jdsky

I called them. Just like anything read the fuckin' fine print. Also, you forgot the part where you said it was a $2000 rebate which is completely different from UP to $2K off. I said there were no fucking factory rebates and you just kept on a arguing. Just like when you stated Cat was not charging any fucking logistics fee. It was right there on their website.

There's others but its not worth the fight. I still have calls in to dealers out East trying to find one offering a $2K rebate.

My dealer, that sells all brands but cat now, had a demo sled that anyone could take out. Not a guided ride but head out on the trail and take it for a rip. This was not the very first season but the following. Anyone could stop by and take it out. The problem over the past couple of years has been lack of floor stock but the best way to ride the poo chassis is to call around and find a dealer that will let you take one out. If that does not work there is always the rental route. Rider from TX in our group rents every season and this year he rented a VR1 650 after renting various doo's over the years. The 650 is an incredibly strong motor and top end is surprising. It should be an interesting side by side run with the catalyst.

At least you got one thing right in this post. You did ride it and it was the worst fucking thing cat could have ever have done to promote their new chassis.

This is exactly what poo did with the launch of their chassis. They quickly got it in the hands of riders from other brands that could sing the praises of poo engineering. It worked, because they have sold a shit load of sleds not only to diehard poo fans but also the cat and doo riders.

Spot on. The catalyst could have been anything and spring orders would have sold out in minutes. Finally after so many years it just needed to be new and different so that all of the fans still riding old shit would finally get excited to buy a new sled. Extremely limited supply just added to the illusion that this must be a game changer for sure Ole. What will be far more important to their business is what happens with the spring releases in 5 or 10 years from now.

Entirely just to piss off cat fanciers on internet forums. Next season it will be available on a thunderchicken and then it will not only be the best thing to have on a sled but we can find out that cat really invented it and everyone else copied them.

What's funny is everyone thinking people are mad. I'm not mad, just trying to get this place back on track with the old HCS days. For fuck sake, everyone has gone so soft. Anytime the manufacturer's announce there is no better opportunity to pick their shit apart and definitely nothing compares to a brand new decade late to the party chassis that is a GAMECHANGER to do that.

All you had to say was you are right jd....

First, you are the passionate one about this topic trying to prove that cat somehow only cares about building performance sleds and gives two shits about selling them in relevant numbers, generating revenues and profits which goes hand in hand with taking market share from your competition. The feeble attempt to somehow tie in a highly profitable and successful exotic car company and attempt to try to equate what cat does is fucking ridiculous and just plain dumb. Now you bring McLaren into the mix. What do they have to do with cats success or extreme lack of it? Have you driven a 720s? I have. Have you driven a GT? I have. Fucking amazing cars, insanely fast and THE BEST at nearly everything exotic cars do. In no universe does a 720s have anything to do with any product ever developed or sold by cat. Cats products have been so far from being the best over the past two decades the company was financially fucked.

I really don't have the coin to buy exotics but my brother does. He started his journey buying a couple of Lambo's then a couple of McLarens and now he has his first Ferrari. Bought it used but he is wondering if he would ever want a new one as he has done really well buying very low mileage barely driven cars that have taken whatever depreciation hit they do in the first couple of years. Then when he gets tired of the car sells it and moves on to another low mileage used, usually still under full manufacturer warranty or in the case of the McLarens just purchase an annual service contract that covers everything that could go wrong with the car for the low low price of $5K per year. The used Ferrari he recently bought comes with all maintenance included for the next 3 years so running costs are not that bad all things considered. Once the initial depreciation hit happens his cars have all held their values fairly well - up until recently anyway. Ferrari values historically do well compared to the others.

Did you even ask your dealer if the $700 logistics surcharge includes destination and setup fees?

You guys love to quote old shit from decades ago. Any form of government help was prior to the formation of BRP the PUBLIC company. You haven't read a single financial report in your life. As for the charge. Here is the disclaimer from cats website. Plus destination charge and setup. Logistics surcharge of $700. You have part of it right. BRP charges a destination (shipping) and setup charge but they do not have any Logistics surcharge. *Plus destination charge and set-up. Logistics surcharge of $700 will apply.

Nothing has changed. If you are not already a preferred customer or have an established relationship with a dealer you start by buying them used and eventually get the opportunity to buy one new. They have done really well modelling their business after arctic cat.

Short answer? They care about all three. Revenue, profits and market share. Again, stinki picks a ridiculous comparison. Ferrari and Cat could not be any further apart. Cat is not a leader in their specific market and has sucked so bad for so many years at generating BOTH revenue and profits they worked themselves nearly completely out of business if it had not been for Textron bailing them out financially. Last time I checked Ferrari is doing just fine competing against, name any other exotic sports car manufacturer, and actually generates revenues, profits and is considered a leader in their product category.... But yes, if you want to compare cat to Ferrari based on the fact that cat sells about as many snowmobiles each year as Ferrari sells sports cars I guess that would be about the only business comparison one could attempt to make.

Thank's krommer. Checked the links. One has full boat retail prices. Another has zero pricing listed at all. As I responded earlier BRP does not have any factory rebates on 23's but I will give them a call to see if they are offering $2K off. Seems there was a spell check on my earlier post. It was Coxsackie, New York.....

Do everyone on here a favor and post a link to any dealer offering $2K off leftover 23's. The last cat holdout in our group took one look at the prices including the $700 additional fuck you in the ass charge and is now looking for something else. Would happily pay shipping for one of these stacked up fire sale doo sleds you keep talking about. I find nothing at all for doo listed in all of NE USA on CL. When our dealers in the midwest get overloaded with leftover sleds they put them on the list with discounts. There is next to nothing out there. I did find a dealer in Cocksucker, NY with a grand total of 4 23's listed and they are not on fire sale.

And it's still what they are until they actually ship something relevant which they have not. Bring on the marching band, cat sold out of spring orders! This is huge news for cat. Two dealers I work with sold out of spring orders last season. They will be selling out again. It's called limited supply. How many catalysts did each dealer even get to take orders for? Anyone actually know? My dealer tried to order 150 more sleds than he could get his hands on last year. That might be the total number of catalysts getting built for 24'.

The best part is I'm not mad but am a little ticked off that all I can afford is a shitty blast. Hopefully once I am finally successful enough and able to afford one I can join the rally cry of all the other performance oriented niche market cat buyers.

The blast is more evidence of releasing shit that buyers in the market could care less about. It is also the most cheap looking piece of garbage to ever hit dealer showrooms in a really long time. Evidence that cats innovation is still nonexistent and yes that first to market 850 that you say "everyone knows about" is still not in the market for 2024 and who knows when it will finally be available for fans to beta test like that shitty 800 was when it was throwing flames everywhere they went.

More bullshit. BRP is not funded by the Canadian government anymore than Polaris would be. They are a publicly traded company and as such all of their financials are public record. Their sleds seem to be less this year because their prices have not gone up as much as the competition. Obviously because cat only markets high performance sleds to a very small niche they must have finally figured out that these guys will pay big bucks for super high performance 600's. They also figured out these buyers are also willing to pay an additional $700 fuck me up the ass charge.

Diversity of product is the worst excuse ever and Cat has not been failing because the market does not like "performance oriented" sleds. It's because their shitty products were inferior from top to bottom and in so many ways that few would spend their hard earned money on them shortly after the year 2000. Fucking business 101 but cat diehards have found a million creative ways to make it sound like cat is still the leader or could have been a leader if just - enter excuse here. If as you say they had all of this awesome and innovative product just waiting to go and all they needed was a few bucks there is zero fucking evidence of that based on what has happened over the past six years. Textron knows jack shit about the sled market but they do know enough about business to turn a profit and if spending some of it was going to immediately launch the cat brand into being a market leader they would have written that check a few micro-seconds after taking over. BRP is not the overall leader in sales because they have money or the backing of canada or diversity of product lines. It's because more people write checks for their sleds and proof of that is readily available in every public shareholders report. Poo is profitable in the sled market for the same exact fucking reasons. More people write checks for their sleds than arctic cat and yamaha combined and because they are also smart enough to understand what the market wants and then proceed to design and market products to meet that demand. Maybe you have no basic understanding of business and how delivering products that people want to buy provides the money to continue to build even more products that customers want to buy. Maybe cat had the catalyst in 2010 and was just too fucking stupid or poor to bring it to market. Maybe they actually had an 850 long before Doo and Poo had one, they were just too fucked up as a company internally to bring it to market. Because you know, they were so focused on performance that they instead delivered the shittiest performing 800 in recent history of modern 800 engines. At this point whatever fantastic sledding innovation it is that they are sitting on would not only be an indicator that there are plenty of idiots still steering the ship but also that non of that unleashed innovation means jack shit to anyone ordering a sled for 2024.

The first ATV I bought new was a 97' poolaris. The cat ATV lineup was a joke in comparison and poo was able to dominate in sales. Poo applied the same savvy to SxS's and again, dominated brands like Honda and Yamaha that were fucking huge in comparison and had nearly unlimited resources compared to poo at that time. When I bought a pair of new SxS's in 2013 I looked at everything as I always do when spending that kind of cash. For what we needed poo was the only brand that offered it all specific to engine and features. We still have the fucking things and they have been reliable and contrary to popular internet forum beliefs neither have started on fire.

So, they have the bestest sleds out there for decades but can't lead the market because they are just too small or too stupid to make money in other product categories? Absofuckinglutely ridiculous. They have zero excuse of being small when owned by a company that has all the necessary resources and should be able to overcome outside forces like supply chain and manufacturing if that is all that is needed to propel them to the top. Textron has owned them for 6 years now. The only excuse at this point is that cat was in such a fucking bad place product wise that it is now going to take decades to overcome all of the issues and that's only if textron has the patience for it. The fans excuses are just endless and completely detached from the reality of the situation. Cat, like many companies that at one time had innovation engrained in their DNA, thought their fans would never leave no matter how inferior and irrelevant their products became. There is zero reason the catalyst, or something extremely close to it, did not exist at a minimum 5 or more years ago and it really should have existed at a time when a suzuki engine was powering it. Cat just did not want to bend and pay a royalty like poo did and poo is so much further ahead now that they did. That had zero to do with how many ATVs and SxS's poo sells every year.

Completely agree that the websites are not easy to navigate or find specific info on. Regarding sales every manufacturer is having constraint issues and problems producing in the volumes they would like to in order to meet demand. Only the leadership at textron/cat actually knows if they are having more difficulty with their supply chain than their competition. The bottom line is there can be only two reasons for not selling more than their competitors. They really just suck at supply chain and manufacturing or there is overall less demand for their products vs the competition. There is no other reason for not gaining share if the product is truly superior in every meaningful way to consumers. There is also zero reason to defend a brand when it is sucking in the market unless they pay you to do so. Otherwise it's just being a blind fan which I am not insinuating that you in particular are one of those. I spend my money on shit I think is the best option for me. I have owned my share of cats in the past and was a fan. When they stopped making what I considered to be the best product, or even a decent product compared to the competition I had zero fucking reasons to keep spending my money on their shit. If at some point if they can prove they are producing a better product I will consider it but I'm not buying just so I can dust off my 1990's riding gear....