Crnr2Crnr Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 Max world champion or Lewis cheated of 8th title? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Member poopooforme Posted December 13, 2021 Gold Member Share Posted December 13, 2021 They know how to keep it interesting thats for sure. Some shady shit at the end with the lap traffic but I am all for someone besides that sawed off little prick winning again.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airflite1 Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 I didn't watch the whole season but hadn't Max built up quite a points lead early in the season, only to have it disappear after a couple of suspect take-outs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckf Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 1 hour ago, airflite1 said: I didn't watch the whole season but hadn't Max built up quite a points lead early in the season, only to have it disappear after a couple of suspect take-outs? Yes, Hamilton closed the gap over the last several races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamgreen02 Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 1 hour ago, airflite1 said: I didn't watch the whole season but hadn't Max built up quite a points lead early in the season, only to have it disappear after a couple of suspect take-outs? The points were close the whole season. Max had a lead built up after Mexico but Lewis won the next few races. Max had to win one of the last 4 if Lewis finished first and he finished second. Those guys 1-2 were a given besides for a crash or mechanical issue. Here is the stewards ruling after the Mercedes protest. After the FIA stewards initially rejected Mercedes' protest over Max Verstappen illegally overtaking behind the safety car, a second protest was also dismissed about the restart from the late safety car period. Here's the full FIA verdict: Protest filed by Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team against the Classification established at the end of the Competition Stewards Decision: The Protest is dismissed. Procedure: 1. On December 12 the parties were summoned at 2015 hrs (Documents 54 and 55) and heard. The following persons were present during the hearing: On behalf of Mercedes: - Ron Meadows - Andrew Shovlin - Paul Harris (Team Legal Counsel) On behalf of Red Bull: - Jonathan Wheatley - Christian Horner - Adrian Newey Red Bull, as an "interested party" was permitted to attend. The hearing adjourned at 2050hrs to allow Red Bull to consider its response in further detail and reconvened at 2130hrs. The Race Director was present for the reconvened hearing. 2. At the hearing there were no objections against the composition of the Stewards panel. The parties set out oral arguments and addressed the questions asked by the Stewards. 3. At the hearing the parties referred to the documents submitted. Red Bull submitted graphical information (Exhibit A). The claims of Mercedes: Mercedes claimed that there were two breaches of the Sporting Regulations (Article 48.12) namely that which states "..any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car" and "…once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap." Mercedes argued that had this been complied with, Car 44 would have won the race. They therefore requested the Stewards to amend the Classification under Article 11.9.3.h of the FIA International Sporting Code. Red Bull's arguments in defence: Red Bull argued that 1. "Any" does not mean "all". 2. The Article 48.13 of the Sporting Regulations states that the message "Safety Car in this lap" is the signal that it will enter the pit lane at the end of that lap. 3. That therefore Article 48.13 "overrides" Article 48.12. 4. That Article 15.3 gives the Race Director "overriding authority" over "the use of the safety car". 5. That even if all cars that had been lapped (8 in total, of which 5 were allowed to overtake the safety car) it would not have changed the outcome of the race. Race Director's Evidence The Race Director stated that the purpose of Article 48.12 was to remove those lapped cars that would "interfere" in the racing between the leaders and that in his view Article 48.13 was the one that applied in this case. The Race Director also stated that it had long been agreed by all the Teams that where possible it was highly desirable for the race to end in a "green" condition (i.e. not under a Safety Car). Conclusions of the Stewards: The Stewards consider that the protest is admissible. Having considered the various statements made by the parties the Stewards determine the following: That Article 15.3 allows the Race Director to control the use of the safety car, which in our determination includes its deployment and withdrawal. That although Article 48.12 may not have been applied fully, in relation to the safety car returning to the pits at the end of the following lap, Article 48.13 overrides that and once the message "Safety Car in this lap" has been displayed, it is mandatory to withdraw the safety car at the end of that lap. That notwithstanding Mercedes' request that the Stewards remediate the matter by amending the classification to reflect the positions at the end of the penultimate lap, this is a step that the Stewards believe is effectively shortening the race retrospectively, and hence not appropriate. Accordingly, the Protest is dismissed. The Protest Deposit is not refunded. Competitors are reminded that they have the right to appeal certain decisions of the Stewards, in accordance with Article 15 of the FIA International Sporting Code and Chapter 4 of the FIA Judicial and Disciplinary Rules, within the applicable time limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter21i Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 Hamilton is a whiny bitch....if Mercedes had pitted him for new tires during the safety car, Verspatten would have stayed out and Hamilton would have won. They rolled the dice and lost.. great season. Mercedes deserved the constructors award and Verspatten deserves the driver title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamgreen02 Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 11 minutes ago, Skeeter21i said: Hamilton is a whiny bitch....if Mercedes had pitted him for new tires during the safety car, Verspatten would have stayed out and Hamilton would have won. They rolled the dice and lost.. great season. Mercedes deserved the constructors award and Verspatten deserves the driver title. Mercedes played it too safe. Lewis was out there on 40 some lap used hard tires. Compared to new softs that is probably a couple seconds per lap. Pretty much a given Max was going to pass Lewis under those circumstances. Mercedes didn't think they were going to get the crash cleared and restarted in time. All the teams agree the best way to end a race is under racing conditions. Probably the best thing they could have done was red flag the race. Then it would have been a rolling start with 5 laps to go and everyone on fresh soft tires. 5 lap shootout, may the best man win. DRS active for the last 3 laps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted December 13, 2021 Author Share Posted December 13, 2021 53 minutes ago, teamgreen02 said: Probably the best thing they could have done was red flag the race. Then it would have been a rolling start with 5 laps to go and everyone on fresh soft tires. 5 lap shootout, may the best man win. DRS active for the last 3 laps. I agree Finishing behind the safety car would have also been a rubbish ending to a well battled season between the two. They're going to have to make some rules/regulations changes before next season though in regards to properly communicating with the teams and drivers. If looks could kill, Toto committed mass genocide yesterday. Horner would have done the same. Crazy end to a wild season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1jkw Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 Seems like bullshit to get all the traffic out of the way, part of racing is getting through traffic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted December 13, 2021 Author Share Posted December 13, 2021 https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/12/its-time-for-electronic-gravel-traps-to-save-f1-from-itself/ This is an interesting article, which imo seems to be a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Rigid1 Posted December 13, 2021 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 13, 2021 Max for the win! He won so Louie and Toto are butt hurt.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roosting Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 Toto was classless in defeat. Completely and totally. What a poor display of sportsmanship. Talks a good talk but his actions show what a twat he really is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Rigid1 Posted December 13, 2021 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Roosting said: Toto was classless in defeat. Completely and totally. What a poor display of sportsmanship. Talks a good talk but his actions show what a twat he really is. So was Louie, didn't even pull into the winners circle to take the 2nd place spot, Sainz pulled into his 3rd spot, spoke like a true sportsman even though coming in 3rd.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roosting Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Rigid1 said: So was Louie, didn't even pull into the winners circle to take the 2nd place spot, Sainz pulled into his 3rd spot, spoke like a true sportsman even though coming in 3rd.. Saw that as well but I can sort of see that he didnt want that attention immediately after and needed some time to compose himself. He did make an appearance once he sorted himself out. But Lewis is a drama queen so it was expected. Toto absolutely lost it and was a clown until he disappeared. Guaranteed someone told him to go hide as his actions were detrimental to the team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamgreen02 Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Rigid1 said: So was Louie, didn't even pull into the winners circle to take the 2nd place spot, Sainz pulled into his 3rd spot, spoke like a true sportsman even though coming in 3rd.. 3rd place for Sainz and Ferrari is like a win this season. Just no way they are beating Lewis in a Merc or Max in a Red Bull unless they crash out. Look how fast Lewis went last to first with a new power unit. Edited December 14, 2021 by teamgreen02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Rigid1 Posted December 14, 2021 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 14, 2021 Just now, teamgreen02 said: 3rd place for Sainz and Ferrari is like a win this season. Just no way they are beating a Merc or Red Bull straight up. They are having a lot better season than last year..I like Sainz, big fan of his father, watched a lot of him growing up in Paris to Dakkar and WRC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamgreen02 Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Rigid1 said: They are having a lot better season than last year..I like Sainz, big fan of his father, watched a lot of him growing up in Paris to Dakkar and WRC Both him and Leclerc seem like promising drivers for Ferrari. I wish the Ferrari were back on top of their game. Last year with a Mercedes blowout and this year with Mercedes and Red Bull running away from the pack it got better. Would be good to see more in the hunt for the constructors championship. Mclaren had a good year too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Contributing Member Rigid1 Posted December 14, 2021 Platinum Contributing Member Share Posted December 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, teamgreen02 said: Both him and Leclerc seem like promising drivers for Ferrari. I wish the Ferrari were back on top of their game. Last year with a Mercedes blowout and this year with Mercedes and Red Bull running away from the pack it got better. Would be good to see more in the hunt for the constructors championship. Mclaren had a good year too. I agree 100%, I want to see more competition.. would be an epic season with those 4 mfg's all in the Hunt for race wins consistently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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