Is there anyone left at AC to fire, or will they be spared, despite TSV being one of the losers? 

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/textron-cut-1500-jobs-program-cancellations-weak-demand-hit-results-2024-04-25/

13 hours ago, krom said:

Nah, the riders will get trails closed before, ending the sport before all the manufactures give up.
Simple supply and demand, as long as people ride, there will be manufactures.

Unless textron sells off AC soon, its not looking good for there to be more than 2. 
If you think textron has done a bad job on the snow side, take a look at what they've done to the dirt side..  BRP doesn't even include AC as a manufacture on their new buyer survey's, but the do ask about Hisun .  CF moto has gotten more press with their new SXS release than textron snow and dirt combined  from 18 to today.  None of those stories even mention AC or Textron as a competitor.  They don't even build any units for the best selling categories.

Will textron even be building any 2025 dirt units????  The dealer update has been postponed a couple times, and they are pushing 23's

I don't know, I know a whole lot of riders that have never bought a new sled and never will.  There can be riders but no 20k buyers, most definitely.  And it seems like the demographic for new buyers go up a year in age with every year that goes by.  Which kind of paints the picture.  Young people can't even buy a house, they aren't buying new sleds.  Not enough to support the oems anyway.  Future of the economy doesn't look bright either, I don't think this is a blip.  Discretionary fun money will be harder and harder as years pass for average people.   

That's not addressing what would happen if the climate fanatics ever set their sights on dirty two stroke snowmobile industry.

8 hours ago, racinfarmer said:

Was kind of hoping you'd be a stop sign holder somewhere along the course.

Would you even qualify for that? Being you dont race, nor farm, yet use both as a signature?

6 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

Would you even qualify for that? Being you dont race, nor farm, yet use both as a signature?

is a ZR6000RR your current sled?   

14 hours ago, Deephaven said:

He isn't smart enough to hold a sign.

Being registered as insane to get a check is not something to brag about.

I was thinking I'd maybe enter the 500 just to roost him at a road crossing somewhere.

37 minutes ago, racinfarmer said:

I was thinking I'd maybe enter the 500 just to roost him at a road crossing somewhere.

You would not make it past this point. Can't race, don't farm. Useless comes to mind.

 

19 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

You would not make it past this point. Can't race, don't farm. Useless comes to mind.

 

You know what is awesome?

Needing a special tool to change the belt on a SxS, but that tool isn't included in the purchase of said machine.

8 minutes ago, racinfarmer said:

You know what is awesome?

Needing a special tool to change the belt on a SxS, but that tool isn't included in the purchase of said machine.

Means nothing to me. Just like the third recal on almost every sled poo made since what? 2013? Can't get a gas tank right. There are other ways to change the belt though. Most teal farmers figure shit out. 

31 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

Means nothing to me. Just like the third recal on almost every sled poo made since what? 2013? Can't get a gas tank right. There are other ways to change the belt though. Most teal farmers figure shit out. 

I guess I can just jam a pry bar in the secondary to open it up, again.

1 hour ago, ZR6000RR said:

Means nothing to me. Just like the third recal on almost every sled poo made since what? 2013? Can't get a gas tank right. There are other ways to change the belt though. Most teal farmers figure shit out. 

Stop being conservative. It’s like the 10th 

Edited September 22, 20241 yr by Not greg b

28 minutes ago, racinfarmer said:

I guess I can just jam a pry bar in the secondary to open it up, again.

I prefer a sledge hammer. It breaks off everything in the way and replace everything 

8 hours ago, racinfarmer said:

I guess I can just jam a pry bar in the secondary to open it up, again.

It could be worse the head on your pride and joy ATV could be held on by some cheap all thread, that likes to break..  Like the AC 600..

23 hours ago, mnstang said:

I don't know, I know a whole lot of riders that have never bought a new sled and never will.  There can be riders but no 20k buyers, most definitely.  And it seems like the demographic for new buyers go up a year in age with every year that goes by.  Which kind of paints the picture.  Young people can't even buy a house, they aren't buying new sleds.  Not enough to support the oems anyway.  Future of the economy doesn't look bright either, I don't think this is a blip.  Discretionary fun money will be harder and harder as years pass for average people.   

That's not addressing what would happen if the climate fanatics ever set their sights on dirty two stroke snowmobile industry.

Most companies make more from the parts side, than new unit sales.  If textron was smart (we know they aren't) they wouldn't be discontinuing so many parts, an upsetting so many owners who won't buy another AC, because they can't get parts for their 3 to 5 year old unit

Only focused on short term p/l.  That alone is going to probably mean I never get to own an 858 Catalyst.  I sure hope someone who cares about the customer base absorbs them and fast.

On 9/21/2024 at 8:31 AM, mnstang said:

I don't know, I know a whole lot of riders that have never bought a new sled and never will.  There can be riders but no 20k buyers, most definitely.  And it seems like the demographic for new buyers go up a year in age with every year that goes by.  Which kind of paints the picture.  Young people can't even buy a house, they aren't buying new sleds.  Not enough to support the oems anyway.  Future of the economy doesn't look bright either, I don't think this is a blip.  Discretionary fun money will be harder and harder as years pass for average people.   

That's not addressing what would happen if the climate fanatics ever set their sights on dirty two stroke snowmobile industry.

Well stated and spot on.

1 hour ago, Deephaven said:

Only focused on short term p/l.  That alone is going to probably mean I never get to own an 858 Catalyst.  I sure hope someone who cares about the customer base absorbs them and fast.

Sooner the quicker.  It'll be an actual motor sports operation I hope.  The Catalyst was the play to attract buyer attention I think.  Like a team athlete late in his game years having a bang out season for high position trade fodder.

It's seemingly a good play.  I'll prolly own one.  But if this doesn't attract a good buyer....well, I don't know.

2 hours ago, krom said:

Most companies make more from the parts side, than new unit sales.  If textron was smart (we know they aren't) they wouldn't be discontinuing so many parts, an upsetting so many owners who won't buy another AC, because they can't get parts for their 3 to 5 year old unit

most dealers make more on parts and repairs than they do on the actual sled.  generally speaking the manufacturers take the lions share of the profits on new unit sales. 

@Not greg b shared this yesterday... it's not the dealer taking a $3k haircut which likely means each unit is highly profitable at their current MSRP $

 

Edited September 22, 20241 yr by Crnr2Crnr

Update on the dealership previously mentioned in this thread.

On 9/20/2024 at 8:08 AM, Zambroski said:

That was my Cat I had to limp miserably home after that.  My doo(s) wouldn't have been capable of any movement that didn't involve dragging and parts pick up.

They sell  complete assembly now so you won’t have to worry about picking up the parts. Just leave them in the woods 

1 hour ago, Not greg b said:

They sell  complete assembly now so you won’t have to worry about picking up the parts. Just leave them in the woods 

Could probably buy a whole other doo and tweak it back into some kinda factory shape for what that might cost.  

That's a beautiful pyramid.  Good thing the Egyptians didn't patent that shit 

1 hour ago, mnstang said:

That's a beautiful pyramid.  Good thing the Egyptians didn't patent that shit 

Cry some more about your shitty brand getting sued ya little bitch. 

14 hours ago, krom said:

Most companies make more from the parts side, than new unit sales.  If textron was smart (we know they aren't) they wouldn't be discontinuing so many parts, an upsetting so many owners who won't buy another AC, because they can't get parts for their 3 to 5 year old unit

The problem is the big degree corporate people that don’t know anything about a business love the 80/20 rule and the project code word sku rat. Basically they chop their dealer network and parts network down to the top 80% of what does the most business. The problem with that is, is they do it to often and widdle the business down to nothing because they have nothing to sell anymore. I went through that with my old work and now I see they are bringing things back. The degree people get pats on the back for having a significant for reducing what they need to build on hand. The sales side and dealers get shit on because they don’t have anything to sell after they do it 5 times in 5 years. 

On 9/20/2024 at 11:15 PM, ZR6000RR said:

Two torx screws and a brain that functions. Fuck! Cant farm, dont race and now cant remove a belt. You are special. 

Assuming you’re talking about the catalyst it’s still a pretty piss poor design. Blow a belt in a race what you could do in 45 seconds or less on a procross realistically takes 2+ minutes and that’s with someone way smarter and more able bodied than you doing it as fast as possible. You shouldn’t have to take a sled apart to “easily” change the belt.

It even makes clutch testing less enjoyable when it’s such a pain in the balls to get the primary off its easier to just kneel down in the snow to change weights/springs than pop the primary and make adjustments with the clutch on the seat.

 

but then again you probably have more knowledge on the subject than I do

8 minutes ago, Palu49 said:

Assuming you’re talking about the catalyst it’s still a pretty piss poor design. Blow a belt in a race what you could do in 45 seconds or less on a procross realistically takes 2+ minutes and that’s with someone way smarter and more able bodied than you doing it as fast as possible. You shouldn’t have to take a sled apart to “easily” change the belt.

It even makes clutch testing less enjoyable when it’s such a pain in the balls to get the primary off its easier to just kneel down in the snow to change weights/springs than pop the primary and make adjustments with the clutch on the seat.

 

but then again you probably have more knowledge on the subject than I do

I wouldn’t want to change a belt trail side on the cattle ass. Btw I need to go by the cheapest Torx tool from harbor freight to remove the belly pan screws 

58 minutes ago, Not greg b said:

I wouldn’t want to change a belt trail side on the cattle ass. Btw I need to go by the cheapest Torx tool from harbor freight to remove the belly pan screws 

China freight has a Bitchin set of T handles for like 8 bucks. They even come textron green

On 9/20/2024 at 10:10 PM, Not greg b said:

Rumor I have seen being thrown out there was cheating on PPP loans and the IRS seized it 

I'm kinda surprised that people like that don't realize bankruptcy protection might be an option.  Seems like that dealership location has struggled to make a profit for a long time - nobody burns down a business when it's profitable (unless connected to organized crime).  Small business owners are a unique bunch of people - willing to take risks and bet their lives, and probably for that reason also often unwilling to admit when the jig is up.  

I think it's a requirement for small business owners to face long odds and keep going, same with farmers.  On the other hand, it's a weakness when they can't tell the difference between long odds and impossible odds.

I have repossessed a lot of independent dealers, and saw this a lot.