2024 Arctic Cat Catalyst 'Chassis' details?

[mnstang]

41 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

when even @mnstanglowers his green goggles for further analysis, you might too.

he is pretty sharp... 

I don't know what the whole green goggles thing is supposed to mean, I just have a curiosity about it.  Logic and OCD tells me the system won't be "true" at different eccentric bearing positions.  It likely will be an amount of change where it won't affect anything and I'm not under the assumption that any sleds are blueprinted square coming out of any factory anyway.  But as someone who will spend time in my garage to blueprint these things, it jumps out at me right away.  I'm not too worried about it.  But I'd still prefer a locked down shaft with a tensioner but whatever.  Maybe I'll do that on my own if it bothers me so much.  Doubt it.

[ZR6000RR]

Motorcycle belt drives can last 100,000 miles. That would be infinite to a sled, I would say. 

[Boonbocker1]

6 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

Motorcycle belt drives can last 100,000 miles. That would be infinite to a sled, I would say. 

Very different use case.  Now if moto x bikes ran them successfully I'd say you have a valid point.

[Crnr2Crnr]

23 minutes ago, mnstang said:

I don't know what the whole green goggles thing is supposed to mean, I just have a curiosity about it.  Logic and OCD tells me the system won't be "true" at different eccentric bearing positions.  It likely will be an amount of change where it won't affect anything and I'm not under the assumption that any sleds are blueprinted square coming out of any factory anyway.  But as someone who will spend time in my garage to blueprint these things, it jumps out at me right away.  I'm not too worried about it.  But I'd still prefer a locked down shaft with a tensioner but whatever.  Maybe I'll do that on my own if it bothers me so much.  Doubt it.

I agree with the majority of your points made here.  Personally I'd prefer a traditional tensioner as well much like TKI which has a kit to convert the direct fit belt to a tensioner configuration. 

https://tkicnc.com/product/2016-2019-polaris-axys-2-6-belt-drive/

[ZR6000RR]

2 minutes ago, Boonbocker1 said:

Very different use case.  Now if moto x bikes ran them successfully I'd say you have a valid point.

The belt on the bike is outside in the elements so your correct. Very different. Probably last longer on a sled.

[Boonbocker1]

2 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

The belt on the bike is outside in the elements so your correct. Very different. Probably last longer on a sled.

I was referring to the shock loads a sled see vs a big v twin cruiser or touring type bike

[ZR6000RR]

Just now, Boonbocker1 said:

I was referring to the shock loads a sled see vs a big v twin cruiser or touring type bike

You don't think burn outs on a bike is not a shock load? Hammering the throttle constantly? 

[mnstang]

12 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

Motorcycle belt drives can last 100,000 miles. That would be infinite to a sled, I would say. 

Definitely not.  Street motorcycles roll with no resistance, very low drag.  They also don't get shock loaded all the time like a sled can like from landing jumps on throttle or pounding through bumpy moguls under throttle.  Sleds also operate in much more extreme temps which is harder on materials.  Also 100,000 is not infinite.  Infinite means it would run until the end of time, and beyond, and never break.  Syxxes YouTube just had a video where he was cruising on a trail on his belt drive alpha, his rear bogie wheel came apart and locked up the track which caused his belt to break.  He wasn't even full throttle, just cruising.  That is shock load.  100,000 street bike miles would be more like 1,000 sled miles.  Also I have a buddy that kept breaking his Harley belt drives every couple rides, he had a hard time figuring out the problem but I believe it was an alignment issue.........

[Boonbocker1]

2 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

You don't think burn outs on a bike is not a shock load? Hammering the throttle constantly? 

You're saying the average cruiser bike customer can easily mimic the loading a snowmobile driveline sees hammering thru whoops, chatter bumps, clearing approaches, etc?

 

[ZR6000RR]

Just now, mnstang said:

Definitely not.  Street motorcycles roll with no resistance, very low drag.  They also don't get shock loaded all the time like a sled can like from landing jumps on throttle or pounding through bumpy moguls under throttle.  Sleds also operate in much more extreme temps which is harder on materials.  Also 100,000 is not infinite.  Infinite means it would run until the end of time, and beyond, and never break.  Syxxes YouTube just had a video where he was cruising on a trail on his belt drive alpha, his rear bogie wheel came apart and locked up the track which caused his belt to break.  He wasn't even full throttle, just cruising.  That is shock load.  100,000 street bike miles would be more like 1,000 sled miles.  Also I have a buddy that kept breaking his Harley belt drives every couple rides, he had a hard time figuring out the problem but I believe it was an alignment issue.........

That would have broken a chain as well. Any time you come to a complete stop like that, something has to give. A chain case might not have survived that. I know it is not infinite, but name me a sled with 100,000 miles on it? I don't stud, so not worried at all about it. Pretty confident I will never  have to change one but even if I did, they are less expensive to replace than a Chain case.

[Crnr2Crnr]

https://tkicnc.com/product/2015-2017-arctic-cat-belt-drive-oil-delete/

TKI setup with Tensioner... for older Procross 

[ZR6000RR]

1 minute ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

https://tkicnc.com/product/2015-2017-arctic-cat-belt-drive-oil-delete/

TKI setup with Tensioner... for older Procross 

So? They found a better way maybe? No need for a tensioner, which saves weight. Your not buying one anyway so?

[Crnr2Crnr]

1 minute ago, ZR6000RR said:

So? They found a better way maybe? No need for a tensioner, which saves weight. Your not buying one anyway so?

TKI has been making and selling them for quite a while Sport.

Correct, I'm not buying a 2024... but does that mean I wouldn't buy a 2025?   

[ZR6000RR]

2 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

TKI has been making and selling them for quite a while Sport.

Correct, I'm not buying a 2024... but does that mean I wouldn't buy a 2025?   

 

Yes they have, for mountain use. Cat just found an better way.  

[mnstang]

17 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

That would have broken a chain as well. Any time you come to a complete stop like that, something has to give. A chain case might not have survived that. I know it is not infinite, but name me a sled with 100,000 miles on it? I don't stud, so not worried at all about it. Pretty confident I will never  have to change one but even if I did, they are less expensive to replace than a Chain case.

Maybe.  I was on a winter camping trip with a loaded down procross going across a lake around 30-40mph a bag got caught in my track and sucked up and instantly locked the track.  About the same speed and load as that syxxes guy and my chain didn't break fortunately, I just had to reverse to get it unjammed.  I probably will carry a spare belt just in case, probably won't ever need it but don't trust it quite as much as a chain.  Yet.  But still glad they went to a belt drive but I'm not going to blindly trust it all the way right off the bat.  After I do a bunch of dumb shit and it doesn't break then I'll be good.  And those xc racers aren't breaking them so I'm sure they are more than strong enough for me.

[Crnr2Crnr]

7 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

Yes they have, for mountain use. Cat just found an better way.  

better way... in corporate language is generally cheaper and sells parts for the manufacturer down the road. 

why are the Polaris mountain riders carrying spare belts for stock belt drive setups ?  why does TKI offer a kit to convert from QuickDrive2 to their traditional tensioner configuration? 

I've worked for oems most my life... and cost always wins out over quality regardless of brand.  It's a bean counters and lawyers world.

Personally, I hope they are perfect and trouble free... as Cat can't afford another 2012 in 2024

[Crnr2Crnr]

 

 

[awful knawful]

1 hour ago, ZR6000RR said:

You don't think burn outs on a bike is not a shock load? Hammering the throttle constantly? 

You think a motorcycle tire or studded track is harder to turn?

[Deephaven]

1 hour ago, Boonbocker1 said:

You're saying the average cruiser bike customer can easily mimic the loading a snowmobile driveline sees hammering thru whoops, chatter bumps, clearing approaches, etc?

 

Well, jimwit does ride like a grandma so for him perhaps....but he is far from a normal rider.

1 hour ago, ZR6000RR said:

That would have broken a chain as well. Any time you come to a complete stop like that, something has to give. A chain case might not have survived that. 

So confident you basically contradict yourself.  Chain would have broken.  A chain case might not survive.  Stating you know anything about the durability of the chaincase versus the new untested belt system is completely asinine.  You assume it will work perfect because it's green, I am with Crnr in that I hope it does because another 2012 will doom the brand.

1 hour ago, ZR6000RR said:

I know it is not infinite, but name me a sled with 100,000 miles on it?

Well, Nick Keller has crossed that.  Hell he put on more than 99k in less than 1 year.  Either way, 100k and infinite are HUGELY different.

1 hour ago, ZR6000RR said:

 I don't stud, so not worried at all about it. 

So for those that stud it is way less than infinite or way less than 100k?  ........

1 hour ago, ZR6000RR said:

Pretty confident I will never  have to change one but even if I did, they are less expensive to replace than a Chain case.

First year system, brand new part, AND it will be sold cheaper than a replacement chain?  Why don't you show us your complete lack of business understanding.  Amusing that you are also referencing now replacing a part that should last an infinite number of miles.  More contradictions in your post than truths.

[krom]

I've had these part numbers for about a year:

0627-127 BELT,DRIVE-DCVS N8 38.3W X 1198  $331.51

0627-128 BELT,FINAL DRIVE-8MM P, 112T, 36MM W $228.95

[stinkipinki]

When Partzilla or whomever else lists the microfish for Cats new belt drive, all of your questions will be answered.

[Deephaven]

32 minutes ago, krom said:

I've had these part numbers for about a year:

0627-127 BELT,DRIVE-DCVS N8 38.3W X 1198  $331.51

0627-128 BELT,FINAL DRIVE-8MM P, 112T, 36MM W $228.95

So more expensive than the chain.  Nice work Jimwit!  

Part # 2602-743 Chain 86P (13 wide) $193.27

[Boonbocker1]

I'm pretty sure a quick drive belt for a polaris is more expensive than a drive belt as well

[ZR6000RR]

1 hour ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

better way... in corporate language is generally cheaper and sells parts for the manufacturer down the road. 

why are the Polaris mountain riders carrying spare belts for stock belt drive setups ?  why does TKI offer a kit to convert from QuickDrive2 to their traditional tensioner configuration? 

I've worked for oems most my life... and cost always wins out over quality regardless of brand.  It's a bean counters and lawyers world.

Personally, I hope they are perfect and trouble free... as Cat can't afford another 2012 in 2024

In the mountains, your life may depend on it. Buried rocks tend to break shit

[ZR6000RR]

Some dipshit will say a chain is cheaper, but if a chain let's go, it really does a number inside the case, so you will probably be replacing everything. Now what is cheaper again? Deep thoughts on this. What kills me on this is the Polaris crew is so fucking worried about it. Has Polaris sold sled 1 for 2024?