Ziemann

@Doug That thing is huge. It would be fun to groom with, but would be way too heavy for us up here. In farm country tho, that thing is sweet! We made the mistake of going with a 7 Series New Holland and even that was WAY too big for us up here. The weight of the 7 Series (w/ bucket) with Soucy Tracks put us over weight on many of our bridges. A machine that big also won't cross a soft swamp...... So, all of the clubs in our county (except one) have now gone to Tuckers. They are NOT perfect, but work well for our trail system and terrain. Every machine has plus's/minus's- and what works for one club won't work for the next club. I think it is awesome that you guys can have equipment like that and get income thru relationships with local farmers. WIN/WIN. Well done!

So, Cat does the absolute bare minimum at Hay Days to catch up to Ski-Doo and Polaris. What exactly did they do to differentiate themselves and gain marketshare? At least they put themselves in a position where people will at least take an apples to apples look at what they have to offer. Unfortunately, the new Cat big bore will never be top dog in the 800 class '25. Both Polaris and Ski-Doo will come out with bigger iron this spring to take a shit on Cat's latest offering...... And in '25, Cat will again be on the bottom....

I remember when County Cat was THE place to buy noncurrent sleds and clothing. I purchased a few sleds there that were noncurrents including a '06 ZR900 and a '08 F6 SnoPro. I bought a ton of noncurrent bibs from them back in the day including leathers (yeah, I did that back then) and full Goretex suits. The online sales game along with manufacturers no longer carrying over product killed Country Cat's identity. I no longer see deals on much of anything at Country Cat any more. The good news is that they still seem to have a great parts inventory, and I can get delivery via Spee-Dee Deliver the next day. It would be interesting to know how their Kawasaki dirt sales compare to their Cat ATV/UTV sales.....

Yup yup :-) 20230323_142134.mp4

Cat is in the spotlight at Hay Days. Every sledhead is watching. Probably the best reveal at Hay Days was when they delivered one of the race sleds by helicopter to the booth....... I wish I could find a pic of that.....

Let's fix this thread to something we all can appreciate......

The Catalyst release last year what was enticed me to attend. It'll be interesting to see if the crowd for the engine release this year exceeds last year's craziness.

With that said.....I have to say that I go to Hay days every damn year. And this year? Meh...... I'm just not feeling it. I really don't need any gear. I'm not in the market for a new sled. And I really don't need anything in swap. The last couple of years, the only thing that I've bought is a 5 gallon pail of Klotz from Northern Synthetics.....

Jim- you continue to be your own worst enemy. Arctic Cat must absolutely hate having you on their side. Cat's marketing department must cringe every time they hear your name..... ***Maybe Jim is a double agent? Jim is actually a BRP employee and this is just a scheme by the Ski-Doo/BRP marketing department just to make Cat look bad?**

Of course- you've always been objective and able to make your points with credibility......

I'd assume that the excess M's and Riots will sell quickly in the fall- even with a 600. The off trail U.P. crowd will slurp up those excess Riots..... The pics of that ancient gauge on Cat's latest, most innovative sleds speaks volumes.... I'm still torn. I WANT to like the Catalyst, because I still have a misplaced loyalty to Cat after 30+ years of new Cat ownership..... BUT, after beating this dead horse now for the last 6 months, I still don't get it. Objectively speaking, I still don't see anything on paper that would motivate someone like me into going back to Cat. I'm interested, but frankly other than the Catalyst being bright and shiny, there's nothing there that's all that compelling. What is it that should be swaying me away from my Matryx VR-1?????

@krom , this is probably the best assessment that I have ever seen anyone post anywhere. Well played, Sir....

Frankly, Cat is being really conservative- it took them forever to bring out the Catalyst, and then they offered the revised 600. Very Conservative. So for a new engine, I don't expect anything crazy. An 850. Another conservative "Me Too" offering similar to what the Catalyst is. When it was time for my wife to buy a new sled, she asked about a reliable sled, AND longevity (which shocked the hell outta me). So, I was honest. She chose a left over '17 Suzuki 800 in her ZR8000 LXR, and she has been happy ever since. My Cat C-tec2 600's treated me well in my RR & Roger Skime. So, I'd consider buying a new Cat 600- once it is proven. Unfortunately, my riding buddy still hasn't been able to get his 800 to run right, or be anywhere as reliable as the 600. My next sled will likely be my retirement sled, SO in order for me to even consider a Cat, the Catalyst release needs to be pretty flawless. My Polaris VR-1 650 has been a joy to own...... and it is going to be tough for Cat to pull me back in....

...

Random thoughts: -Regardless of weight, the Catalyst is a big step forward for Cat. I still see it as a "me too" sled, offering nothing to bring back Cat's lost customers (that left for Poo & Doo). The lack of weight loss is a missed opportunity to get people's attention. I still don't see anything to compel me to consider a Catalyst other than the fact that I still have a nostalgic attraction to Cat as a brand. I'm assuming that some of us will at least give it consideration for that same reason when it is time to buy new iron- but I won't be in that group for another 2 years. By then the teething problems of the early Catalyst models should be all ironed out, and it should be reasonably refined. As long as that sled isn't a pig, I'll give it a fair shot. -After being an early adopter of several Cat products- I felt like an abused spouse. My Cat buying habits were the definition of INSANITY. Polaris didn't exactly do a perfect job with the early Matryx either, but in retrospect it was still a fairly decent launch due to its closeness to the Axys. -My Matryx VR-1 isn't a feather weight by any means, but the fun factor is very high. If Cat is able to achieve that level of fun factor, and still be a reasonable weight, it's probably worthy of consideration.

Apples to apples, how does that compare to a comparable Matryx or MX-Z?

The Duluth Air Show is a fantastic show. Just like any show, be very patient, and take your time getting around because it is a huge crowd. Last year, we sat in the Sam's Club parking lot about a mile from the airport and watched the Thunderbirds......

Been there...done that....and have the scars to show for it. Obviously, there will be this new 600 engine for '24, and a new big bore for '25. So?? You're going to wait for the '26 model before the issues are ironed out? I'll reevaluate a year from now once the Catalysts are in wide circulation and people post some real world riding on them. By then there should be the expanded engine options, better instrumentation, and more accessories to choose from. By then, Cat should be closer to offering something similar to what Poo and Doo are offering. I can wait.

....

I'm currently at 2200 miles riding for the season, and an unknown number of miles in the groomer. We still have a ton of snow in the woods in NW Wisconsin- almost more snow than anywhere in the upper midwest. We are continuing to groom at night and early mornings, and the trails are still holding up well. With the warm sticky snow, we have had to modify our grooming techniques to keep the snow flowing thru the drag and effectively process it. Creeks and swamps will open up and shut down some of our trails before we run out of snow. Our current plan is to continue to groom this week and if possible be open through April 2nd (longer if Mother Nature cooperates). Unlike Minnesota, we are not bound by statute to close our trails on March 31st. It is a county by county decision based on easements. It has been an epic season here. And it's not over yet. We're hoping to make it for 7 more days....if not more. 20230323_142134.mp4

Again- not a troll at all. I think it's an honest question. And it has to be frustrating to not be able to answer that question. Because @Deephaven is 100% right. You should be able to. Polaris certainly has some work to do to overcome the recalls, stop rides, delayed deliveries, and parts limitations. So the door is open for the Catalyst to recapture marketshare. The question is how? No one seems to be able to answer that. It's more likely that Ski-Doo will continue to grow at the expense of Polaris, than Cat growing at the expense of Polaris. I was there just like everyone else for the Hay Days release- but when you objectively look at it? The engine has promise, but no one trusts it yet. The belt drive has promise, but no one really seems all that interested in it. The chassis is reportedly really fun and handles great- but that is subjective. Instrumentation is very weak. Accessories and spring ordering options are very limited. Cost is high- but so is the cost of every sled. I was very happy with Cat's 600's in my RR's and Roger Skime. So, as long as the new 600 has the same reliability, it should be a winner for someone like me. As I get older, I can no longer ride like I used to- so a 600 is now enough for me. Unfortunately, the market wants a 850 class motor and the 600 class motor appeals to a significantly smaller crowd. Not a troll- just a reality check.

Perfectly stated @Deephaven. Because a "I saw it on the internet", "I read it on Supertrax", or because Jim Ramstad said so?????? Again, the Catalyst is cool, but once the newness wears off, are we going to care? REALLY- where's the novelty in it?

@Premium Hell, a lot of people have no idea how to wrench on a sled any more. In the old days it was a necessity. So, few will see the same benefit of belt drive for track changes, etc as you do. I agree with you 100%, but I think you are the exception more than the rule. Hell, I hardly turn a wrench on a sled any more. I don't need to. I also don't work on other people's sleds any more. Reliability is excellent, and outside of preventative preseason maintenance, I rarely touch a sled now. I do miss tinkering.

Not a troll at all. Just a reality check..... What do you think a loyal Ski-Doo or Polaris customer will see in the Catalyst to get them to switch brands?