Algonquin Rider

17 hours ago, Sksman said:

For 3 months.

Why are we subsidizing an empty apartment?

If she would have Air B&B the apartment for the Vacation months problem solved. 

No mold problem and cash in her pocket for the next Vacation. 

5 hours ago, smokin george said:

The trail is a public place once an agreement has been made. Landowner or not and it's pay up time. 

Finally the right answer.

I wonder how many Landowners know this?

15 minutes ago, 02sled said:

Pretty much the same concept as a loud noisy party on your own property that keeps the neighbours awake at 2 in the morning.

Agree but that is what the Municipality By-Law is for.  

My point is getting a ticket for anything on your property while donating your property to be used by the Public will close OFSC Trails. 

It has nothing to do with an exhaust. Its the principle of the Law on a Trail.

3 hours ago, odot1 said:

While it's always hard for me to comment on another officer's interactions as I was not there and do not have all sides of the story, I can comment on generalities.  As much as we would like thinks to be perfectly black and white in the world...there are too many shades of grey.  Trails on private property being used by the owner is one.  

So here we have the specific section dealing with modifications...  In every section of the Motorized Snow Vehicle Act (MSVA) you will see the rule and then exceptions if any)

Equipment requirements

Muffler in working order

18 (1) No person shall drive a motorized snow vehicle unless it is equipped with a muffler in good working order and in constant operation and no person shall drive a motorized snow vehicle which has a muffler cut-out, straight exhaust, gutted muffler, hollywood muffler, by-pass or similar device upon the motorized snow vehicle.  R.S.O. 1990, c. M.44, s. 18 (1).

Removing or modifying any component

(2) No person shall drive or permit to be driven any motorized snow vehicle upon which any component or device, which was required under the provisions of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada) at the time that the motorized snow vehicle was manufactured or imported into Canada, has been removed, modified or rendered inoperative.  R.S.O. 1990, c. M.44, s. 18 (2).

Exception in racing area

(3) Subsections (1) and (2) do not apply to a motorized snow vehicle while it is driven in a racing area sanctioned as such by the council of the municipality within which the racing area is located.  R.S.O. 1990, c. M.44, s. 18 (3); 2002, c. 17, Sched. F, Table.

Next I will post the insurance section....

Insurance

12 (1) No person shall drive a motorized snow vehicle unless the vehicle is insured under a motor vehicle liability policy in accordance with the Insurance Act, and the owner of a motorized snow vehicle shall not permit any person to drive the vehicle unless the vehicle is so insured.  2000, c. 30, s. 6 (1).

Production of evidence of insurance

(2) The driver of a motorized snow vehicle who drives or permits the driving of the motorized snow vehicle shall, upon the request of a police officer or conservation officer, produce evidence that the vehicle is insured under a motor vehicle liability policy in accordance with the Insurance Act.  2000, c. 30, s. 6 (1).

Offence for failure to have insurance

(3) Every person who contravenes subsection (1) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $200 and not more than $1,000.  2000, c. 30, s. 6 (1).

Offence for producing false evidence

(4) Every driver of a motorized snow vehicle who produces false evidence when required to produce evidence under subsection (2) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $200 and not more than $1,000.  R.S.O. 1990, c. M.44, s. 12 (4).

Exemption

(5) This section does not apply to a person driving a motorized snow vehicle on land occupied by the owner of the vehicle.  R.S.O. 1990, c. M.44, s. 12 (5).

Notice in this section it specifically states that owners of the property are exempt.  In the modification section it doesn't.  So based on the MSVA the officer had the authority to issue the ticket.  I do get your concern however and it is legit.  It's always a tough balance for us out there.  We try to weigh all factors, first and foremost is safety...the in cascades down from there.  Often times it comes down to the totality of the interaction. I.E. is this the only issue for this stop, or are there other infractions? Yes, attitude can factor in. Volume of traffic, weather etc etc.. AND... when it comes to the modified exhaust we always look back to the issue in Quebec when they lost huge sections of trails due to noise.  I've found most paying trail riders despise the cans.  Personally I don't understand why you want the loud buzzing in your ears while riding all day, but to each his own.  I do occasionally laugh when some people cite weight savings and performance gains..  Perhaps on a track..maybe a few pounds.  As for the performance...often you will need to re map the fuel delivery etc...rarely done except by the serious guys.  Even then...  I've yet to see an non-modified sled incapable of reaching 50knm/h  

 

Sean I get it.

I hate exhaust cans more than anyone.

The issue is doing what you want on your property. Getting a ticket for anything on your property to me is outrageous.

JMO

Hey Sean, check this one out.

A friend if mine got a ticket today for an aftermarket exhaust. No biggy willing to pay as its 2 hours to fight it in court.

The best part is he was on his property going to the Lake to his ice hut. Cop said he was on a Prescribed OFSC Trail.

So you can have no Val Tag, Helmet, no insurance or no Permit on your property but you can't have a modified exhaust? 

Don't get me wrong I'm all for enforcement and a modified exhaust which is part of a turbo kit is not a noise issue. 

Him and his Family have been Trail Landowners for almost 50 years and been involved and helped establish the local Club so no issue there with loss of permission. If they did shut down the Trail on their property it would impact a very important link and Community.

What if they weren't? A Landowner with nothing to do with the Club and gets charged on his property. A good way to get Trails closed.

Discussion?

1 hour ago, mrholmquist said:

Looking to go for a ride , map says most trails closed . Some yellow around Bancroft is it worth it to trailer there ? Anybody know the trail conditions ?

 

Algonquin Snowmobile Club and Highland Rovers are open.

Dwight / Kearney Area.

Great conditions too. 

14 hours ago, 02sled said:

got a link to an example...

I do. Not going there tho. 

5 hours ago, 1trailmaker said:

Admin and Mods at OC post and give away personal information 

OC also has a "Special" Forum page for only certain people. Just like a "He-Mans Woman Haters Club" that the Little Rascals had. 

They talk and make fun of the people who are not in the "Club". 

Been there, done that.

6 hours ago, DAVE said:

Just got an email from backcountry rentals.....they have given me a full refund for my sled rental for sled....including the day I used it for....and free day if I want to rent again....that is pretty dam good of them and more then I expected....would definitely rent with them again....great people to deal with.

Great news Dave. You are one of the lucky ones.

BTW, why wouldn't you have rode the Green Trails East of Dwight?

WOW, what a hijack on this post. 

Just now, Stoney said:

So, the most important thing here is that bridge is good to go and the trail past the ASC shelter will open soon! 

That is awesome and big thanks to those that helped!

Yes its open limited now. We just swapped the packer pan for the drag on the groomer. Tomorrow with a pass with the drag it will be open green for the weekend. Will be a great riding weekend.

6 hours ago, Algonquin Rider said:

Yes, actually 2 sleds riding separate. Dave, be sure all the numbers match and also have a valid VAL Tag since you will get the ticket and the sled is not covered by insurance.

I wish I got to you before you booked.

 

 

So this is what we saw today. 

I couldn't take pictures of the first sled due to battery on phone dead. Warmed up phone and this is the second sled.

Temp permit does not match the VIN or VAL tag numbers.

Looks like they are just photo copying the temp permit. 

Sure wish I has a picture of the first one. I'm sure it was the same permit photo copied.

Anyway, both VAL tags were DEC 17 and expired. Told the riders they could be in for a ticket if OPP stop them. Also the sleds have no insurance coverage with a non valid VAL tag.

To top it off they were riding on a closed trail because we needed to repair 2 bridges so they could go limited. Back Country sent them to Dorset on a closed trail.

A huge thanks for the helpers we had to get it done. Only tool 3 hours.

See the pictures attached. These were taken from the same sled from a company who profits from our trails and contributes nothing to the sledding community.

We will be in contact with the OPP and pay them a visit.

These people at Back Country are scum. Please pass the word.

Just now, DAVE said:

Renters from backcountry?

Yes, actually 2 sleds riding separate. Dave, be sure all the numbers match and also have a valid VAL Tag since you will get the ticket and the sled is not covered by insurance.

I wish I got to you before you booked.

Wait till you see my next post. Renters sent on closed trails today while we were doing bridge work, temp permit photo copied not matching sled,  Dec 2017 Expired Val Tag. Will post pictures later.

2 minutes ago, DAVE said:

Were riding during the week....buddy just texted me and says he wants to go around the park. 

Sweet,

Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday are the best.

It gives the clubs time to fix the trails after the weekend warriors. 

If you need a RAP Tour map let me know. I can mail one out.

14 minutes ago, DAVE said:

I didnt book it with mycard....im not stupid.

I tentatively booked it for the dates.... 649 for 3 days...not bad imo.

Im not new to sledding by any means...they do have 14 day cancellation apparently....you gotta make hay while the sunshines.

 

Great,

Please let us know how it goes.

PM me and I will let you know how the trails are when you go. 

1 hour ago, DAVE said:

Backcountry called back finally....that was close...almost had to ride a cat.

All booked on a 900 ace.

Dave, good luck with that.

They are a shady company and have ripped off the snowmobile club not paying for advertising and not paying for us to retrieve damaged sled from the trail. 

Just last week some people staying at a local resort from Singapore booked a sled and clothing for December 24th. The trails are never open here at that time. They could not ride and tried to cancel but no refund. They could get a credit for later. They are only here for a week. Just under $500 for one 2up sled from 9-5.

Our club does not support them and will not allow them to be one of our business supporters based on the complaints we have gotten from their customers. They also do not provide proper equipment (unless you rent it) to riders based on the weather conditions. We have seen people obviously new to sledding wearing running shoes and jeans when its -20C. These people thing its an amusement park. Drive a snowmobile in the bush. They don't give proper maps just a 8 1/2" X 11" hand drawn map sending people to Dorset and tell them that can take Lake of Bays back. Very irresponsible.

The only thing I would do is walk in and rent a sled if its a good day and the trails are open. Last year they were renting to people before the trails were open and there were still some gates closed. No booking online.

I feel bad that a business would run this way. Someone will get very hurt or die out there.

5 hours ago, 02sled said:

No...

.

15 hours ago, 1trailmaker said:

odot1 this might be out of your realm and off topic but when Pot becomes legal in July next year will that also mean hash and pot oils? 

Just asking if you would be arrested for hash still?  thanks

Also to add to that, do you think it will be restricted for Zero tolerance for driving while under 21 like alcohol is?

On 10/11/2017 at 11:30 AM, odot1 said:

Soooo...  This turned out to be incredibly complicated.  I finally dug up a number for OFSC (almost impossible).  I spoke to their government programs/enforcement guru.  The first most bold point he made was the OFSC has nothing to do with grooming or any sort of trail management/issue.  He further made it clear the OFSC is an "umbrella corporation" spate from the clubs.  As I dug deeper here is what I've found...brace yourselves... Some clubs still have forms of the land user permit (LUP) but this depends greatly on the individual clubs AND the MNR district in which they reside.  So for example, OFSC District 2.  The L and A Ridge Runners may have an LUP in place but the Bancroft area club may not.  What seems to be happening is that the MNR is distancing itself from any form of restricted/regulated access on Crown land.  This has an effect of reducing enforcement opportunities when it comes to keeping ATVs off trails within crown land areas.  I know that really doesn't completely answer the question on any sort of larger scale area...but it's the best I've got for now.  There is a stakeholder meeting soon..  MTO/OPP etc to discuss bringing the MSVA and the ORVA act more in line with each other and perhaps something will come from that.  Sorry guys!!!

Thanks for the info Sean. 

Hey Sean, When you Guy's (SAVE) are on an open OFSC Trail in the Winter that is on Crown Land and an ATV with either tracks or tires is on the trail, what would happen to the ATV Driver? 

2 minutes ago, odot1 said:

Yup.  Under 12 requires parental supervision. Scary, eh??

So who is responsible for the liability on Crown Land Trails and ATV Trails on Private Land? Would the Private Land Owners know this risk? A Sled operator on an OFSC Trail is covered with insurance.  What about a 10yo driving a SXS with passengers on Crown Land and have an accident. Who is liable? The insured SXS / Parents? Don't the ATV Clubs have to have insurance on Crown Land Trails like the OFAC Trails?

14 minutes ago, odot1 said:

AC is correct G2 or better.  However unlike sleds no licence requirements on the trail..

So a 12yo can drive a SXS with 4 other kids on a trail even if its Crown or Private land trail?

Hey Sean. A multi part question I have never seen talked about here. When a sled has a rider with a G1 they can drive a sled on and across a road. Is it the same for an ATV? What about a SXS or an ATV with a passenger? If so it seems odd that a G1 Driver can drive one of the 4-5 passenger SXS's on a road without a "G" passenger. 

Just saw a SXS go by with 4 kids and was kinda shocked. Does the G1 operator not need a full G passenger to drive on a road like in a car? Seeing 4 kids in a SXS heading into the bush in shorts and t-shirts with no helmets struck a nerve with me. Awaiting for the pager to go off for a Rescue, as a first responder.

Just paid $11 on my Propane bill of $208.65 for "Carbon Tax".

Also got a $1.70 credit for the 8% rebate on my Hydro Bill.

Thank Gawd I got a raise of $.42 per month on my Pension on January 1st. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvcmunJl2dg