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jdsky

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Posts posted by jdsky

    17 minutes ago, oldslowsledder said:

    Interesting shootout, take what you want from it.

     

    SNOWTRAX 2023 - Episode 5 - Supertrax Online

    What was missing from that comparison?  Oh yeah, a catalyst 600. 

    Would've blown both of those sleds away with it's superior performance, handling, ergonomics, technology, fit and finish.

    About the single best video to show just how fucking far behind cat/textron is in the game.  Fast forward another decade and they will either be still trying to catch up or completely gone from the sport.

    1 hour ago, stinkipinki said:

    SkiDoo's reliability is average at best. Had it not been for Cat's fuckup the first few years with their CTEC 800, you could possibly claim Doo is the worst. The ETEC's had trouble for years and the PowerTeks are junkyard sleds.

    800's have been notoriously unreliable but that has not stopped anyone from buying them over the past two decades.  Yes, cat's 800 was a fuckup of massive proportions and a poor attempt the only difference is it happened within the last few years.  Both Doo and Poo have figured it out years ago and their 800/850's have been reliable. 

    My 05' 600 SDI was bullet proof.  All of my 600 ETEC's were bullet proof.  All of my 4 strokes have been bullet proof.  Hell my 600 zukes were all bullet proof except for a stator or two but those were zukes not ctecs. 

    1 hour ago, stinkipinki said:

    The first REV's were junk. They were tippy, nosed dived in corners and didn't fit large riders well. The 800's were also an issue for many years, complete junk sleds. It wasn't until the 600SDI engine and chassis tweaks they handled and drove worth a fuck. The Firecats handled just as good if not better, were much faster and much more reliable, out of the 03, which was fast as fuck, but like the first year REV, also had its share of issues.

    They were so tippy and unreliable they transformed the sport and sold in the hundreds of thousands over the past 20 years.  All while cat has shrunk into nearly nonexistence and definitely into insignificance to the sport. 

    1 hour ago, stinkipinki said:

    The Firecats are great trail sleds. My 06 F7 EFI handled nearly as well as an 04 REV 800 H.O. my cousin had, but not quite as good as the Crossfire's.

    The F7 is so good people are still buying them today and Doo and Poo have been relegated to 12% market share combined.

    1 hour ago, stinkipinki said:

    You can keep repeating this over and over, it has no truth to it. Your comment about suspensions is comical too, as Cat came out and had wish-bone suspensions on sleds years before Ski-Doo did in the late 90's. A 2010/2011 Twin Spar 800 HO 160HP Zuke will still handle nearly as good as anything Ski-Doo makes for trail riding. I liked my buddies 2011 Renegade but it lost to my Nytro XTX consistently in drag races and didnt handle trails as well as my Twin Spar.

    Your high on Doo, I get it. I like BRP too, I own a Defender, but their is nothing special, or above average on thier sleds besides the r-motion skid.

    Someone seems to be repeating over and over.  

    • Like 3

    26 minutes ago, stinkipinki said:

    Cat never copied Doo, the Pyramid design wasn't something they took or copied from anyone, it happened to be similar...in the same way both machines have two skis and a track...Doo going to patent that next?

    You're fucking high if you think the original rider forward Rev was not copied by cat and is still not the basis for the catalyst.  If the Rev was never brought to market there would be no such thing existing today.  Cat fucking bashed the Rev for years until they understood that most riders can figure out for themselves what is better.  The rest are just fucking brand blind.  

    You are right that now all three brands are similar with tracks, ski's and triangular shaped chassis'......  Fuck it's amazing how blind some people still are. 

    22 minutes ago, Anler said:

    Skidoo tech is the etec which is still the industry benchmark. And skidoo invented the centralized mass chassis. Everyone else has been trying to put their spin on it since. In fact cat lost a law suit against brp because they got too close.  And everyone who isn't a hack can see this is their next "version" of a modern skidoo. 

     

    IMG_20221114_190554347.jpg

    Cat waited for the patent to expire so they could do a better job at copying and assembling the triangles.  Poo just bit the bullet years ago and paid up which was a good strategy that has led to market share gains.  It's why all this talk of the catalyst being somehow an all new idea or ground breaking and the competition is now old and dated is just nonsense. 

    The real world handling differences will be minor at best and rMotion is still the best rear suspension in the game.  I hope cat can now catch up in the engine department.  Just based on how long the last 800 took to develop, bring to market and refine who knows how long that is going to take.  Obviously long enough that the new chassis is only available with the 600. 

    That's the problem.  For the majority of enthusiasts in the sport this sled is still a waiting game.  Wait to see if all of the hype about engine placement or rolling resistance equates to anything meaningful.  If the balance and handling is actually better or just playing catch up.  If cat can actually design and build an engine that will compete with what has already been out in the market for a long time already. 

    Going to be at least a year before we know anything real world about the chassis and only god knows when that big bore engine will be available and more importantly - PROVEN.

    33 minutes ago, stinkipinki said:

    Unless its a superior handling and driving machine. Its already creating huge buzz and rumor is lots of folks are pre-ordering, and I can see why. Polaris is old news now and other then the boost, havent made a new or exciting sled since 15 (Matryx not a new chassis, niether is the G5), and the G4 is 7 years old.

    100% agree it's creating a huge buzz - with cat diehards that have been forced to ride ancient sleds for a decade or more because they won't consider anything else.  We have one of them left in the group and you bet he's excited that he can finally upgrade his 2007.

    This chassis is a catch up, it's not a gamechanger and to top it off it only appeals to a small segment within a small segment of riders that want a 600 cat.

    As for how it compares to Poo this is what I am waiting for.  That diehard Poo rider that has a few thousand clicks under his belt on a 650 hop on a catalyst and provide an impression.  Let's hear one of those guys blowing about how much of a gamechanger this sled is..... 

    • Haha 1

    As fucking late to the game as they are they need to be the price leader.  The last attempt was just bullshit.  They stripped the warranties and then gave the impression the prices were good.  This was spring of 19' when I ordered.  Found a cat dealer (both of mine had dropped the brand years ago) and priced out the thunderchicken.  It was $13.5K with no warranty and after test riding the yamacat decided to spend another $750 to order the Doo.  

    Textron needs to blow these 600's out the door cheap and with warranties if they want to gain any traction.  If these are the same price as the competition's 600's nobody other than dumstad diehards will give a shit about them.

    • Like 4
    • Haha 1

    The best thing cat could do for the sledding industry as a whole is reset the pricing model.  Poo used to be competitive on pricing but with the introduction of the new chassis and other updates just followed Doo with their price points.

    If Cat/Textron could find a way to do this it would benefit everyone and would help their sales by a significant margin.  They attempted to do this a few seasons back by dropping warranties but it failed due to not having a modern chassis and competitive engine offerings (other than the 998).  It was just the same old shit with somewhat lower prices.

     

    • Like 1

    6 minutes ago, Jimmy Snacks said:

    So any idea on the price of the Catalyst 600? 🤷🏻🤔

    Here's my guess.  Base starting price of an Indy VR1 650 is $15,299.  That price will likely go up a couple of bucks for 2024.  Starting price of a catalyst 600?  At least $14,999.

    For Cat to get any excitement and draw riders that have already been running competitors modern sleds for at least a decade?  Price it at $13K bare bones and then add on for e-start a windshield and optional tracks. that would take it to no more than $15K.

    • Like 1

    With this sled Cat should do what others have done in the past with a brand new platform.  Either ship every dealer a demo sled for prospective buyers to ride or if they cannot produce enough of them then just ship the sleds they do have from dealer to dealer.  The logistics in that are not difficult at all and it gives buyers a much better chance to find a dealer within an hour or two at most to get a decent demo ride in.  

    I have gone to a couple of the large organized events in the past and while it's better than nothing you really cannot get much of a feel riding something on a closed course for a couple of minutes and after standing in line.

    • Like 2

    The catalyst gets them on par in most areas chassis wise but I highly doubt it's going to get ahead of rMotion.  It's only a 600 and that's just fucking lame no matter how many "800" parts it contains.  They are so far behind in the engine game it's fucking pathetic and they still will be when everyone is riding in the year 2024.  The gauge package is a joke and the dildo size seat is great if you are into that sort of thing. 

    No, it's not going to sell anywhere near the numbers that dumfuckstad thinks they will.  Cat, or really Textron, still needs to get their heads out of their asses and decide if they want to lead or continue to try to just keep up.

    I am not sure anything coming out these days is great for sledders regardless of the letters on the hood.  Sure, much of it is high tech gadgetry but it all comes and a ridiculous price for what you get and then there are the shitty and short riding seasons that makes me wonder why anyone will shell out $20-30 grand for a new sled, accessories and gear.

    • Like 2
    • Haha 1

    I always had 600's prior to moving to 4 stroke's - mainly because 800's had such shitty track records for reliability in those days.

    My brother always had 800's so I am comparing Etec to Etec.  With both of us riding the same trails at the same speeds we both put nearly the same amount of gas in the tank when stopping to fill up.  He would maybe put in 1/2 to 3/4 gallon more than me on average.  

    Now that 800's/850's have become just as reliable as 600's there is zero reason to buy a 600 in my opinion and especially not for fuel economy purposes.  The worst thing about my 600's was always feeling like I was having to push them to the ragged edge vs anyone that was riding an 800.  If I were to go back to two stroke I would not be buying a 600. 

    Traction is the limiting factor in any discussion about racing and more HP just means more traction issues specifically when riding where normal people ride bone stock sleds.

    As for the yamacat being reliable.  I've known plenty of people that have had plenty of issues with their tuned yamacats.  The engine is great the drive train, not so much.  More HP = more issues with everything getting it to the snow.

    The Boost looks pretty fucking quick in that drag racing video which is what people do.  They hardly race them for miles on end.... 

    Does anybody even know how much a catalyst 600 is going to cost? The best thing cat could do for themselves (and their faithful) is price that fucking late to the party sled by a minimum of 20% less than the competition.  

    If it's the same price as the 650 poo or 600 doo it's going to take exactly zero market share away from them.  

    There is a lot of talk about this "new" 600, with an 800 crank, but the rental vr1 650 in our group was surprisingly fast across kevlar lake.  Of course the only problem it suffered was typical poo quality. 

    • Like 2

    1 minute ago, SnowRider said:

     Want a job?  In a Dem economy you can find one

     

    It's because every lazy leftist fuck is sitting on their ass waiting for more free handouts.  Jeebus you are fucking stupid.   

    • Like 1