jdsky

They absolutely 100% care about their position in the market and sales. It's all that fucking matters to any business owners or share holders. Who do you think Porsche or Ferrari compare themselves to? Fucking arctic cat? Get real.

Said nobody in business fucking ever...

Not that I really need to reply to your bullshit but just like they have always provided that information in the spec sheets previously? Here's one. Point out where that info is located....

Poo also has weights posted in their specs. For the SP 650 137 it's 499lbs. For some fucking reason cat is not as proud of their sled weights as some of their brand fans are other than "it sure feels light and playful." Of course it does when directly compared to a fucking procross. That's called a riding position that is completely different and just like doo and poo have had for years and years now. Will they sell every one they can produce? Of course they will, that's why they priced them so high. Exactly how many will they sell for 2024? Nobody will ever know until someone is able to post market share to see if cat has made any progress. My guess? They won't gain any significant share for 24 because only fucking dumstads will pay more for all the old chassis' they are still pushing and a shit ton of enthusiasts of the sport have no interest in buying a 600 and are going to be shocked when the poo 650 spanks it across a lake.

The Doo is available in either a 129 or 137 option and the weights are right on the spec sheet. 465lbs for the 129 version and that is with electric start. Regardless of the shit that keeps getting posted everyone has known for years that the procross is/was heavier and the fucking catalyst will be within a few pounds but again, who the fuck really cares? I don't make my sled buying decisions based on a few pounds. The single largest factor for 24'? The doo is no longer the most expensive sled on the market. That is significant for most people shopping without their fucking dumstad goggles on.

Add to that anyone that finances is at 7 or 8%. Something's gotta give eventually.

Yep, you need to add 700 bucks to the price in order to compare.

Man those 07' phazer 500 4 strokes were absolute fucking garbage handling sleds. A rider in our group had to rent one and I hopped on it just for shits. The shittiest handling thing ever and that anemic 4 stroke motor just made it worse. He took it back to the rental place that same day. Not riding at all was better than riding that thing.

That's also what I paid for my 20'. What's the new yamacat going to be? $25K? At least I'm not riding the most expensive brand anymore. Cat definitely decided to lead just with high prices. Will be interesting to see what Poo does on the pricing side. Now that they know what the competition is doing they could easily undercut everyone and drive a lot of Spring orders. They had the most leftover sleds at my dealers so might not be a bad strategy for them.

So much for anyone hoping cat would lower prices for 24'. More than doo across the board. catalyst is $1K more? thunderwinder is $2K more? That sucks cuz no way in hell that fucking ancient 07' in our group, that is always in need of fuel, will get replaced for yet another year....

But all you read about in sledding forums is how they corner on rails. Derby weekend was a complete fucking shitshow with dipshits riding too fast and on the wrong side of the trail. My brother had someone run over a ski, my nephew was forced off the trail by dipshits on his side and an asswipe nearly slid into me coming around a corner too fast and on the wrong side. Would have hit me head on if I was not able to come to a complete stop.

Is there 100' of wire in a sled to begin with? Maybe that old style gauge requires 32 conductors to power it up.

I think we both ride in the North Woods region. I actually see far more heavyweights on their ultra-lightweight two smokers. I cannot remember the last time I even came across a thunderwinder when riding and we saw an absolute shit ton of sleds during derby week this year. By far Poos sales have been really strong the past couple of seasons and starting to see almost as many poos as doos on the trails. When we come across cats the majority are ancient vintage 90's shit and of course we still have an 07' in our group as the 06' was finally retired after last season.

The miss for me with the thunderwinder was not just the difference in weight but where it sits in the chassis and how the sled feels and handles. The G4 wide was designed around and for the engine. Not so much for the procross and the yamaha engine and it's evident riding both of them back to back. What I would be most interested in from cat is a catalyst chassis purpose built for the yamaha engine. That's an opportunity but not sure it will ever happen.

Not that anyone reallly gives a shit but the thunderwinder is not lighter than the mach z. Here is the results of the weigh in done for the 2022 shootout krom referenced. From the SnowGoer article: However, the Mach Z weighed about 30 pounds less than the EPS-equipped Thundercat when the sleds were scaled in – the TCat weighed 645 pounds when carrying 4 gallons of fuel while the Mach Z was at 620 with 5 gallons. Knowing that gas weighs about 6.1 pounds per gallon, the difference is about 31 pounds. So, if you delete 4 gallons of gas from the thunderwinder you get 620.4lbs. Now delete the engine oil, approx. 8lbs and it comes in at 612lbs.

I would agree that 20-40lbs is not that noticeable. 70lbs or more? Definitely noticeable. It also has a lot to do with where that weight is. I went from a 530lb 1200 to a 540lb 900 but the sled handles and feels lighter because of how much more balanced the package is and where the weight is centered.

Dry weights are the only way to compare apples to apples. The thunderwinder is what it is. The heaviest four stroke trail sled on the market and at least 70lbs more than my 20' XRS. It was noticeable when I test rode a winder at my dealer. But again I really don't care because it is what it is and everyone wants what they want when spending a shit ton of cash these days. One primary point in my post being that if cat's sleds were all lighter than the competition you bet your ass they would be publishing them in the spec sheets and that marketing dude from Atlanta, GA would be putting up billboards everywhere declaring that advantage. They don't because there isn't one. If the catalyst changes that and ends up being significantly lighter than the competition I am sure it will be talked about everywhere. So far saying it is 10% lighter than a procross is not really saying much unless you are riding a procross.

Actually every once in awhile you come across internet gold. This place has more of it than any other site. That photo of cats new gauge checks all the boxes....

This race must not have any turns or rough terrain that would cause a chassis to fold up.....

Who the fuck cares what sleds weighed back in 2012? A fucking thunderwinder clocked in at 603lbs dry in 2022. How about what sleds actually weigh today? 2022 ZR6000 w/ E-start and ATAC - 512lbs 2022 ZR6000 R-XC No E-start - 487lbs 2024 Doo XRS 600R with Competition Package and SHOT - 470lbs - How do I know? Because at least Doo posts the fucking weights on the spec sheet.

I have wondered what the fuck is up with that little seat? Maybe cat guys are getting smaller in their old age. Maybe that is where they were able to shave so much of the weight off the thing compared to the old chassis.

If I had your phone I wouldn't take it sledding either....

He is actually. He chats with himself on arctic insider.....

Snowmobilers will kill the sport long before the ice melts. I think if we manufactured a few billion more batteries the ice should start to recover.

Yep, just more evidence of shitty maintenance. I haven't pulled over a Doo since well, never pulled over a Doo. Even my fucking 2005 had e-start and it started every fucking time for like more than a decade.