Snocross 2023...

[fortune46x]

On 4/1/2023 at 7:02 PM, hayward said:

why the hell didn't the flagger step out into the course a bit to get everyone's attention?  I know, shit happens quick, but...

damn that could'a sucked worse.

It was worst case - he stepped out after Lieders was committed to the jump. Just like the incidents in the downhill , hard to control jumping on yellow when gravity is working against you and you're already jumping from the top down in rhythm.  

On 4/1/2023 at 8:37 PM, Crnr2Crnr said:

Jordan speared Pake... that was shitty

Docked positions and Jordan didn't even argue what he did. 

11 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

Sno cross is dying. Boring as hell! 

Record attendance at almost every event but Fargo, highest viewership on live stream since switching to flo sports (cross promotion seems to be working), More semis in the pits since I started working for the series 7 years ago, and more pro teams hosting satellite riders in the pits than before.. Note : we used to have 80-90 races per day when I started with the exception of Duluth when the canadians would come down , now we rarely have less that 100 races in a day. 

Its dying alright.. 

[J. Jackson]

If Cat was competitive he would say it was the best thing since free porn on the net.

[Crnr2Crnr]

11 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

Sno cross is dying. Boring as hell! 

based on numbers, participation and viewership... I'd say cross country is the one dying by a far bigger margin.  I actually find that rather sad to be honest but the numbers don't lie Einstein.

why do you think Cat and BRP have been offering their race ready XC models to the general public the past few years?  Here's a hint... it's because they have to produce and sell enough of them for the machines to be legally competitive per ISR rules... and they can't sell enough to actual XC racers for them to be legal.

Fwiw, I'm happy Cat is offering the new RXC to the consumers and hopefully dumping that entire racer replica horse shit.  An 860 RXC might be a big seller... like the XCR 850 

@fortune46x can correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Crnr2Crnr

[ZR6000RR]

9 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

based on numbers, participation and viewership... I'd say cross country is the one dying by a far bigger margin.  I actually find that rather sad to be honest but the numbers don't lie Einstein.

why do you think Cat and BRP have been offering their race ready XC models to the general public the past few years?  Here's a hint... it's because they have to produce and sell enough of them for the machines to be legally competitive per ISR rules... and they can't sell enough to actual XC racers for them to be legal.

Fwiw, I'm happy Cat is offering the new RXC to the consumers and hopefully dumping that entire racer replica horse shit.  An 860 RXC might be a big seller... like the XCR 850 

@fortune46x can correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. 

 

 

 

We had RECORD attendance this year at snodeo this year. Have not been to a sno cross in 15 years. My dying has to do with racer numbers. 

[Crnr2Crnr]

16 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

 

We had RECORD attendance this year at snodeo this year. Have not been to a sno cross in 15 years. My dying has to do with racer numbers. 

great... that's one event.  obviously you don't know much if anything about SX currently so before spouting off your ill informed opinions maybe try to learn some facts first.  💡

https://corpowersports.com/assets/pdf_files/2023 points 32123v2.pdf

https://snocross.com/national/results/

 

[ZR6000RR]

4 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

great... that's one event.  obviously you don't know much if anything about SX currently so before spouting off your ill informed opinions maybe try to learn some facts first.  💡

https://corpowersports.com/assets/pdf_files/2023 points 32123v2.pdf

https://snocross.com/national/results/

 

Just shut up already! Cross Country is more like real world riding. 

Edited April 3, 2023 by ZR6000RR

[Crnr2Crnr]

18 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

Cross Country is more like real world riding. 

I would fully agree with that statement. 

You ever get sick of being corrected by people around here?  

  

 

 

 

[ZR6000RR]

11 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

I would fully agree with that statement. 

You ever get sick of being corrected by people around here?  

  

 

 

 

Don't care! 

[fortune46x]

1 hour ago, ZR6000RR said:

 

We had RECORD attendance this year at snodeo this year. Have not been to a sno cross in 15 years. My dying has to do with racer numbers. 

in 2022/23 - 3 heats of pro lite, sport lite, 2 heats of pro women , 2 heats of sport and had to send riders packing .. not to mention the junior, transition, 200 classes that were huge this year. I would say its doing just fine. 
 

XC has to build 150 sleds a year. To be honest I think XC will grow in coming years with Skidoo coming to offer support now to racers as well. It has a stronger support section IMO than snocross. 

My honest opinion , with the weather patterns and the way the seasons have gone (other than this season which is insane for northern, mn  and wisconsin and michigan) the Mountain competition segment will continue to grow while the flat lands will slow down unless man made snow is available. 

[ZR6000RR]

43 minutes ago, fortune46x said:

in 2022/23 - 3 heats of pro lite, sport lite, 2 heats of pro women , 2 heats of sport and had to send riders packing .. not to mention the junior, transition, 200 classes that were huge this year. I would say its doing just fine. 
 

XC has to build 150 sleds a year. To be honest I think XC will grow in coming years with Skidoo coming to offer support now to racers as well. It has a stronger support section IMO than snocross. 

My honest opinion , with the weather patterns and the way the seasons have gone (other than this season which is insane for northern, mn  and wisconsin and michigan) the Mountain competition segment will continue to grow while the flat lands will slow down unless man made snow is available. 

 

Where I ride, we always have good, ridable snow well into March. Expecting another 12-24" this week. This is the White Earth Reservation. Pinehurst area.

[fortune46x]

5 minutes ago, ZR6000RR said:

 

Where I ride, we always have good, ridable snow well into March. Expecting another 12-24" this week. This is the White Earth Reservation. Pinehurst area.

There is a substantial difference of where you ride vs where COR can have a race at. I know Todd and Andrea from COR have worked their asses off to have races in areas that get snow but sometimes its just not possible. State parks, Native reservations etc are not easy to get permits to have compeitions at and sometimes have substantial fees associated with it. 

Ski hills are a possibility for both XC and SX in the future the difficulty there lies within availability - that's why we were in Iowa in April. 

[ZR6000RR]

1 minute ago, fortune46x said:

There is a substantial difference of where you ride vs where COR can have a race at. I know Todd and Andrea from COR have worked their asses off to have races in areas that get snow but sometimes its just not possible. State parks, Native reservations etc are not easy to get permits to have compeitions at and sometimes have substantial fees associated with it. 

Ski hills are a possibility for both XC and SX in the future the difficulty there lies within availability - that's why we were in Iowa in April. 

I am talking about riding in general. Todd wanted our club to add a race, but we just do not have the manpower to pull it off. 

[krom]

2 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

You ever get sick of being corrected by people around here?  

  

 

 

 

It's not just here, he loves showing and telling anyone he can find, how much of a lying moron he is.

[ZR6000RR]

27 minutes ago, krom said:

It's not just here, he loves showing and telling anyone he can find, how much of a lying moron he is.

Only because it bothers you kROMMER.

[Deephaven]

5 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

 

Where I ride, we always have good, ridable snow well into March. Expecting another 12-24" this week. This is the White Earth Reservation. Pinehurst area.

Lol.  Could pick a smaller area to call where you ride.  Used to drink on those trails in high school.  Bet I know a shit load of locals that all think you are a joke.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Deephaven

[racinfarmer]

9 hours ago, fortune46x said:

It was worst case - he stepped out after Lieders was committed to the jump. Just like the incidents in the downhill , hard to control jumping on yellow when gravity is working against you and you're already jumping from the top down in rhythm.  

Docked positions and Jordan didn't even argue what he did. 

Record attendance at almost every event but Fargo, highest viewership on live stream since switching to flo sports (cross promotion seems to be working), More semis in the pits since I started working for the series 7 years ago, and more pro teams hosting satellite riders in the pits than before.. Note : we used to have 80-90 races per day when I started with the exception of Duluth when the canadians would come down , now we rarely have less that 100 races in a day. 

Its dying alright.. 

IMO, having a place to race at weekly, ERX, helps get and keep people interested.

8 hours ago, ZR6000RR said:

 

We had RECORD attendance this year at snodeo this year. Have not been to a sno cross in 15 years. My dying has to do with racer numbers. 

Pay attention to the Jr. and "budget" classes in COR.  The numbers are not there to keep growing in 3-5-10 years.

7 hours ago, fortune46x said:

in 2022/23 - 3 heats of pro lite, sport lite, 2 heats of pro women , 2 heats of sport and had to send riders packing .. not to mention the junior, transition, 200 classes that were huge this year. I would say its doing just fine. 
 

XC has to build 150 sleds a year. To be honest I think XC will grow in coming years with Skidoo coming to offer support now to racers as well. It has a stronger support section IMO than snocross. 

My honest opinion , with the weather patterns and the way the seasons have gone (other than this season which is insane for northern, mn  and wisconsin and michigan) the Mountain competition segment will continue to grow while the flat lands will slow down unless man made snow is available. 

Polaris and Doo do not need to worry about selling 150+ sleds to meet stock class numbers.  Cat is the only one that needs to do that.

When one looks beyond COR (and the old USXC), look at what they are racing other placed that do XC racing.  It isn't Cat.

I'm not sure how well Cat is represented in the Northeast (NEXC and AXC), but when you look in Alaska, northern Canada, EE in Quebec, etc.  It is tons of Doo and Polaris sleds with the occasional Cat.

[Palu49]

1 hour ago, racinfarmer said:

IMO, having a place to race at weekly, ERX, helps get and keep people interested.

Pay attention to the Jr. and "budget" classes in COR.  The numbers are not there to keep growing in 3-5-10 years.

Polaris and Doo do not need to worry about selling 150+ sleds to meet stock class numbers.  Cat is the only one that needs to do that.

When one looks beyond COR (and the old USXC), look at what they are racing other placed that do XC racing.  It isn't Cat.

I'm not sure how well Cat is represented in the Northeast (NEXC and AXC), but when you look in Alaska, northern Canada, EE in Quebec, etc.  It is tons of Doo and Polaris sleds with the occasional Cat.

A lot of cats and polaris at the AXC races this year. I think there was 2 ski Doos at one of the races out of the trail class. I know there’s a few other guys racing Doo in NEXC but definitely still cat and poo dominated.

[sw-50c]

when eshoel had to kick ass ,he kicked ass.         

 

hopefully next year he starts the season off healthy.         

 

pro-lite will be interesting with out j lebel.

[hayward]

3 hours ago, Palu49 said:

A lot of cats and polaris at the AXC races this year. I think there was 2 ski Doos at one of the races out of the trail class. I know there’s a few other guys racing Doo in NEXC but definitely still cat and poo dominated.

Cameron's trailer one of those by chance?

[Crnr2Crnr]

13 hours ago, racinfarmer said:

IMO, having a place to race at weekly, ERX, helps get and keep people interested.

Pay attention to the Jr. and "budget" classes in COR.  The numbers are not there to keep growing in 3-5-10 years.

Polaris and Doo do not need to worry about selling 150+ sleds to meet stock class numbers.  Cat is the only one that needs to do that.

When one looks beyond COR (and the old USXC), look at what they are racing other placed that do XC racing.  It isn't Cat.

I'm not sure how well Cat is represented in the Northeast (NEXC and AXC), but when you look in Alaska, northern Canada, EE in Quebec, etc.  It is tons of Doo and Polaris sleds with the occasional Cat.

true... having easy access to a practice track of some nature seems to be a big key to success.

looking at the COR #'s yesterday I noticed a LOT of people in the Sport Stock class (48 participants) only did one, or maybe two events.  but the pattern showed up in other classes as well.  youth and parent participation is huge to grow any sport and this isn't a cheap sport by any means.  have seen a sport I was heavily involved in dwindle dramatically because it's not a 'ball sport' and requires travel and dedication from parents and their kids.

maybe the new Cat will revive an interest in racing Cat's... but a lot of racing imo hinges on factory support and IDK where Textron is on supporting racing at this point. 

 

 

 

final SX points tally...

Pro

	Rider	Hometown	Sled	Points
1	Elias Ishoel	Oppdal, 16	Ski-Doo	577
2	Emil Harr	Sorsele, AB	Polaris	534
3	Kody Kamm	Kansasville, WI	Polaris	521
4	Hunter Patenaude	Hartland, VT	Ski-Doo	461
5	Francis Pelletier	ST Felicien, QC	Ski-Doo	446
6	Adam Peterson	Medford, WI	Polaris	437
7	Daniel Benham	Deer River, MN	Arctic Cat	402
8	Logan Christian	Fertile, MN	Ski-Doo	392
9	Petter Narsa	Alvsbyn, BD	Ski-Doo	318
10	Aki Pihlaja	Rovaniemi, 10	Ski-Doo	285
11	Cole Cottew	Zimmerman, MN	Polaris	220
12	Travis Kern	Aitkin, MN	Polaris	217
13	Gustav Sahlsten	Umeå, AC	Ski-Doo	98
14	John Malmstrom	Kalix, AB	Polaris	75
15	Oskar Norum	Bjurholm, AB	Polaris	45
16	Jordan Lebel	Chicoutimi, QC	Ski-Doo	25
17	Robert Lunden	TYDAL, 01	Ski-Doo	10

 

Pro-Lite

	Rider	Hometown	Sled	Points
1	Jordan Lebel	Chicoutimi, QC	Ski-Doo	610
2	Ryley Bester	Prior Lake, MN	Polaris	598
3	Marcus Ogemar	Ostersund, Z	Ski-Doo	531
4	Evan Daudt	Longville, MN	Polaris	497
5	Andy Pake	Felton, MN	Ski-Doo	480
6	Anson Scheele	North Branch, MN	Arctic Cat	469
7	Evan Christian	Finley, ND	Polaris	440
8	Topi Posti	Rovaniemi, 10	Ski-Doo	431
9	Baily Forst	Thief River Falls, MN	Polaris	415
10	Emeric Legendre	Sainte-Julie, QC	Ski-Doo	377
11	Eric Downs	Jordan, MN	Polaris	360
12	Gustav Salomonsson	funasdalen, Z	Ski-Doo	311
13	Nickolas Lorenz	Kenosha, WI	Polaris	300
14	Trent Wittwer	bemidji, MN	Arctic Cat	261
15	Tyler Oomen	Hart, MI	Arctic Cat	236
16	Jesse Kirchmeyer	Arcade, NY	Polaris	218
17	Dylan Roes	Lowville, NY	Ski-Doo	210
18	Oskar Englund	Sundsvall, AB	Arctic Cat	191
19	Kenny Mandryk	Neebing, ON	Ski-Doo	159
20	Cale Callan	Phelpston, ON	Ski-Doo	148
21	Mitchell Gross	Princeton, MN	Arctic Cat	113
22	Filip Harr	Elk river, MN	Polaris	101
23	Andy Lieders	Wausau, WI	Polaris	97
24	Troy Horbaty	TYNDALL, MB	Other	90
25	Jeremy Beaulieu	Saint-Denis sur Richelieu, QC	Ski-Doo	82
26	Adam Ashline	Hartland, VT	Ski-Doo	72
27	Drew Freeland	Corcoran, MN	Ski-Doo	65
28	Crayden Dillon	Zephyr, ON	Ski-Doo	63
29	Brandon Lind	Antioch, IL	Arctic Cat	57
30	Joonas Keskiaho	Rovaniemi, 10	Ski-Doo	43
31	Devin Denman	Beaver dam, WI	Arctic Cat	37
32	Albin Lundqvist	Arvidsjaur, BD	Ski-Doo	33
33	Corin Todd	Otego, NY	Polaris	29
34	Emil Mikalsen	Talvik, 20	Ski-Doo	25
35	Ingebrigt Hoelsaeter	Oppdal, 16	Ski-Doo	21
36	Martin Johansson	Lima, W	Ski-Doo	18
37	Anton Lindstrom	Alvsbyn, BD	Ski-Doo	16
38	Pontus Lundstrom	Skelleftea, AC	Ski-Doo	16
39	Blake Taylor	Orangeville, ON	Ski-Doo	14
40	Eli Epling	Swanville, MN	Ski-Doo	7
41	Kyle Kunstman	Delavan, WI	Ski-Doo	6

Edited April 4, 2023 by Crnr2Crnr

[Not greg b]

1 hour ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

true... having easy access to a practice track of some nature seems to be a big key to success.

looking at the COR #'s yesterday I noticed a LOT of people in the Sport Stock class (48 participants) only did one, or maybe two events.  but the pattern showed up in other classes as well.  youth and parent participation is huge to grow any sport and this isn't a cheap sport by any means.  have seen a sport I was heavily involved in dwindle dramatically because it's not a 'ball sport' and requires travel and dedication from parents and their kids.

maybe the new Cat will revive an interest in racing Cat's... but a lot of racing imo hinges on factory support and IDK where Textron is on supporting racing at this point. 

 

 

 

final SX points tally...

Pro

	Rider	Hometown	Sled	Points
1	Elias Ishoel	Oppdal, 16	Ski-Doo	577
2	Emil Harr	Sorsele, AB	Polaris	534
3	Kody Kamm	Kansasville, WI	Polaris	521
4	Hunter Patenaude	Hartland, VT	Ski-Doo	461
5	Francis Pelletier	ST Felicien, QC	Ski-Doo	446
6	Adam Peterson	Medford, WI	Polaris	437
7	Daniel Benham	Deer River, MN	Arctic Cat	402
8	Logan Christian	Fertile, MN	Ski-Doo	392
9	Petter Narsa	Alvsbyn, BD	Ski-Doo	318
10	Aki Pihlaja	Rovaniemi, 10	Ski-Doo	285
11	Cole Cottew	Zimmerman, MN	Polaris	220
12	Travis Kern	Aitkin, MN	Polaris	217
13	Gustav Sahlsten	Umeå, AC	Ski-Doo	98
14	John Malmstrom	Kalix, AB	Polaris	75
15	Oskar Norum	Bjurholm, AB	Polaris	45
16	Jordan Lebel	Chicoutimi, QC	Ski-Doo	25
17	Robert Lunden	TYDAL, 01	Ski-Doo	10

 

Pro-Lite

	Rider	Hometown	Sled	Points
1	Jordan Lebel	Chicoutimi, QC	Ski-Doo	610
2	Ryley Bester	Prior Lake, MN	Polaris	598
3	Marcus Ogemar	Ostersund, Z	Ski-Doo	531
4	Evan Daudt	Longville, MN	Polaris	497
5	Andy Pake	Felton, MN	Ski-Doo	480
6	Anson Scheele	North Branch, MN	Arctic Cat	469
7	Evan Christian	Finley, ND	Polaris	440
8	Topi Posti	Rovaniemi, 10	Ski-Doo	431
9	Baily Forst	Thief River Falls, MN	Polaris	415
10	Emeric Legendre	Sainte-Julie, QC	Ski-Doo	377
11	Eric Downs	Jordan, MN	Polaris	360
12	Gustav Salomonsson	funasdalen, Z	Ski-Doo	311
13	Nickolas Lorenz	Kenosha, WI	Polaris	300
14	Trent Wittwer	bemidji, MN	Arctic Cat	261
15	Tyler Oomen	Hart, MI	Arctic Cat	236
16	Jesse Kirchmeyer	Arcade, NY	Polaris	218
17	Dylan Roes	Lowville, NY	Ski-Doo	210
18	Oskar Englund	Sundsvall, AB	Arctic Cat	191
19	Kenny Mandryk	Neebing, ON	Ski-Doo	159
20	Cale Callan	Phelpston, ON	Ski-Doo	148
21	Mitchell Gross	Princeton, MN	Arctic Cat	113
22	Filip Harr	Elk river, MN	Polaris	101
23	Andy Lieders	Wausau, WI	Polaris	97
24	Troy Horbaty	TYNDALL, MB	Other	90
25	Jeremy Beaulieu	Saint-Denis sur Richelieu, QC	Ski-Doo	82
26	Adam Ashline	Hartland, VT	Ski-Doo	72
27	Drew Freeland	Corcoran, MN	Ski-Doo	65
28	Crayden Dillon	Zephyr, ON	Ski-Doo	63
29	Brandon Lind	Antioch, IL	Arctic Cat	57
30	Joonas Keskiaho	Rovaniemi, 10	Ski-Doo	43
31	Devin Denman	Beaver dam, WI	Arctic Cat	37
32	Albin Lundqvist	Arvidsjaur, BD	Ski-Doo	33
33	Corin Todd	Otego, NY	Polaris	29
34	Emil Mikalsen	Talvik, 20	Ski-Doo	25
35	Ingebrigt Hoelsaeter	Oppdal, 16	Ski-Doo	21
36	Martin Johansson	Lima, W	Ski-Doo	18
37	Anton Lindstrom	Alvsbyn, BD	Ski-Doo	16
38	Pontus Lundstrom	Skelleftea, AC	Ski-Doo	16
39	Blake Taylor	Orangeville, ON	Ski-Doo	14
40	Eli Epling	Swanville, MN	Ski-Doo	7
41	Kyle Kunstman	Delavan, WI	Ski-Doo	6

I doubt Textron will ever spend a bunch of money to support racing. 

[Premium]

Well Doo is clearly in it to win it...

[Palu49]

18 hours ago, hayward said:

Cameron's trailer one of those by chance?

Matt?

[racinfarmer]

10 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

true... having easy access to a practice track of some nature seems to be a big key to success.

looking at the COR #'s yesterday I noticed a LOT of people in the Sport Stock class (48 participants) only did one, or maybe two events.  but the pattern showed up in other classes as well.  youth and parent participation is huge to grow any sport and this isn't a cheap sport by any means.  have seen a sport I was heavily involved in dwindle dramatically because it's not a 'ball sport' and requires travel and dedication from parents and their kids.

maybe the new Cat will revive an interest in racing Cat's... but a lot of racing imo hinges on factory support and IDK where Textron is on supporting racing at this point. 

I think a big part of the issue right now is how do you get racers and families not only involved in the sport, but how to keep them staying involved?

I know a lot of people, myself being one of them, who one year just decide to hang it up and go back to riding in general.  I don't see myself going back, at least not full time or even half time.

Factory support in the form of discounted sleds and discounted PG&A is another big one.  I'm not sure what everyone's gig is anymore, but Cat used to be the best all around.  I doubt that is the case anymore.  Judging by the number of sleds and what I've heard from some friends, I'd say Polaris is the best brand to be on right now, from a support perspective.  

8 hours ago, Not greg b said:

I doubt Textron will ever spend a bunch of money to support racing. 

I'm going to apply, but I know the discount won't be what it once was, if I even get one.  Haven't even seen a race app out anywhere.

[hayward]

1 hour ago, Palu49 said:

Matt?

Yep.