supply energy?   Russia doesn't know they can just sell NG to China, NK and plenty of other places?  Be pretty foolish for Russia to think they can "outlast" the west.   Who ever has been able and willing to borrow or print money like us?

Russia doesn't lose wars unless the govt collapses.   

How many Ukrainian soldiers do you find acceptable to die because we now have a new found hatred for Russia?  Russia might be willing to lose 500K or more.  How many Ukrainians die and how much of their country will be destroyed?  To Russia this is about their own security.  Its crazy people like you can't see that but then again you think NATO is just a defensive organization with no offensive capabilities.       

So how many Ukrainian's dying is acceptable?   How much of their country being destroyed is acceptable?  How much money are you willing to throw at it to win and reconstruct?  Should we not think of our own financial demise?  

The point isn't whether or not Ukraine has a right to fight or if I was a citizen there I wouldn't want to.   The point remains you have to be really obtuse to not understand even slightly Russia's side to this.  Just look at what Zelenskyy was saying in late 2021.   

People on here who support Ukraine always ask wouldn't you want to fight?   Absolutely.  How about would you find it acceptable for China/Russia/NK/Iran to put bases all over Mexico and Canada?  I wouldn't so why would we think Russia would find it acceptable to be surrounded by NATO bases?

As far as the pipeline goes I stand by both sides having reason to do it and Putin actually has done many of the things he spoke about.....destroying the pipeline isn't one of them yet even our President said the pipeline could not go forward no matter what.  I also stand by the fact that nobody on the NATO side seems to present any evidence of Russia doing it is also telling.     

[akvanden]

14 minutes ago, Highmark said:

So how many Ukrainian's dying is acceptable?   How much of their country being destroyed is acceptable?  How much money are you willing to throw at it to win and reconstruct?  Should we not think of our own financial demise?  

I can't answer that subjective question, just like I said I couldn't earlier. Only Ukraine can. And no, we can't do this forever. We need to balance costs with our strategic objectives and will ultimately need to determine where that cutoff is. I don't think Ukraine will be able to push Russia completely out. But the damage is already done to Russia regardless, and that's a strategic win for the west. 
 

21 minutes ago, Highmark said:

People on here who support Ukraine always ask wouldn't you want to fight?   Absolutely.  How about would you find it acceptable for China/Russia/NK/Iran to put bases all over Mexico and Canada?  I wouldn't so why would we think Russia would find it acceptable to be surrounded by NATO bases?

We don't threaten our neighbors with attack, invasion and illegal annexation of their land. Sweden and Finland aren't joining just so they can proactively threaten Russia. They do so out of safety concerns which time and time again Russia keeps proving they should fear. 

 

24 minutes ago, Highmark said:

As far as the pipeline goes I stand by both sides having reason to do it and Putin actually has done many of the things he spoke about.....destroying the pipeline isn't one of them yet even our President said the pipeline could not go forward no matter what.  I also stand by the fact that nobody on the NATO side seems to present any evidence of Russia doing it is also telling.     

Agree to disagree, I guess. 

[Rod]

Biden literally said he would end the pipeline

[Highmark]

2 minutes ago, akvanden said:

I can't answer that subjective question, just like I said I couldn't earlier. Only Ukraine can. And no, we can't do this forever. We need to balance costs with our strategic objectives and will ultimately need to determine where that cutoff is. I don't think Ukraine will be able to push Russia completely out. But the damage is already done to Russia regardless, and that's a strategic win for the west. 
 

We don't threaten our neighbors with attack, invasion and illegal annexation of their land. Sweden and Finland aren't joining just so they can proactively threaten Russia. They do so out of safety concerns which time and time again Russia keeps proving they should fear. 

 

Agree to disagree, I guess. 

I believe other countries find us more of a threat than we claim not to be.  We have military bases all over the world.   Sure it can appear to us and our allies and we can claim that its defensive but you can't for an instance see how other countries see them?

Since the fall of the soviet union how much of Russian aggression can be looked at thru another spectrum of protecting themselves vs expansion?

 

[Rod]

Then when pressure by a reporter how he could accomplish that when the pipeline didn’t belong to the US, Biden said “we will get it done”

 

[Anler]

20 hours ago, akvanden said:

Germany is no threat to the US. And what awful timing when we need Germany’s support in Ukraine.  Sorry, the political risks are far too great in exchange for some inefficient LNG tankers. Huge downside potential, marginal upside.

 

Only one side has financial incentive?!?! This war is bleeding Russia dry and you don’t think they have a financial and political reason to want it to come to a swift end in their favor? 

No