22/23 cross country thread

[mnstang]

20 hours ago, racinfarmer said:

You have better machines, better drivers, better wrenches, and Doo and Pol are throwing more money and resources into XC then they have in the past.

Doo is getting better race department support and their "factory" team is pretty much the old Christian Brothers sno-x wrenches.

Cat has a true factory team.  The support program isn't what it was even 5 years ago, but when you have new ownership, that is what happens.  

Polaris, you pretty much hitch your wagons to Bunkes or Hetteens, both of with offer great support (which are pretty much factory).  Their race director is a dickhead, but they have great support.  Reverings are a great family team and they do pretty much all their own wrenching.

I don't think Cat has really got "worse", but the other two have stepped up their game.

I'm sure the actual teams and their resources will greatly affect the machine more than anything else.

If the catalyst was ready to race and an improvement over what they got, I'm sure they'd be racing it.  I doubt it's a high priority to Cat not like the old days when winning some of these big races was everything to the company basically like winning a Superbowl.  Doesn't sell sleds like it maybe used to before the internet.  Now sleds are 15-20k and people just care about gauges and the sound their starter motor makes and nobody even pays attention to racing.  It's all about marketing and none of them talk about their racing success in marketing or advertising.

 

[Crnr2Crnr]

22 minutes ago, mnstang said:

I'm sure the actual teams and their resources will greatly affect the machine more than anything else.

If the catalyst was ready to race and an improvement over what they got, I'm sure they'd be racing it.  I doubt it's a high priority to Cat not like the old days when winning some of these big races was everything to the company basically like winning a Superbowl.  Doesn't sell sleds like it maybe used to before the internet.  Now sleds are 15-20k and people just care about gauges and the sound their starter motor makes and nobody even pays attention to racing.  It's all about marketing and none of them talk about their racing success in marketing or advertising.

 

Arctic Cat used to throw money hand over fist to win races and be the best in racing.  They would throw every spare nickel they had at winning XC, SX and local 600ft NH drag races.  Textron, by saving them changed that.  This is the reality.  Arctic Cat currently is not #1 at racing... or #2 in instances.  

Being sentimental... I love the old Arctic Cat but being realistic hope to see the new Arctic Cat survive and possibly thrive again.

Others do as well, but we all have our own perspective.

[Premium]

39 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

Arctic Cat used to throw money hand over fist to win races and be the best in racing.  They would throw every spare nickel they had at winning XC, SX and local 600ft NH drag races.  Textron, by saving them changed that.  This is the reality.  Arctic Cat currently is not #1 at racing... or #2 in instances.  

Being sentimental... I love the old Arctic Cat but being realistic hope to see the new Arctic Cat survive and possibly thrive again.

Others do as well, but we all have our own perspective.

Obviously, I struggle with this myself. I covet the Arctic Cat of old but I also understand that things just aren't the same anymore. Conversely, I don't accept Textron's handling of the brand and historically they drain and dissolve companies...make no mistake they saw blind loyalty (vs passion) as a cash cow but it clearly it isn't so simple.  Doug Braswell in an interview with ACinsider said it well: "Arctic Cat fans are the most passionate. John Deere fans are the most loyal. Both customers love their machines...."

Arctic Cat corporate made big mistakes but as far as Textron as a "savior"???...they have yet to convince anyone of that. Maybe the Catalyst will.

[mnstang]

43 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

Arctic Cat used to throw money hand over fist to win races and be the best in racing.  They would throw every spare nickel they had at winning XC, SX and local 600ft NH drag races.  Textron, by saving them changed that.  This is the reality.  Arctic Cat currently is not #1 at racing... or #2 in instances.  

Being sentimental... I love the old Arctic Cat but being realistic hope to see the new Arctic Cat survive and possibly thrive again.

Others do as well, but we all have our own perspective.

It's not just cat.  Polaris used to go toe to toe with Cat and they were competitive.  For the most part people just don't care about it anymore besides the actual racing community.  Snowmobiles in general are way less mainstream now than they were from 1970-2000.  Racing took the same hit.  The oems are running a business and they have to weigh the cost vs benefit.  If there's no return on investment then why would they do it?  They could dump a shitload into racing races nobody cares about, or dump money into something that will make them more money.

And they do still race, Zach is factory Cat.  Are the Browns also?  I don't know.  This is all way off topic anyway I was originally just calling out your dumb takes that looking at race results can determine what sled is better as delivered from the OEM.  That is just stupid.  

I'll keep saying it you are disrespecting teams and racers by chalking up all of their success to "Arctic Cat" or "Polaris" or "skidope".  So dumb when people just say cat won or whatever without even mentioning the racer.  

[Crnr2Crnr]

11 minutes ago, mnstang said:

It's not just cat.  Polaris used to go toe to toe with Cat and they were competitive.  For the most part people just don't care about it anymore besides the actual racing community.  Snowmobiles in general are way less mainstream now than they were from 1970-2000.  Racing took the same hit.  The oems are running a business and they have to weigh the cost vs benefit.  If there's no return on investment then why would they do it?  They could dump a shitload into racing races nobody cares about, or dump money into something that will make them more money.

And they do still race, Zach is factory Cat.  Are the Browns also?  I don't know.  This is all way off topic anyway I was originally just calling out your dumb takes that looking at race results can determine what sled is better as delivered from the OEM.  That is just stupid.  

I'll keep saying it you are disrespecting teams and racers by chalking up all of their success to "Arctic Cat" or "Polaris" or "skidope".  So dumb when people just say cat won or whatever without even mentioning the racer.  

BRP and Polaris have actually been quite profitable in the past four to five years and can afford to throw $ willy nilly at racing.  They have, the results have shown on the SX and XC courses.  They (Polaris moreso) have realized (imo) that product development for the consumer begins at the track and translates into sales, unlike the old adage of what what wins on Sunday sells on Monday.  Do I believe Honda sells a bunch of cars on Monday because Max Verstappen won an F1 race on Sunday in a Honda powered RedBull?  Nope.  Do I believe that Polaris realized the Baler sucked donkey nuts at XC racing even in the hands of AC10 and they couldn't develop it any into a better sled no matter what they did... plus ugly as fuck.

I know who all the Cat XC racers are, also they ones that race MIRA enduro racing that are part of the Catalyst engineering team.  If you want to call my take 'dumb' go ahead... most are looking forward to moving past the Procross, and I'm certain their racers are as well.  The competitions equipment has caught up, if you can't see it I can't help you see it.  

Don't confuse an opinion with disrespect, I respect every last team still racing Cat's.  I also respect every other racing team that's moved to other brands to stay competitive, to keep racing with hopes of winning, regardless of what they're riding that isn't a Cat.

$ talks

racers want to win

hopefully next year is a different story

 

[mnstang]

1 hour ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

Arctic Cat used to throw money hand over fist to win races and be the best in racing.  They would throw every spare nickel they had at winning XC, SX and local 600ft NH drag races.  Textron, by saving them changed that.  This is the reality.  Arctic Cat currently is not #1 at racing... or #2 in instances.  

Being sentimental... I love the old Arctic Cat but being realistic hope to see the new Arctic Cat survive and possibly thrive again.

Others do as well, but we all have our own perspective.

Also wtf are you talking about.  Since this is the XC race thread, what sleds did the reigning pro champions use to win?

Cat was also going bankrupt and the procross was a total disaster for the first few years.  Arctic Cat is way better today than they were the day before Textron bought them.  They were going bankrupt doing what they were doing.  You claim you like Cat but all you do is talk shit on them, which spreading negativity around hurts them.  I see you talking crap about them here, on FB, and on Arctic insider of all places.   You just talk shit and don't support them.  You talk all day how shitty they are and don't buy any sleds and probably very little parts you won't even spend an extra five bucks for Cat oil.  But you're the type of guy that will then claim you want them to succeed.  you know how a company succeeds, people support them you're the loudest critic but not even a player in the game.  With "friends" like that who needs enemies.  I think you've complained because a dealer closed, how much money did you spend with that dealer before closing?  How do you think any of this stuff exists?  Actual cat legends read ac insider articles what do you think they think when they read your comments.  You complain that they cut guys like Skime guess what he's happy as a clam he and all the other guys still come to the ac gatherings and haydays and whatever else.  If you don't like cat that is fine go cheer up Polaris why do you need to spread your negativity why don't you be happy that your Polaris or skidoo is so much better.  I like my Honda bike I don't sit around and talk bad about Suzuki or whatever brand I don't have because I don't give a fuck about other bikes I just am glad I like what I have.  If the other sleds are so much better you should just be happy that they're so great, go buy one and enjoy it.  You just like to spread your misery 

[Crnr2Crnr]

1 minute ago, mnstang said:

Also wtf are you talking about.  Since this is the XC race thread, what sleds did the reigning pro champions use to win?

Cat was also going bankrupt and the procross was a total disaster for the first few years.  Arctic Cat is way better today than they were the day before Textron bought them.  They were going bankrupt doing what they were doing.  You claim you like Cat but all you do is talk shit on them, which spreading negativity around hurts them.  I see you talking crap about them here, on FB, and on Arctic insider of all places.   You just talk shit and don't support them.  You talk all day how shitty they are and don't buy any sleds and probably very little parts you won't even spend an extra five bucks for Cat oil.  But you're the type of guy that will then claim you want them to succeed.  you know how a company succeeds, people support them you're the loudest critic but not even a player in the game.  With "friends" like that who needs enemies.  I think you've complained because a dealer closed, how much money did you spend with that dealer before closing?  How do you think any of this stuff exists?  Actual cat legends read ac insider articles what do you think they think when they read your comments.  You complain that they cut guys like Skime guess what he's happy as a clam he and all the other guys still come to the ac gatherings and haydays and whatever else.  If you don't like cat that is fine go cheer up Polaris why do you need to spread your negativity why don't you be happy that your Polaris or skidoo is so much better.  I like my Honda bike I don't sit around and talk bad about Suzuki or whatever brand I don't have because I don't give a fuck about other bikes I just am glad I like what I have.  If the other sleds are so much better you should just be happy that they're so great, go buy one and enjoy it.  You just like to spread your misery 

so we're right back to last year eh Tony, I stopped reading your rant after the second sentence.  

[Crnr2Crnr]

poLAriS suCkZ!!!!!!

[racinfarmer]

Hug it out, bitches.

[racinfarmer]

Here is the GoFundMe page for the young racer injured this weekend.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/medical-bills-pt-wheelchair-home-remodeling?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=p_cp share-sheet&fbclid=IwAR0BbwaZQCMUj-GtdPVF80s4x0X5WFu3_DjNF6dOXhLPLqyr7lLvV_1WpSE

[Crnr2Crnr]

3 minutes ago, racinfarmer said:

Hug it out, bitches.

nah

this is an annual thing with us... 

[Crnr2Crnr]

3 minutes ago, racinfarmer said:

Here is the GoFundMe page for the young racer injured this weekend.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/medical-bills-pt-wheelchair-home-remodeling?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=p_cp share-sheet&fbclid=IwAR0BbwaZQCMUj-GtdPVF80s4x0X5WFu3_DjNF6dOXhLPLqyr7lLvV_1WpSE

on it... 

[mnstang]

32 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

BRP and Polaris have actually been quite profitable in the past four to five years and can afford to throw $ willy nilly at racing.  They have, the results have shown on the SX and XC courses.  They (Polaris moreso) have realized (imo) that product development for the consumer begins at the track and translates into sales, unlike the old adage of what what wins on Sunday sells on Monday.  Do I believe Honda sells a bunch of cars on Monday because Max Verstappen won an F1 race on Sunday in a Honda powered RedBull?  Nope.  Do I believe that Polaris realized the Baler sucked donkey nuts at XC racing even in the hands of AC10 and they couldn't develop it any into a better sled no matter what they did... plus ugly as fuck.

I know who all the Cat XC racers are, also they ones that race MIRA enduro racing that are part of the Catalyst engineering team.  If you want to call my take 'dumb' go ahead... most are looking forward to moving past the Procross, and I'm certain their racers are as well.  The competitions equipment has caught up, if you can't see it I can't help you see it.  

Don't confuse an opinion with disrespect, I respect every last team still racing Cat's.  I also respect every other racing team that's moved to other brands to stay competitive, to keep racing with hopes of winning, regardless of what they're riding that isn't a Cat.

$ talks

racers want to win

hopefully next year is a different story

 

WTF are you even talking about.  When did I say Cat race sleds are vastly superior to anything?  You're now just making shit up.  Read what I have wrote again.  I never claimed anything about the machines as delivered by the manufacturer.  The last time there was really a real machine difference was probably the 1993 ZR.  This whole time all I've been saying is you are STUPID for attributing all this race success to an OEM chassis and then you say something so stupid as in the bold trying to insinuate that I am denying the other machines are competitive.  You're not getting it you'll never get it you're too stuck in your tribalism just regurgitating the same talking point I'm now just arguing with a retard.  Here I'll try again with you.. I've never said they haven't caught up because I've never said or thought they've needed to or been so far behind from a chassis perspective.  They're all good enough and close enough where it will come down to the racer and race team.  Then you say I'm denying other machines have caught up.  You're  beyond twisting words you're just making shit up and I don't appreciate it.

You are the reason nascar puts Ford or Chevy on the front of their cars.

Hopefully next year is a different story?  Good God. You're hopeless.  I give up.  Done.  Can't argue with a retard wow.

[Crnr2Crnr]

note to self... if I say it 'bad'

if someone else says it...  

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Crnr2Crnr

[Crnr2Crnr]

pretty certain I have a case of cabin fever.  need to go riding or something... 🥵

sorry 😐

[Crnr2Crnr]

 

 

[Crnr2Crnr]

that's just one vendor, plus Babbitts, dealercostparts, and what I used to buy locally before we they all went away... So yeah, big Cat hater here.  

[Not greg b]

38 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

that's just one vendor, plus Babbitts, dealercostparts, and what I used to buy locally before we they all went away... So yeah, big Cat hater here.  

I don’t see any amsoil on that list 

[Crnr2Crnr]

30 minutes ago, Not greg b said:

I don’t see any amsoil on that list 

I considered starting an 'what kind of oil' thread until I realized I have four gallons of Cat APV oil on the shelf.  Bought that from Amazon though.  

[Sled_Hed]

10 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

I considered starting an 'what kind of oil' thread until I realized I have four gallons of Cat APV oil on the shelf.  Bought that from Amazon though.  

Is that what you run in your SP 500's?

[Crnr2Crnr]

7 minutes ago, Sled_Hed said:

Is that what you run in your SP 500's?

the 500 and now the 440, yes. I can run the cheaper Cat oil but won't.

the other one has been on a Klotz diet since day one and I don't believe in switching oils mid stride.

[Sled_Hed]

30 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

the 500 and now the 440, yes. I can run the cheaper Cat oil but won't.

the other one has been on a Klotz diet since day one and I don't believe in switching oils mid stride.

Can't blame you, I've never had an issue with APV. 

On the bold I agree, I've bought a couple used sleds (Bearcat and Indy 340) that I wasn't sure what was ran in them. They get Amsoil interceptor due to local availability. 

[Not greg b]

44 minutes ago, Sled_Hed said:

Is that what you run in your SP 500's?

My sp500 had a apv oil sticker on the side of it from the factory. So he better be running anything other than apv oil in that 500 or he will be dragging his ass all the way home 

[Sled_Hed]

20 minutes ago, Not greg b said:

My sp500 had a apv oil sticker on the side of it from the factory. So he better be running anything other than apv oil in that 500 or he will be dragging his ass all the way home 

I always kinda chuckled about them having that sticker. We definitely don't need him dragging that much ass, that could lead to chafing. 

[Not greg b]

7 hours ago, Sled_Hed said:

I always kinda chuckled about them having that sticker. We definitely don't need him dragging that much ass, that could lead to chafing. 

That and bare streak in the the middle of the trail