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Is The ProCross Chassis Prone to Overheat?


jdels

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2 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

OTB, that's a damn good ?   @Tommcat

Looking at the fiche for 2021 the TCat has a different exchanger in the front of the tunnel and the rear than that of the 8000 RR, which is the same as the 6000 LTD.  All 137's

    

Might have a different power plant.

9 minutes ago, Tommcat said:

magic

Or this.

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On 1/8/2022 at 9:19 AM, Crnr2Crnr said:

OTB, that's a damn good ?   @Tommcat

Looking at the fiche for 2021 the TCat has a different exchanger in the front of the tunnel and the rear than that of the 8000 RR, which is the same as the 6000 LTD.  All 137's

    

engine mounts to bulkhead and cooler

+

engine mounts, and coolant hose connections are in different locations on the 4 strokes than they are on the 2 strokes

=

different bulkhead heat exchangers

 

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4 minutes ago, krom said:

engine mounts to bulkhead and cooler

+

engine mounts, and coolant hose connections are in different locations on the 4 strokes than they are on the 2 strokes

=

different bulkhead heat exchangers

 

Was hoping you'd chime in at some point @krom.  Any words of wisdom on the cooling deficiencies? 

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Nothing that hasn't been gone over on here. 

Some run hotter than others. 
I've never needed or run scratchers.  My sleds are always studded, and they still do it once and a while when I think they shouldn't, but dragging a foot, spinning the track, or dipping off the side always cools them right off.

I've mentioned it to tech and Halverson, we'll see if they made changes on the next chassis

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On 1/9/2022 at 5:36 PM, krom said:

Nothing that hasn't been gone over on here. 

Some run hotter than others. 
I've never needed or run scratchers.  My sleds are always studded, and they still do it once and a while when I think they shouldn't, but dragging a foot, spinning the track, or dipping off the side always cools them right off.

I've mentioned it to tech and Halverson, we'll see if they made changes on the next chassis

What do you consider "hot" for a 6000 ctec?  

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So, scratchers installed.  Not entirely thrilled about it but they do work well.  Did 212 miles yesterday with no overheating, even with a couple long road runs with little snow on them.  My god they are annoying though.  Shit hitting you in the back and head, running boards covered in snow/ice buildup and wetter bibs than ever before.  Been a Cat guy my whole riding life, 30 plus years.  Dealt with a lot of junk engineering, poor fit and finish and build quality.  This one takes the cake.  Still a little pissy about it, I can't see keeping this machine past this year.  Problem is WTF other chassis can you get from CAT! Rant over, ride on!

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40 minutes ago, jdels said:

So, scratchers installed.  Not entirely thrilled about it but they do work well.  Did 212 miles yesterday with no overheating, even with a couple long road runs with little snow on them.  My god they are annoying though.  Shit hitting you in the back and head, running boards covered in snow/ice buildup and wetter bibs than ever before.  Been a Cat guy my whole riding life, 30 plus years.  Dealt with a lot of junk engineering, poor fit and finish and build quality.  This one takes the cake.  Still a little pissy about it, I can't see keeping this machine past this year.  Problem is WTF other chassis can you get from CAT! Rant over, ride on!

My 20 Polaris runs a consistent 10-15 degrees cooler than my cat does. I never had cooling issues with the cat until I went to the ctech 800 and 137 inch track. My past ones were all 129

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21 minutes ago, Not greg b said:

My 20 Polaris runs a consistent 10-15 degrees cooler than my cat does. I never had cooling issues with the cat until I went to the ctech 800 and 137 inch track. My past ones were all 129

A 129 option would be nice.  Makes little sense they got rid of it.  In over 10000 miles on the F7 I seen the temp light only a handful of times.  It's a piss poor design, these things should be engineered for worst case from a cooling perspective.  If you can't run a trail on a 20 degree day with 6-8 inches of groomed snow on it there is a significant design issue.  I'm glad the scratchers band aided the problem, I really am, but FFS you can't tell me this wasn't an issue in development.

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Interesting development today.  I had this happen only one other time, and was able to take a picture of it this time.  Temps steadily rose, even thought trail snow was loose and scratchers were down.  Stopped to check my heat exchanger, and it was covered in ice - no snow getting to it.  Knocked all the ice off and within a couple of minutes on trail temps dropped back down to about 100.

 

69576D27-6B18-4FB9-B85F-284244E7BA92.thumb.jpeg.ab213f790e78b37526faafec72a880e8.jpeg

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On 1/15/2022 at 5:21 PM, p51mstg said:

Interesting development today.  I had this happen only one other time, and was able to take a picture of it this time.  Temps steadily rose, even thought trail snow was loose and scratchers were down.  Stopped to check my heat exchanger, and it was covered in ice - no snow getting to it.  Knocked all the ice off and within a couple of minutes on trail temps dropped back down to about 100.

 

69576D27-6B18-4FB9-B85F-284244E7BA92.thumb.jpeg.ab213f790e78b37526faafec72a880e8.jpeg

That happens more often during the best of conditions.  Smooth trail, light snow dust, and colder temps will make it keep building up as you ride.  I can even see that you didn't have much skid travel with the track grooves in the buildup.

Glass smooth and setup trails will not cool these things if they are on the edge. It might seem ironic, but look for the rough stuff and pound the piss out of the thing.  Low snow with that riding will still cool better.  I've been on glass smooth stuff watching temps rise just waiting for the next club's trail grooming to suck.  It may seem counter intuitive, but I like to pick up the pace when I hit the rough stuff.  It's my way of dropping more snow and ice for the next groom. ;)

I keep hearing people say put on scratchers to fix the problem.  The picture is a great example of how that answer works in the real world.  I hate scratchers and it pisses me off that we should ever have them on a trail sled riding in good conditions.  I've tried quite a few variations of scratchers and still have not found anything that doesn't drive me crazy with high speed riding.  They chatter and vibrate, wear out in a heartbeat, and fling junk into the sled.  It used to drive me nuts when they accidentally dropped and I could feel the destruction began.  Run scratchers with high speeds all day and get out your shopping list for parts.  I've started using heavy wire to tie them off unless needed.  (The gazillion different hanger options don't work in the real world.) 

People want to blame lug height for cooling issues.  It is a factor, but ultimately not the final reason.  I run multiple sleds with the exact same track.  I have run with taller lugs in the same skid.   I've swapped tracks on sleds with bad cooling to see if it made the difference.  Some of these sleds just run cooler and some like to run hot.

 

 

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On 1/15/2022 at 5:21 PM, p51mstg said:

Interesting development today.  I had this happen only one other time, and was able to take a picture of it this time.  Temps steadily rose, even thought trail snow was loose and scratchers were down.  Stopped to check my heat exchanger, and it was covered in ice - no snow getting to it.  Knocked all the ice off and within a couple of minutes on trail temps dropped back down to about 100.

 

69576D27-6B18-4FB9-B85F-284244E7BA92.thumb.jpeg.ab213f790e78b37526faafec72a880e8.jpeg

I've had that happen in -20 where the entire heat exchanger was covered in ice.  Even with the cold temps the sled was starting to run hot until I was able to get the ice out of there.  Just wait until a big piece drops out and gets stuck between the track and tunnel.

Knock what you can out before stopping for lunch and at the end of the day too.

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8 hours ago, favoritos said:

I keep hearing people say put on scratchers to fix the problem.  The picture is a great example of how that answer works in the real world.  I hate scratchers and it pisses me off that we should ever have them on a trail sled riding in good conditions.  I've tried quite a few variations of scratchers and still have not found anything that doesn't drive me crazy with high speed riding.  They chatter and vibrate, wear out in a heartbeat, and fling junk into the sled.  It used to drive me nuts when they accidentally dropped and I could feel the destruction began.  Run scratchers with high speeds all day and get out your shopping list for parts.  I've started using heavy wire to tie them off unless needed.  (The gazillion different hanger options don't work in the real world.) 

Scratchers are just the reality I'm afraid.  All the sleds in our group need them.  Some will be down more than others but on those days where they are needed they are a real help.  I would say the Procross is worse than the others though.

The little bit of junk the scratchers kick up is nothing compared to the sand blasting my skid takes in low snow conditions.

image.thumb.png.4875af26be7b55cb03709bcf909f14b4.png

image.thumb.png.2a7f2a23fa2f5b3df6694ebc9685160f.png

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26 minutes ago, teamgreen02 said:

I've had that happen in -20 where the entire heat exchanger was covered in ice.  Even with the cold temps the sled was starting to run hot until I was able to get the ice out of there.  Just wait until a big piece drops out and gets stuck between the track and tunnel.

Knock what you can out before stopping for lunch and at the end of the day too.

Happened to me last year.  It was -20 and I thought I broke something.  Sled was making a racket like something REALLY bad happened.  Came to find one chunk of ice the size of a softball, and another the size and basic shape of a football.  Both were bouncing around making a hell of a noise.  

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1 minute ago, soeaster said:

Happened to me last year.  It was -20 and I thought I broke something.  Sled was making a racket like something REALLY bad happened.  Came to find one chunk of ice the size of a softball, and another the size and basic shape of a football.  Both were bouncing around making a hell of a noise.  

Yeah, I had the same reaction when that happened.  I locked up the brakes, slide the sled to a stop, and then put it in reverse.  I could already tell there was an issue before that.  Through the bumps the track was rubbing on the ice.

My sled is only outside a few days per trip so most of the time the ice buildup isn't a problem.  Just on real cold days.  Once I get back from a trip it goes into my garage to thaw out.

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22 hours ago, teamgreen02 said:

Scratchers are just the reality I'm afraid.  All the sleds in our group need them.  Some will be down more than others but on those days where they are needed they are a real help.  I would say the Procross is worse than the others though.

The little bit of junk the scratchers kick up is nothing compared to the sand blasting my skid takes in low snow conditions.

image.thumb.png.4875af26be7b55cb03709bcf909f14b4.png

image.thumb.png.2a7f2a23fa2f5b3df6694ebc9685160f.png

Solid work bending that solid steel cross shaft..  make sure the front arm is hitting the bottom out rubbers before the spring is coil binding solid.  Looks like you've got the preload wound up pretty good on that mid shock

 

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22 hours ago, teamgreen02 said:

Scratchers are just the reality I'm afraid.  All the sleds in our group need them.  Some will be down more than others but on those days where they are needed they are a real help.  I would say the Procross is worse than the others though.

The little bit of junk the scratchers kick up is nothing compared to the sand blasting my skid takes in low snow conditions.

image.thumb.png.4875af26be7b55cb03709bcf909f14b4.png

image.thumb.png.2a7f2a23fa2f5b3df6694ebc9685160f.png

Ooof.

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  • 3 weeks later...

  Well, I’ll state my solution to the ice bergs, and (in my opinion) inferior scratchers.

  My wife had ordered some non stick stuff to try and keep deck clean underneath on lawnmower. Stuffs called TITESEAL, I never tried it cause didn’t think it help. 
  Reading can it said also good for keeping snow from sticking to snowblowers. Lightbulb moment, something about ceramic coating, bla bla bla. Sprayed under tunnel and holyshit it helped a lot.

   Scratchers, I make my own. The cable ones I couldn’t get a season out of em before cable broke. I’ve drug mine for two seasons now, never putting em up, still going strong. Forgive me if this is against some rule, but I do sell em, half price and last twice as long.

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On 1/13/2022 at 10:03 AM, Not greg b said:

The trails in downtown Merrill won’t keep sleds cool 

truthfully, I feel that was the final straw before my epic burndown.

but we've got'er all sorted out now!  :thumbsup:

IMG_20220207_170403760.jpg

Edited by Crnr2Crnr
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29 minutes ago, cats19 said:

besides scratchers could there be a track design that somehow throws snow up to the cooler easier?  

Shorter lug tracks actually work better.

Longer lugs throw a bigger roost but it's all out the back, they have a harder time actually picking up the snow.

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5 hours ago, mnstang said:

Shorter lug tracks actually work better.

Longer lugs throw a bigger roost but it's all out the back, they have a harder time actually picking up the snow.

Not always true.  Same exact sled ran went from Cobra to Backcountry and the BC ran significantly cooler.  Obviously compared with a riding buddies sled and not itself so same conditions.  Generally what you say is true, but stiffness and shape can make a difference that will change the results.

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