Ez ryder Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 34 minutes ago, Not greg b said: A factory snow bike will be in the 15k range easily. A snow bike would cost way more to produce than a snowmobile. Way more going on with them. A snowmobile is one big piece of stamped out aluminum, a simple skid frame, track and plastics they are done 15k would still be a base line bike . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 7 hours ago, AK440 said: There is no reason that a factory built snowbike could be a nice alternative or compliment to a sled. Most snowmobiles own more than one machine. Wouldn’t it make more sense to sell less expensive snowbikes to the Midwest group that rides out west than $15,000 mountain sleds? I have no idea how big of a group or how popular it is for the Midwest market to haul their machines all the way to the mountains but it must be pretty significant seeing as how mountain sleds dominate sled sales now. This group must have significant disposable income, so less expensive, more capable toys for mountain riding would be very appealing. As far a maintenance intervals, that’s why a purpose built snowbike is needed. A CVT equipped 400cc 2-stroke is going to be far more reliable and more powerful than a strung out 450 MX bike that was designed for summer use only dirt bike with a much lighter drivetrain. If Cat was to release their snowbike I could see Polaris offering something the next season. BRP already has a concept snowbike that actually makes way more sense for the average rider. https://sledmagazine.com/the-white-rabbit-concept/ A cvt 400 2t would be interesting. However the cvt requires more space and adds some weight. But I agree a clean sheet build would be way better, not these converted dirt bikes. Ultimately I feel like it's a tall order to compete against the mountain machines. They work and are purpose built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK440 Posted November 20, 2022 Author Share Posted November 20, 2022 3 hours ago, Not greg b said: A factory snow bike will be in the 15k range easily. A snow bike would cost way more to produce than a snowmobile. Way more going on with them. A snowmobile is one big piece of stamped out aluminum, a simple skid frame, track and plastics they are done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK440 Posted November 20, 2022 Author Share Posted November 20, 2022 1 hour ago, mnstang said: A cvt 400 2t would be interesting. However the cvt requires more space and adds some weight. But I agree a clean sheet build would be way better, not these converted dirt bikes. Ultimately I feel like it's a tall order to compete against the mountain machines. They work and are purpose built. The power to weight of a purpose built snowbike combined with its agility would make current mountain sleds look lame and silly in steep/deep terrain. Right know they are quite capable in the right conditions and are a halfass, dirt bike contraption with a manual clutch and shifting. 2 hours ago, Ez ryder said: 15k would still be a base line bike . Why? There are less parts. 3 hours ago, Not greg b said: A factory snow bike will be in the 15k range easily. A snow bike would cost way more to produce than a snowmobile. Way more going on with them. A snowmobile is one big piece of stamped out aluminum, a simple skid frame, track and plastics they are done Are you kidding? A sled is way more complicated to build than a snowbike. Everything has to be bigger, heavier, longer and more powerful to deal with the additional weight. A sled requires even more body panels for fucks sake. Sounds like you’ve not looked at the bulkhead of a snowmobile since the 80’s. The don’t stamp out bulkhead parts anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 7 hours ago, AK440 said: The power to weight of a purpose built snowbike combined with its agility would make current mountain sleds look lame and silly in steep/deep terrain. Right know they are quite capable in the right conditions and are a halfass, dirt bike contraption with a manual clutch and shifting. Why? There are less parts. Are you kidding? A sled is way more complicated to build than a snowbike. Everything has to be bigger, heavier, longer and more powerful to deal with the additional weight. A sled requires even more body panels for fucks sake. Sounds like you’ve not looked at the bulkhead of a snowmobile since the 80’s. The don’t stamp out bulkhead parts anymore. Snowbike will have a worse power to weight ratio. And I don't know how you do a cvt without adding so much bulk that it totally defeats the purpose. I like dirt bikes, and I like snowmobiles. That doesn't mean they should be merged. I don't see what you're looking to gain. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriftBusta Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 Fun for offtrailing and playing in the trees maybe, but nothing i'd want for any miles, let alone lack of power. Most of all, they won't be cheap. Timbersled has refined their concept through the years, but same story, and even with a 60 hp 450 motor, they feel pretty gutless compared to a normal sle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ez ryder Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 11 hours ago, AK440 said: The power to weight of a purpose built snowbike combined with its agility would make current mountain sleds look lame and silly in steep/deep terrain. Right know they are quite capable in the right conditions and are a halfass, dirt bike contraption with a manual clutch and shifting. Why? There are less parts. Are you kidding? A sled is way more complicated to build than a snowbike. Everything has to be bigger, heavier, longer and more powerful to deal with the additional weight. A sled requires even more body panels for fucks sake. Sounds like you’ve not looked at the bulkhead of a snowmobile since the 80’s. The don’t stamp out bulkhead parts anymore. So the way you talk you must have never riden on a snow bike let alone spent any real time on one especaly in the mountains let alone built one 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not greg b Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 13 hours ago, AK440 said: The power to weight of a purpose built snowbike combined with its agility would make current mountain sleds look lame and silly in steep/deep terrain. Right know they are quite capable in the right conditions and are a halfass, dirt bike contraption with a manual clutch and shifting. Why? There are less parts. Are you kidding? A sled is way more complicated to build than a snowbike. Everything has to be bigger, heavier, longer and more powerful to deal with the additional weight. A sled requires even more body panels for fucks sake. Sounds like you’ve not looked at the bulkhead of a snowmobile since the 80’s. The don’t stamp out bulkhead parts anymore. Sounds like you have not had a modern sled apart. They weigh nothing. All of the weight is the engine and skid frame. Look at how cat is building the blast. Now look at how they are building the catalyst. It’s a one piece frame now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member EvilBird Posted November 21, 2022 Gold Member Share Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) 22 hours ago, AK440 said: The power to weight of a purpose built snowbike combined with its agility would make current mountain sleds look lame and silly in steep/deep terrain. Right know they are quite capable in the right conditions and are a halfass, dirt bike contraption with a manual clutch and shifting. Why? There are less parts. Are you kidding? A sled is way more complicated to build than a snowbike. Everything has to be bigger, heavier, longer and more powerful to deal with the additional weight. A sled requires even more body panels for fucks sake. Sounds like you’ve not looked at the bulkhead of a snowmobile since the 80’s. The don’t stamp out bulkhead parts anymore. WTF are you talking about? When is the last time you looked at the prices of new off road motorcycles? You keep thinking cheaper, a snowbike will not be cheap , period . Edited November 21, 2022 by EvilBird 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK440 Posted November 21, 2022 Author Share Posted November 21, 2022 11 minutes ago, EvilBird said: WTF are you talking about? When is the last time you looked at the prices of new off road motorcycles? You keep thinking cheaper, a snowbike will not be cheap , period . Hey fucktard, did I say I’m buying a 450 MX bike with an overpriced and under engineered ski/track kit? Think about it, there is less material in a purpose built snowbike. If there is less material there is less cost. The whole damn machine is smaller and lighter than a modern trail or mountain sled. It doesn’t require cast aluminum pieces to make the frame. It can be built out of tube steel like an ATV. Tube steel isn’t expensive. The fucking rear skid suspension components can be the same exact shit they use on regular sleds, same as everything else like switch gear, handlebars, the Blast 400cc motor, same clutches, same heat exchangers. It’s a goddamn parts built machine with a unique frame and a motorcycle fork. Not exactly rocket science nor high tech or high performance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member EvilBird Posted November 21, 2022 Gold Member Share Posted November 21, 2022 50 minutes ago, AK440 said: Hey fucktard, did I say I’m buying a 450 MX bike with an overpriced and under engineered ski/track kit? Think about it, there is less material in a purpose built snowbike. If there is less material there is less cost. The whole damn machine is smaller and lighter than a modern trail or mountain sled. It doesn’t require cast aluminum pieces to make the frame. It can be built out of tube steel like an ATV. Tube steel isn’t expensive. The fucking rear skid suspension components can be the same exact shit they use on regular sleds, same as everything else like switch gear, handlebars, the Blast 400cc motor, same clutches, same heat exchangers. It’s a goddamn parts built machine with a unique frame and a motorcycle fork. Not exactly rocket science nor high tech or high performance. Build one then , sounds like you got it all figured out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK440 Posted November 21, 2022 Author Share Posted November 21, 2022 1 hour ago, EvilBird said: Build one then , sounds like you got it all figured out! Uh huh. Do you have a welder and a metal shop in your garage? Me wanting Cat to get off their ass and produce what they already have patented isn’t asking for the moon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 6 hours ago, AK440 said: Uh huh. Do you have a welder and a metal shop in your garage? Me wanting Cat to get off their ass and produce what they already have patented isn’t asking for the moon. just because you or I want something... Cat people (not all of them mind you) have been waiting for a new chassis and bigger bore engine for quite a while now. New chassis is coming, new big bore isn't ready, new four stroke version isn't being discussed... so get in line with everyone else. I want a fast revving reliable 389lb 128" 100hp 500cc 87 octane burning trail ripper with premium shocks no electric start and a testicle warmer for less than $11,111.11 So just fyi, you're in line behind me pal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstang Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 13 hours ago, AK440 said: Hey fucktard, did I say I’m buying a 450 MX bike with an overpriced and under engineered ski/track kit? Think about it, there is less material in a purpose built snowbike. If there is less material there is less cost. The whole damn machine is smaller and lighter than a modern trail or mountain sled. It doesn’t require cast aluminum pieces to make the frame. It can be built out of tube steel like an ATV. Tube steel isn’t expensive. The fucking rear skid suspension components can be the same exact shit they use on regular sleds, same as everything else like switch gear, handlebars, the Blast 400cc motor, same clutches, same heat exchangers. It’s a goddamn parts built machine with a unique frame and a motorcycle fork. Not exactly rocket science nor high tech or high performance. A dirt bike frame is way more sophisticated than you think. That is where most of the r&d and advancements come from is the frame. They make minor changes to thicknesses, material and design to key areas to change the desired flex and rigidity, both torsional and latitude and longitude. It's not just welding some steel tubes together and bolting parts to it. And only the Austrian bikes and other boutique brands use steel anyway the Japanese use aluminum. And it's one thing to bolt parts together but to make it work well it will need a ton of r&d. That's also why I wonder about timber sled stuff. It technically works but I'm sure it can be so much better. R&d and testing costs a lot of money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krom Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 5 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said: just because you or I want something... Cat people (not all of them mind you) have been waiting for a new chassis and bigger bore engine for quite a while now. New chassis is coming, new big bore is ready and will be released at haydays, new four strokes will follow... . fixed it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 14 minutes ago, krom said: fixed it Big bore will be released at Haydays - in Aug 2023? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 21 minutes ago, krom said: fixed it Hay days 2025? Will the snowbike be there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krom Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Art Vandelay said: Big bore will be released at Haydays - in Aug 2023? Thats what they were telling people at the big east show... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 25 minutes ago, krom said: Thats what they were telling people at the big east show... more importantly... what about the snowbike? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK440 Posted November 21, 2022 Author Share Posted November 21, 2022 10 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said: just because you or I want something... Cat people (not all of them mind you) have been waiting for a new chassis and bigger bore engine for quite a while now. New chassis is coming, new big bore isn't ready, new four stroke version isn't being discussed... so get in line with everyone else. I want a fast revving reliable 389lb 128" 100hp 500cc 87 octane burning trail ripper with premium shocks no electric start and a testicle warmer for less than $11,111.11 So just fyi, you're in line behind me pal. You could modify an existing SP500 to get very close to what you want. I want what they already designed and patented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sled_Hed Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 1 minute ago, AK440 said: You could modify an existing SP500 to get very close to what you want. I want what they already designed and patented but never released due to being a niche market with low sales. Fixed 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 52 minutes ago, AK440 said: You could modify an existing SP500 to get very close to what you want. I want what they already designed and patented. I have two already, one with 85hp and one with much more. Honestly, I think you are the only one I've ever seen be this persistent about a factory snowbike. Have you considered writing Arctic Cat a beautiful letter yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krom Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Snowbike was killed when textron took over, I still believe it would sell more units than the blast, and be priced very similar, or below the blast. Poo thought/thinks the market is big enough to continue investing in it.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK440 Posted November 22, 2022 Author Share Posted November 22, 2022 4 hours ago, Sled_Hed said: Fixed 3 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said: I have two already, one with 85hp and one with much more. Honestly, I think you are the only one I've ever seen be this persistent about a factory snowbike. Have you considered writing Arctic Cat a beautiful letter yet? It’s becoming quite obvious that the demographic of this forum skews hard towards old men who are more into posting and drinking than they are riding sleds. People on here don’t get it, aren’t open minded to any new type of snow vehicle and can’t appreciate that the sport is dying and in need of an alternative to ever more expensive traditional snowmobiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sled_Hed Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, AK440 said: It’s becoming quite obvious that the demographic of this forum skews hard towards old men who are more into posting and drinking than they are riding sleds. People on here don’t get it, aren’t open minded to any new type of snow vehicle and can’t appreciate that the sport is dying and in need of an alternative to ever more expensive traditional snowmobiles. Lol. I've posted plenty pics of riding but thanks for the assumption. You got that from those comments? What age do you consider old? Edited November 22, 2022 by Sled_Hed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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