Snocross 2023...

[Crnr2Crnr]

6 hours ago, fortune46x said:

As far as payouts from the series goes : https://snocross.com/national/payouts/

Racers make money from the OEM's contingency program - skidoo , polaris and cat all pay out based on performance , years ago I was told a pro lite final win was 9k (I'm sure this has changed)

Teams make money from sponsors , get parts budgets, and lets face it - teams like Hentges, Scheuring and others all use it as a business expense for their main source of income which isnt racing. I do however see oems budgets getting thinner and thinner as they redirect their marketing money to more viable markets that are not snowmobile related (polaris just put up 25k into a Youth sxs class for payouts with champ offroad).

The brand ambassador thing is detrimental to any racing - give a person 20% off a sled to make them your social media whore and bam why would you invest into any form of racing when you can go pennies on the dollar to a social media person that has 25k followers or otherwise. Red Bull is doing this exact thing with multiple people now vs having actual sponsored racers - they give them the right to have the helmet (redbull is litigious over their logo - the levalle sleds cannot be sold with it on them)  , free product and clothing and bam exposure happens at low cost.

As far as snocross dying , when I started with isoc in 2017 we would have 70-80 races a weekend , now its constantly over 100 races. The pro class has shrunk but that's due to sport lite, sport, and pro lite not having a proper advancement requirement and the oems are using those classes to bump championship numbers up for marketing. If you listen to episode 2 and 3 of the vignette postcase found here Levi and Robbie hit the nails on the head with what the sport needs to do to regain a full gate at the pro level. If you don't go to a race to see the classes that don't make it on the live stream and just watch the pro class I'd fully understand why anyone would think that. Don't get me wrong its definitely not what Wsa/Wpsa was for racer numbers but you also had 4 manufactures with oem factory teams not satellite teams that they have now.

Viewership is well into the 6 figures on race weekends since going to Flo and I know I have had a ton of people that never went to a race/watched it on tv that are dirt track and pro offroad truck guys now are tuning in so the cross promotion utilized with flo is working.

As Steve Scheuring said on social media - the sky isn't falling.

 

good perspectives from the mechanic of the year... 👍 

edit: Well, for those who blame the Mods departure on the demise of the sport, he's got another perspective. 

the Yamaha conversation are hilarious, at this point.  then the Hentges departure... maybe they need to do a follow up interview.

Robbie says much of the same... 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Crnr2Crnr

[Deephaven]

On 7/3/2023 at 10:29 PM, AK440 said:

I’m not sure how much clearer things can be to show it’s demise? Does Cat even have a presence in sno-x anymore?

Not really a good example.  Cat doesn't even have a presence in the snowmobile market anymore.  Textron is doing their best at ensuring that.

All the races I've been to have been packed full of spectators and plenty of races to give them something to watch.  Cat is dwindling for sure, but that has nothing to do with the health of SnoX.

[AK440]

3 hours ago, Deephaven said:

Not really a good example.  Cat doesn't even have a presence in the snowmobile market anymore.  Textron is doing their best at ensuring that.

All the races I've been to have been packed full of spectators and plenty of races to give them something to watch.  Cat is dwindling for sure, but that has nothing to do with the health of SnoX.

Here’s the problem, just because you have spectators attending races in your area doesn’t mean sno-x is popular nationwide. You know what’s popular in my town, fatbikes, they are everywhere. If I didn’t read cycling industry articles I’d think that fatbikes were still super popular. The reality is their popularity peaked in ‘15. Lots of bike OEM’s that offered fatbikes no longer do. Same thing with sno-x. Most of the country isn’t interested watching Doo and Poo race each other. 

[AK440]

11 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

 

good perspectives from the mechanic of the year... 👍 

edit: Well, for those who blame the Mods departure on the demise of the sport, he's got another perspective. 

the Yamaha conversation are hilarious, at this point.  then the Hentges departure... maybe they need to do a follow up interview.

Robbie says much of the same... 

 

 

 

Those payouts are absolutely pathetic! The local cross country races we have pay out way more than that. Sno-x is even more of a joke! 

[Deephaven]

Popular nationwide, rofl.  Perhaps you should contemplate the history of snox and the direction and not some obtuse absolute.  

[racinfarmer]

On 7/7/2023 at 7:43 AM, fortune46x said:

As far as payouts from the series goes : https://snocross.com/national/payouts/

Racers make money from the OEM's contingency program - skidoo , polaris and cat all pay out based on performance , years ago I was told a pro lite final win was 9k (I'm sure this has changed)

Teams make money from sponsors , get parts budgets, and lets face it - teams like Hentges, Scheuring and others all use it as a business expense for their main source of income which isnt racing. I do however see oems budgets getting thinner and thinner as they redirect their marketing money to more viable markets that are not snowmobile related (polaris just put up 25k into a Youth sxs class for payouts with champ offroad).

The brand ambassador thing is detrimental to any racing - give a person 20% off a sled to make them your social media whore and bam why would you invest into any form of racing when you can go pennies on the dollar to a social media person that has 25k followers or otherwise. Red Bull is doing this exact thing with multiple people now vs having actual sponsored racers - they give them the right to have the helmet (redbull is litigious over their logo - the levalle sleds cannot be sold with it on them)  , free product and clothing and bam exposure happens at low cost.

As far as snocross dying , when I started with isoc in 2017 we would have 70-80 races a weekend , now its constantly over 100 races. The pro class has shrunk but that's due to sport lite, sport, and pro lite not having a proper advancement requirement and the oems are using those classes to bump championship numbers up for marketing. If you listen to episode 2 and 3 of the vignette postcase found here Levi and Robbie hit the nails on the head with what the sport needs to do to regain a full gate at the pro level. If you don't go to a race to see the classes that don't make it on the live stream and just watch the pro class I'd fully understand why anyone would think that. Don't get me wrong its definitely not what Wsa/Wpsa was for racer numbers but you also had 4 manufactures with oem factory teams not satellite teams that they have now.

Viewership is well into the 6 figures on race weekends since going to Flo and I know I have had a ton of people that never went to a race/watched it on tv that are dirt track and pro offroad truck guys now are tuning in so the cross promotion utilized with flo is working.

As Steve Scheuring said on social media - the sky isn't falling.

Thanks for the insight.

Does the 9k to win Pro-Lite for each day or a overall weekend win?

Does that include factory contingencies?  I'm assuming not.

[AK440]

14 hours ago, Deephaven said:

Popular nationwide, rofl.  Perhaps you should contemplate the history of snox and the direction and not some obtuse absolute.  

Substitute snow belt for nationwide. 
 

 

[Crnr2Crnr]

On 7/7/2023 at 9:06 PM, AK440 said:

Those payouts are absolutely pathetic! The local cross country races we have pay out way more than that. Sno-x is even more of a joke! 

where are these big payouts?

in Alaska, or your home state of Minnesota?  

are you thrilled with the potential demise of another snowmobile racing discipline? 

you seem to be...

[AK440]

2 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

where are these big payouts?

in Alaska, or your home state of Minnesota?  

are you thrilled with the potential demise of another snowmobile racing discipline? 

you seem to be...

Iron Dog pays out way more. 
 

Sno-x sucks now. I enjoy watching it fade to obscurity.

[Crnr2Crnr]

6 hours ago, AK440 said:

Iron Dog pays out way more. 
 

Sno-x sucks now. I enjoy watching it fade to obscurity.

as much as I respect the iron dog racers, the history and tenacious nature of the race... it's obscure and gets no coverage whatsoever in the big picture by comparison.  how many snowmobilers know who Aklestad, Olestad, Morgan, Johnson or Palin are... compared to Ishoel, Kamm, Lavalle, Hibbert or Morgan?  

why does it 'suck'?  because they aren't racing back breaking ass draggers over speed bumps?  the sleds are better, the tracks are gnarlier and the live stream is better... just as a few points of comparison.

 

 

 

[Premium]

9 hours ago, AK440 said:

Iron Dog pays out way more. 
 

Sno-x sucks now. I enjoy watching it fade to obscurity.

It's literally the only form of sled racing you can actually watch reliably and regularly.

Is seeing the race results posted on FB hours later more exciting for you?

Something tells me if Cat were dominating snoX like Doo is (or Cat even present at all), your attitude about the sport wouldn't be so callous.

[AK440]

9 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

as much as I respect the iron dog racers, the history and tenacious nature of the race... it's obscure and gets no coverage whatsoever in the big picture by comparison.  how many snowmobilers know who Aklestad, Olestad, Morgan, Johnson or Palin are... compared to Ishoel, Kamm, Lavalle, Hibbert or Morgan?  

why does it 'suck'?  because they aren't racing back breaking ass draggers over speed bumps?  the sleds are better, the tracks are gnarlier and the live stream is better... just as a few points of comparison.

 

 

 

You are the only person I’m aware of that actually pays money to watch races that should be free on TV or streaming. That right there is what is wrong with sno-x. No one gives a shit about it! It’s haydays from 20 years ago are long gone. If sno-x was viable it’d still be on TV, still be on the X-games, or it’d be hosted by some sponsor hungry for all the viewers to advertise to. But it’s none of those things. 
 

 

[Deephaven]

2 minutes ago, AK440 said:

If sno-x was viable it’d still be on TV

Right, cable tv, sat and streaming services are not viable.  Derrrr.

[Crnr2Crnr]

24 minutes ago, AK440 said:

You are the only person I’m aware of that actually pays money to watch races that should be free on TV or streaming. That right there is what is wrong with sno-x. No one gives a shit about it! It’s haydays from 20 years ago are long gone. If sno-x was viable it’d still be on TV, still be on the X-games, or it’d be hosted by some sponsor hungry for all the viewers to advertise to. But it’s none of those things. 
 

 

so you're not only living in the past, you're also frugal

duly noted

[mnstang]

I couldn't name one current sno x racer and don't know anyone who could.  Most guys I know probably have forgot it even exists.  Off radar completely.  That's just my reality but I think the vast majority of people are in that boat also.  It's no longer important to sledders like it used to be when there were big names.  Now there's foreigners that can barely speak English.  I also don't watch the freestyle guys at haydays.  Or grass drags.  All goes into the same no shits given category.  But for the few people into it, have fun with it.  I actually would watch the mud bog races at haydays before any of the sled stuff and I'm not a quad guy.  Swap meets are where it's at.

[AK440]

5 hours ago, Deephaven said:

Right, cable tv, sat and streaming services are not viable.  Derrrr.

This winter I’d occasionally watch a sno-x race on YouTube for free that was weeks late. Awesome. Even though they could have uploaded it at zero cost to them the don’t. 
 

I ended up watching more sno-x races on YouTube from the late 90’s and early 00’s than I watched modern ones. The old tracks were way better than the small ovals they race today. 

[Deephaven]

So the problem is you are cheap or broke and pissed, not that you don't like snox.  Glad we are all clear now.

[AK440]

3 hours ago, Deephaven said:

So the problem is you are cheap or broke and pissed, not that you don't like snox.  Glad we are all clear now.

Shouldn’t have to pay to watch something that used to be free and is now worse. But you do you. 

[Crnr2Crnr]

3 hours ago, AK440 said:

Shouldn’t have to pay to watch something that used to be free and is now worse. But you do you. 

do you have cable tv?  are there commercials during the shows you watch?  is it hard to decide what to watch because all the shows on all the networks are just so darn good?  do you have any streaming services like Netflix, Hulu or Disney?  do you still go to the adult video store or prefer to get your strong pornography free off the internet?  

free... how very liberal 

 

[Deephaven]

In the past it had to be free to get viewers, now they pay.  Must be going downhill.  Derr....

[EvilBird]

The Alaskan sure seems out of touch with reality on pretty much everything still. Big surprise. 

iRoN dAwG, sNoBiKeS  , I nEeD fReE sNoX cUs iT sUcKs 

 

[fortune46x]

On 7/8/2023 at 11:37 AM, racinfarmer said:

Thanks for the insight.

Does the 9k to win Pro-Lite for each day or a overall weekend win?

Does that include factory contingencies?  I'm assuming not.

That was the factory contingency at the time , I'm sure now its less.

Go to a paid streeming platform and the viewer numbers went up...  not to mention CBS sports still airs the races after the fact. RMSHCA is on flo , as is the ovals races , along with the god damn soo I500

If snocross was only regionally popular - I dont know how they sell out deadwood every year along with the seating at new york so its standing room only on the hill..

Starting a 2024 thread...