Big bore 2S now and in the future...

[Crnr2Crnr]

So for 2023 Polaris has the 850 boost, the 850 and the 9R.  BRP has the 850.  Cat has the 800 in the antique chassis.  

Polaris is the only one with a T2S trail hypersled and the 9R is only in limited non trail models.

How will BRP respond?  Shall we anticipate a T2S from them as they are in their mountain sleds. 

Cat, IDK what Car is bringing but if it's naturally aspirated it better be big... and have a turbo option for the mountain riders.  I'm curious to see how they deal with EPA compliance and durability after all the ctech 8000 'issues'. 

This all said, I'm more interested in Cat's new 600 unlike most crying about the lack of a big bore in the new chassis for 2024.  

 

 

[krom]

You must have seen the AC turbo 2S patents floating around..

I'm all for a turbo 2 stroke trail sled from AC, but textron is conservative.  The hypersled guys have the turbo 4S that makes 300 hp on pump gas with more reliability than poo has ever had had on anything, let alone the bigger than 600 CC category.

[Deephaven]

No new motor development in sleds from yamahahahaha which means if it doesn't fit in the chassis that all ends.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, krom said:

You must have seen the AC turbo 2S patents floating around..

I'm all for a turbo 2 stroke trail sled from AC, but textron is conservative.  The hypersled guys have the turbo 4S that makes 300 hp on pump gas with more reliability than poo has ever had had on anything, let alone the bigger than 600 CC category.

Warrantied sled vs warrantied sled prelim results show the Yamaha 4S getting blown away by the 100lb lighter more powerful Polaris 2S boost. I know "but mod sleds!!" , yeah ok Yamaha has that 4S market. What does Cat actually build that makes power?The new 600 

[Deephaven]

That Yammy 4 stroke currently only fits in their old, dated chassis.  Not the new uber one that all Cat fans are blindly clamoring over pre-ride.  They are all going to eat crow or hate the new chassis.  All the beef they have with the Poo or Doo is now on their machine.

[Deephaven]

I'm just happy to hope that it will be what it should be and that is a monstrous improvement.  Means only a few more years to wait for the big bore to get settled and I have another choice.  New Catalyst looks MILES ahead of the Procross.

[krom]

9 hours ago, HSR said:

Warrantied sled vs warrantied sled prelim results show the Yamaha 4S getting blown away by the 100lb lighter more powerful Polaris 2S boost. I know "but mod sleds!!" , yeah ok Yamaha has that 4S market. What does Cat actually build that makes power?The new 600 

No shit, you mean the new machine that hasn't hit the snow yet is getting hyped...

The boost doesn't make as much power as a 998, let alone "more powerful"

And I hate to sound like a greasy triple guy, but while weight is critical for drag racing, it doesn't have much effect on top speed across the lake.

[Crnr2Crnr]

13 hours ago, krom said:

You must have seen the AC turbo 2S patents floating around..

I'm all for a turbo 2 stroke trail sled from AC, but textron is conservative.  The hypersled guys have the turbo 4S that makes 300 hp on pump gas with more reliability than poo has ever had had on anything, let alone the bigger than 600 CC category.

of course, but I'd speculate a turbo would be mountain focused, at least initially.

keep that 4s crap talk out of this.

8 hours ago, Deephaven said:

I'm just happy to hope that it will be what it should be and that is a monstrous improvement.  Means only a few more years to wait for the big bore to get settled and I have another choice.  New Catalyst looks MILES ahead of the Procross.

there's probably a little Procross DNA in it but there's no way they could have stayed with that chassis and remained solvent.  Catalyst looks good on paper and in pictures so we'll have to wait and see how well they executed in the real world.  

wonder if Polaris is going to offer the 9R in the xcr for 2024?  that mill would probably be quite amusing in a 136

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Crnr2Crnr

[Deephaven]

16 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

there's probably a little Procross DNA in it but there's no way they could have stayed with that chassis and remained solvent.  Catalyst looks good on paper and in pictures so we'll have to wait and see how well they executed in the real world.  

Rear skid aside it is much more Doo/Poo than ProCross.

16 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

wonder if Polaris is going to offer the 9R in the xcr for 2024?  that mill would probably be quite amusing in a 136

It's coming and I will have one.  

[Gym Ramstud]

11 hours ago, Deephaven said:

 

It's coming and I will have one.  

Gym won't be waiting until 2024.  Gym will be ripping wheelies and spraying roost all over Norman County this winter.  Gym has been training to pull start his 9R by lifting five-gallon pails of gravel the Norman County taxpayers won't miss.  Gym believes electric start is for men who don't eat their Wheaties.  Gym loves Wheaties almost as much as his hero Bruce Jenner.  Gym is very fond of Bruce.  

[Ez ryder]

On 9/20/2022 at 11:33 AM, Crnr2Crnr said:

So for 2023 Polaris has the 850 boost, the 850 and the 9R.  BRP has the 850.  Cat has the 800 in the antique chassis.  

Polaris is the only one with a T2S trail hypersled and the 9R is only in limited non trail models.

How will BRP respond?  Shall we anticipate a T2S from them as they are in their mountain sleds. 

Cat, IDK what Car is bringing but if it's naturally aspirated it better be big... and have a turbo option for the mountain riders.  I'm curious to see how they deal with EPA compliance and durability after all the ctech 8000 'issues'. 

This all said, I'm more interested in Cat's new 600 unlike most crying about the lack of a big bore in the new chassis for 2024.  

 

 

Doo had a turbo with warrenty few yrs back .yeah it was dealer installed but still maintenence doo warrenty.  Turbo on a 2st Dimond pounder at sea level will keep you on your toes . 

 

 

[Bontz]

Who are you trying to kid, Karen .... you won't pony up and buy anything NEW.  You'll continue to run the older stuff and run your flaps about the new stuff everyone else is riding 

As far as the "hypersled" market goes, I wouldn't be dropping $22K (or more) on the new Boost ... especially not in its first year, let alone with all of the COVID quality bullshit that's been plaguing the OEM's.  Hell, I'm nervous enough just buying a new 850 (840), the way things went last year.  My buddy has a Boost on order, and I hope it's a great sled - but I'm skeptical on how it holds up for a full season.

Textron is working on pounding the final nail in Cat's coffin, and it makes me sick to think what the "old guard" at Cat is thinking.  A pretty rich heritage of sleds and performance, just circling the drain more and more every year.

[Crnr2Crnr]

9 minutes ago, Bontz said:

Who are you trying to kid, Karen .... you won't pony up and buy anything NEW.  You'll continue to run the older stuff and run your flaps about the new stuff everyone else is riding 

As far as the "hypersled" market goes, I wouldn't be dropping $22K (or more) on the new Boost ... especially not in its first year, let alone with all of the COVID quality bullshit that's been plaguing the OEM's.  Hell, I'm nervous enough just buying a new 850 (840), the way things went last year.  My buddy has a Boost on order, and I hope it's a great sled - but I'm skeptical on how it holds up for a full season.

Textron is working on pounding the final nail in Cat's coffin, and it makes me sick to think what the "old guard" at Cat is thinking.  A pretty rich heritage of sleds and performance, just circling the drain more and more every year.

great, Bontz550 wants a tnw challenge.  tell us about your maglite.  

you disapprove of the new chassis and ??? engines?  

did you see Donn Eide passed away, speaking of the old guard.

https://www.arcticinsider.com/remembering-an-arctic-cat-legend-donn-eide/

[Deephaven]

I don't buy new or at least didn't use to, but I am very interested in a 1-2 yr old piece that is highly discounted.  Makes me watch the new releases with great interest.

Of course thanks to Covid I may order a 900r XCR 13x next year as the price of used shit is out of control.

[Bontz]

IDGAF what you make, or what you're worth ... I'm just calling a spade a spade.  You don't buy new shit (which is fine).  But you like to run your flaps ... which is also fine, I guess 

No, I don't disapprove of the Catalyst ... it's long overdue.  But Cat has had this big bore in the works for a long time - or at least that's what I've heard.  Heck, I remember seeing the 900 pistons and cylinders on a desk in Cannon Falls 5+  years ago.  Then again, we all know how f'd up the EPA is when it comes to sleds and 2-stroke engines.  As it's been said 100 times already, Cat / Textron did enough to keep their diehards happy (or maybe the better word is, intrigued) ... but without the big bore to go with it, they've done nothing to bring people back.  And that's why I say they're circling the drain.

[Crnr2Crnr]

21 minutes ago, Bontz said:

IDGAF what you make, or what you're worth ... I'm just calling a spade a spade.  You don't buy new shit (which is fine).  But you like to run your flaps ... which is also fine, I guess 

No, I don't disapprove of the Catalyst ... it's long overdue.  But Cat has had this big bore in the works for a long time - or at least that's what I've heard.  Heck, I remember seeing the 900 pistons and cylinders on a desk in Cannon Falls 5+  years ago.  Then again, we all know how f'd up the EPA is when it comes to sleds and 2-stroke engines.  As it's been said 100 times already, Cat / Textron did enough to keep their diehards happy (or maybe the better word is, intrigued) ... but without the big bore to go with it, they've done nothing to bring people back.  And that's why I say they're circling the drain.

imo, they should have launched with the 600, existing 800 and then when the big bore is gtg, release it.  if the chassis is as light as rumors say an 800 should be adequate for most.  the mountain guys must be the most frustrated.

I give poopoo credit for having the 840, 9R and 840boost.  that's a lot of potential engine troubles... and options for their consumers. 

 

 

[Deephaven]

What is the over under on the "big bore" being only an 800?

[Crnr2Crnr]

Just now, Deephaven said:

What is the over under on the "big bore" being only an 800?

841cc

😆

[Bontz]

Was the ZR900 an 860, if I remember correctly?  I'd wager that's what you're going to see ... unless they really try to set the bar and go 900/925.

[p51mstg]

The Cat 800 has been good to me, knock on wood.  But, there's a dark cloud following it around.  Kind of like the Ford Ecoboost engines...  Seem to work just fine, but still questions about reliability.

As for why no 800 in the new chassis, we have stuff like this happen in software development all the time - R&D budget is limited, never enough time or money to do everything you want to do.  Some enhancements sit on the shelf for years.  Budget always goes to fixing bugs first, and there are always bugs.

[Crnr2Crnr]

30 minutes ago, p51mstg said:

The Cat 800 has been good to me, knock on wood.  But, there's a dark cloud following it around.  Kind of like the Ford Ecoboost engines...  Seem to work just fine, but still questions about reliability.

As for why no 800 in the new chassis, we have stuff like this happen in software development all the time - R&D budget is limited, never enough time or money to do everything you want to do.  Some enhancements sit on the shelf for years.  Budget always goes to fixing bugs first, and there are always bugs.

one guess I'll take, they don't want to spend $ on a pipe if the 'new' big bore is different.  

if my memory is correct the 800 dyno'd better with an am pipe in the Procross.  @taperk600 would know.

 

https://www.freedomsledder.com/index.php?/topic/41259-

Edited September 23, 2022 by Crnr2Crnr

[wrinkly balls]

Cat doesn't need a big bore. The all new cattle ass 600 will lay roost to the 8 fittys because of its game changing chasis and state of the art efi system!!!!!

[Not greg b]

1 hour ago, Bontz said:

Was the ZR900 an 860, if I remember correctly?  I'd wager that's what you're going to see ... unless they really try to set the bar and go 900/925.

Yes it was. Northern crank made a stroker crank for the current 800 to make it an 860. That is probably similar to what the new engine will be

[Crnr2Crnr]

9 minutes ago, Not greg b said:

Yes it was. Northern crank made a stroker crank for the current 800 to make it an 860. That is probably similar to what the new engine will be

https://www.terraalpsracing.com/product/arctic-cat-ctec-800-840-862-870-900-980cc-performance-kits-bigbores-strokers-2018-22

silly...

[Gym Ramstud]

On 9/23/2022 at 9:02 AM, p51mstg said:

The Cat 800 has been good to me, knock on wood.  But, there's a dark cloud following it around.  Kind of like the Ford Ecoboost engines...  Seem to work just fine, but still questions about reliability.

As for why no 800 in the new chassis, we have stuff like this happen in software development all the time - R&D budget is limited, never enough time or money to do everything you want to do.  Some enhancements sit on the shelf for years.  Budget always goes to fixing bugs first, and there are always bugs.

Gym would trust that engine as much as a wet fart.

On 9/23/2022 at 9:32 AM, wrinkly balls said:

Cat doesn't need a big bore. The all new cattle ass 600 will lay roost to the 8 fittys because of its game changing chasis and state of the art efi system!!!!!

Gym hopes you are able to conquer your drug addiction.