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22 XCR, Measure front track shock with cover on it?


Deephaven

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Gee, thanks Polaris. Perhaps in the manual it would be good to specify the stock setting where you can actually measure it.  That being said, I don't have a service manual where perhaps they do, but does anyone know the stock length?  New to me 22 XCR that I don't get to ride this year so I'd like to know where I am at baseline wise.

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Found this post where Lenn measured his out of the sled.

https://www.hardcoresledder.com/threads/lenns-recommended-xcr-suspension-settings.1883947/page-4#post-20633299

Not that it will stay there long, but I'd like to know where the min/max are and the baseline.  If anyone else has better info please share.

 

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Unfortunately my XCR is out at my buddy's place for the summer, otherwise I'd see if I could try and get you a measurement tonight.  I know I messed around with mine a little bit this season and probably ended up giving it a full turn ... maybe even a turn & a half .. to stiffen it up and from that point on I thought it was good.  Weird that Polaris doesn't measure like they used to, and the space between the collars using the open threads as the measurement space.

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40 minutes ago, Mag6240 said:

Moving on from the Assault?  I think you'll really like the XCR.  Which track did you get with it?

Assault is gone.  It has a studded Cobra.  Compromise of buying used.  Probably will just run it next year, but would prefer a BC or Ice Cobra....or a driver change to run a Hurricane.

33 minutes ago, Bontz said:

Unfortunately my XCR is out at my buddy's place for the summer, otherwise I'd see if I could try and get you a measurement tonight.  I know I messed around with mine a little bit this season and probably ended up giving it a full turn ... maybe even a turn & a half .. to stiffen it up and from that point on I thought it was good.  Weird that Polaris doesn't measure like they used to, and the space between the collars using the open threads as the measurement space.

Thanks.  I assume Lenn's measurements are ok, but was a bit miffed that the manual is so stupid.  I also haven't found a free shop manual for download yet and thought maybe it was in there.

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1.325" or 1.6"?  One of the guys in my club got the 1.6" Cobra and really likes it.  He does have a little more off trail ability than us 1.325" guys, even though he claims it's just rider skill!  All kidding aside, it is a noticeable difference.  

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paging @Doug

or did he quit after the CE fluff up?

I used to have the specs for the Axys in a file but it's not on my phone

from experience/trial error I typically set my FTS spring to touching and a quarter turn to get a full compression stroke.  this helps me determine if I have the correct spring and compression/rebound settings.  lot of trial and error but once I get a sled setup for myself in most conditions I only make small adjustments.

Race dept for terrain on the 600 CC says... 

Suspension spring preloads:

IFS springs: .750” preload on stock 125lb IFS spring

FT spring: .125” preload on stock race dual rate 135/185lb front track spring

RT springs: Medium/High on stock 13lb@80 degree torsion spring preload blocks

WER Shocks:

The Walker Evans Racing shocks are calibrated for Terrain Racing. Below are the stock shock settings.

IFS shocks: Gas Pressure: 150-PSI, High Speed Comp: 5, Low Speed Comp: 9, Rebound: 6

FT shock: Gas Pressure: 200-PSI, High Speed Comp: 5, Low Speed Comp: 8

RT shock: Gas Pressure: 200-PSI, High Speed Comp: 5, Low Speed Comp: 2, Rebound: 1

https://cdn1.polaris.com/globalassets/snow/2023/racing-resources/cross-country/2023-indy-cross-country-600-terrain-racing-set-up-sheet-update.pdf?v=b053686b

 

If you like yours setup stiff get in touch with someone that does WER shocks, get the proper springs and if you need help with stuff I know a guy in the race dept. and you know how to get in touch.  

 

Also, I'd go with the optional XC venting... because why even risk running warm?

https://cdn1.polaris.com/globalassets/snow/2023/racing-resources/cross-country/2023-permitted-additional-factory-600-cross-country-venting-w-templates.pdf?v=ad208e03

 

honestly, I wish Cat made this type of info easy for anyone looking to improve of make their sleds more durable the way Poo does... find more at https://snowmobiles.polaris.com/en-us/team-polaris/racer-resources/

 

 

 

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Thanks.  I've been on the racer site a bunch and really made the thread to bitch at Polaris.  I prefer a stock baseline but only so that my first day adjustments don't get me beyond the limits.  These were just refreshed 300mi ago though so I thought I would run them stock and hope they don't piss me off too bad next year....or I will be begging my guy for a rush job.

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7 hours ago, Deephaven said:

Thanks.  I've been on the racer site a bunch and really made the thread to bitch at Polaris.  I prefer a stock baseline but only so that my first day adjustments don't get me beyond the limits.  These were just refreshed 300mi ago though so I thought I would run them stock and hope they don't piss me off too bad next year....or I will be begging my guy for a rush job.

 Np, check the XCR spring rates compared to the Cross Country once... CC's are stiffer if my memory is correct.  Springs aren't usually very expensive.

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@Deephaven 

22/23 600 Cross Country 136"

Ski Spring (125lb) 7045096-458 

FTS Spring (135/185lb) 7045856-458 

Torsions (.375) 7045207-329 & 7045208-329 

 

 

22 XCR 850 136"

Ski Spring (100lb) 7045298-458

FTS Spring (90/280) 7045374-458 

Torsions (.359) 7045190-329 & 7045191-329 

 

Cross Country is sprung substantially stiffer than the XCR... which to me means you don't have to set the compression and rebound to full send for trail riding and have more adjustability to work with... if you want it set up stiff in the first place.  

 

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One of the guys in my club who has an XCR, and loves to jump A LOT (He's really good at it) had his shocks re-valved and springs upgraded from stock.  Sent them off to a guy in Stevens Point, Wenzlaff (SP?).

Just a comment from one of the better riders in my club, a former cross country and sno-cross racer:  I could bottom it out at will with the stock valving.  I also got HD torsion springs.  It's a night and day difference in the rough stuff (no comparison).  I hopped on another guys XCR this winter with stock setup and immediately noticed a difference and that was in the little bumps.  I will have every sled done from now on.  In the rough stuff is where it shines.

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Interesting.  Hadn't looked yet.  Ran 110lb springs on the IQr on the IFS and they were perfect.  The FTS spring is the one I am most worried about but also not sure how to compare 135/185 with 90/280.  I assume that it will be more compliant on the little stuff, but the question is how close on the big end with the 280.  The rear springs are easy enough to swap to the HD if the stock isn't ok.  I am not heavy at 208lbs so well within range of a normalish rider.

It's hard for me to make changes without riding first as that tells exactly what I need to change.  I really should have spent more time on my buddies, but didn't think I was going to buy one so didn't.  Doh!

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On 4/24/2023 at 8:27 AM, Deephaven said:

Found this post where Lenn measured his out of the sled.

https://www.hardcoresledder.com/threads/lenns-recommended-xcr-suspension-settings.1883947/page-4#post-20633299

Not that it will stay there long, but I'd like to know where the min/max are and the baseline.  If anyone else has better info please share.

 

For me I run 1.50 pre-load on the FTP (see picture).  This is not a lot of per-load and slightly tight enough to keep the spring keeper engaged.  If you start to add pre-load the sled will push more in the corners. Guys are also pulling the front limit strap up but that is rather a large adjustment that I don't like to do as your now taking suspension travel away from the sled.  An old style adjustable limit strap would be ideal.

I also made different coupler blocks that couple the suspension .125 sooner than the stock blocks.  When I had the stock coupler blocks they were set on high.  This helps with ski lift.  For the rear torsion springs went with one stock set on high and one HD set on low.  2023 XCR came with HD springs

If your looking for shock work would also recommend Andy Wenzlaff.  He does good work and good with information.  I do my own shock work and try different setups for myself.  If I get it wrong then it's only me that is pulling the suspension out and changing things.   Will be changing the FTS to a dual-range spring on my 2024 XCR to start the season.

    

20230425_111744.jpg

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1 hour ago, Mag6240 said:

One of the guys in my club who has an XCR, and loves to jump A LOT (He's really good at it) had his shocks re-valved and springs upgraded from stock.  Sent them off to a guy in Stevens Point, Wenzlaff (SP?).

Just a comment from one of the better riders in my club, a former cross country and sno-cross racer:  I could bottom it out at will with the stock valving.  I also got HD torsion springs.  It's a night and day difference in the rough stuff (no comparison).  I hopped on another guys XCR this winter with stock setup and immediately noticed a difference and that was in the little bumps.  I will have every sled done from now on.  In the rough stuff is where it shines.

Yup - he's getting my VR1 shocks this summer and doing his magic on them.  If I had planned on keeping my XCR, I would have sent those shocks to Andy instead - but I'm hoping what he does with the VR1 makes it comparable to the XCR (I know it won't be identical, but should be close ... and likely better than a stock XCR minus the higher end shocks on the XCR models).

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56 minutes ago, Bontz said:

Yup - he's getting my VR1 shocks this summer and doing his magic on them.  If I had planned on keeping my XCR, I would have sent those shocks to Andy instead - but I'm hoping what he does with the VR1 makes it comparable to the XCR (I know it won't be identical, but should be close ... and likely better than a stock XCR minus the higher end shocks on the XCR models).

Andy's place is 2 miles from the little woman's house.  I brought a few sets to him last year for a couple guys... saved the shipping.

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9 minutes ago, Mag6240 said:

Andy's place is 2 miles from the little woman's house.  I brought a few sets to him last year for a couple guys... saved the shipping.

So you're saying you'll be in my neck of the woods to get my shocks to/from Andy?? :roflcrying:

(Kidding, of course)

 

I'm excited to see what this VR1 will be like next season.  I didn't want to ride it at all, even though there was a couple opportunities to do so before the end of the season & now I'm kind of regretting it - just to see what it would have been like in stock form with the shock setup.  Between the heavier torsion springs, Andy's shock work, and spring updates on the shocks themselves, it should bode well.

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9 minutes ago, Bontz said:

So you're saying you'll be in my neck of the woods to get my shocks to/from Andy?? :roflcrying:

(Kidding, of course)

 

I'm excited to see what this VR1 will be like next season.  I didn't want to ride it at all, even though there was a couple opportunities to do so before the end of the season & now I'm kind of regretting it - just to see what it would have been like in stock form with the shock setup.  Between the heavier torsion springs, Andy's shock work, and spring updates on the shocks themselves, it should bode well.

Well, the little woman did mention making a road trip to Kelly’s again sometime in the near future… 

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I've always used Steve Dey to build mine as he is local.  Appreciate all the responses!

2 hours ago, Doug said:

For me I run 1.50 pre-load on the FTP (see picture).  This is not a lot of per-load and slightly tight enough to keep the spring keeper engaged.  If you start to add pre-load the sled will push more in the corners. Guys are also pulling the front limit strap up but that is rather a large adjustment that I don't like to do as your now taking suspension travel away from the sled.  An old style adjustable limit strap would be ideal.

Gotcha, I like the sled to really teeter between ski pressure and lifting the skis to clear obstacles so run mine a bit different.  I also have no need to deal with the limiter strap for the same reason.  99% sure though that most people that I'd plop on my sled would prefer I set it up like you did.

2 hours ago, Doug said:

I also made different coupler blocks that couple the suspension .125 sooner than the stock blocks.  When I had the stock coupler blocks they were set on high.  This helps with ski lift.  For the rear torsion springs went with one stock set on high and one HD set on low.  2023 XCR came with HD springs

My thought was I might end up there as well.  Not sure I need both springs HD, but expect one may be a necessity.  Glad to see I am not alone :)

2 hours ago, Doug said:

If your looking for shock work would also recommend Andy Wenzlaff.  He does good work and good with information.  I do my own shock work and try different setups for myself.  If I get it wrong then it's only me that is pulling the suspension out and changing things.   Will be changing the FTS to a dual-range spring on my 2024 XCR to start the season.

    

20230425_111744.jpg

Is that 1.5" with the stock spring on your 22 or 23?  Will use that as a limit as I imagine I will want it tighter, but adjusting on the trail means it is harder to get the weight off the skid to check it.

I'll have to look into Andy.  I've been using Steve Dey, but when he sold off his distribution to Carver his responsiveness on shock rebuilds hasn't been as good.  He did hand deliver a set to me once all the way across the cities though on his dime!

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2 hours ago, Deephaven said:

I've always used Steve Dey to build mine as he is local.  Appreciate all the responses!

Gotcha, I like the sled to really teeter between ski pressure and lifting the skis to clear obstacles so run mine a bit different.  I also have no need to deal with the limiter strap for the same reason.  99% sure though that most people that I'd plop on my sled would prefer I set it up like you did.

My thought was I might end up there as well.  Not sure I need both springs HD, but expect one may be a necessity.  Glad to see I am not alone :)

Is that 1.5" with the stock spring on your 22 or 23?  Will use that as a limit as I imagine I will want it tighter, but adjusting on the trail means it is harder to get the weight off the skid to check it.

I'll have to look into Andy.  I've been using Steve Dey, but when he sold off his distribution to Carver his responsiveness on shock rebuilds hasn't been as good.  He did hand deliver a set to me once all the way across the cities though on his dime!

Steve Dey was a great guy to work with and I was sorry to see him sell out to Carver.  Carver's inventory of parts is starting to get limited with a lot of part "out of stock"  Been buying more parts from Hygear lately.

The 1.5 pre-load was with the stock spring and I have the dual-rate spring ordered through Andy.

You may be good with the stock coupler blocks if you like a little ski lift.  Since your coming off an Assault your use to moving your body fore and back to control ski lift.

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Steve only sold his distribution business not his shock rebuilding.  He's done a bunch of mine since....but as of this year his website is gone so I am wondering.  I have his cell phone though and drive by his hous/shop often so....

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On 4/25/2023 at 2:21 PM, Deephaven said:

I've always used Steve Dey to build mine as he is local.  Appreciate all the responses!

Gotcha, I like the sled to really teeter between ski pressure and lifting the skis to clear obstacles so run mine a bit different.  I also have no need to deal with the limiter strap for the same reason.  99% sure though that most people that I'd plop on my sled would prefer I set it up like you did.

My thought was I might end up there as well.  Not sure I need both springs HD, but expect one may be a necessity.  Glad to see I am not alone :)

Is that 1.5" with the stock spring on your 22 or 23?  Will use that as a limit as I imagine I will want it tighter, but adjusting on the trail means it is harder to get the weight off the skid to check it.

I'll have to look into Andy.  I've been using Steve Dey, but when he sold off his distribution to Carver his responsiveness on shock rebuilds hasn't been as good.  He did hand deliver a set to me once all the way across the cities though on his dime!

As a reference I had 1.00" pre-load on the front stock spring.  A lot of sleds got delivered with no pre-load dialed in and were riding them like that.  Then they complaining that the sleds didn't handle good.

20230427_150950.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 5 months later...

Installed a dual-rate spring on the FTS on my 2024 XCR.  Also checked the shock charge and both were low.  FTS was 150psi and RTS was 130psi.  Brought them both up to 200 psi.

20231012_145510.jpg

Edited by Doug
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