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8 hours ago, Bontz said:

@racerdave - Dave ... you own a 650, don't you?  And I'm pretty sure we ride the same types of trails with similar riding styles, too.  What is your feedback?

Power wise, It reminds me of the 700's I had. Accelerates hard. The only thing I don't like is the narrowness of the seat front. That's personal preference. Maybe if I didn't ride the tank, and pulled my handlebars back, instead of so far forward, the seat would be a non issue.  Fuel consumption is on par with my 850. I think the 650 could go down as a legendary motor for Polaris , like the original 700 BB has. As far as fuel goes, where I ride I always get 91 non ethy, pretty much from the same stations all the time in the last 20 plus years. No problems yet. Luck?

Edited by racerdave
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2 hours ago, Legend said:

Care to name the place? I dont usually get gas from bars, but sure as hell dont want to find myself out of gas near this place.

It is in the Tipler Wisconsin area 

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3 hours ago, Zambroski said:

I guess you can build it to run whatever you want and make it run well that way.  Usually, higher compression engineering require higher octane but it’s some type of formula that is determined by volume ratio and above my pay (and care) grade. I’m just curious why the designed it to run on 87.  Lower octane fuel burns faster and since the fuel is what does the crank cooling….how does that map out?

I don’t know, I just thought it odd that it was engineered to run 87. It’s odd in today’s market.  Not a bad thing though I suppose.  

Timing, injector placement along with injector timing also play a very large part in fuel requirements. Its not just compression. 

 

No ethanol 87 oct has the same BTU as no ethanol 91 oct. 

No fuel in crankcases in Polaris or Ski Doo liquid cooled sled engines. IDK about Cat, I dont think the Ctec does, but maybe? Where are the injectors? 

Well the new Polaris boost engines actually do have fuel running through the crankcase with the secondary injectors. 

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Just round table talk……

Cylinder psi during compression (trapped a/f mixture in the soace allotted) 

Intake Air temp

Comb chamber shape

Engine rpm

etc (some stuff mentioned above eith 

dictate what the timing requirements are and what octane fuel to be used.

modern efi systems, as mentioned above, can usually allow more compression without knock issues.

Edited by CFM
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Honestly, from what I’ve learned through my current career, I don’t have a problem running E10 fuel, in season, in my sleds. ALWAYS eth free for storage and I use eth free for all of my premix fuel that I use around the yard. The wife’s sled is the only one that says on eth free no matter what because it usually only gets ridden once a year. 
 

The in-laws have three 600 VES Edge chassis sleds. The brother in law only rides his Edge X once a year so I make him keep eth free in that sled. Father in law is too cheap to put eth free in his and the mother in laws sleds during the season but they ride at least 20-30 miles every other weekend and he will use it for storage. 
 

With all of this said, I haven’t noticed any discernible loss in power or runability in any of these sleds, using this fueling strategy. Four of these sleds are carburated and I haven’t had any issues with that either. Just my findings.  

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6 hours ago, Legend said:

Ive filled a few times at the Whitetail Inn......

Would not recommend it.  Haven't filled and sleds from there for 2 years and haven't needed to change the sock since.

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9 hours ago, Legend said:

Timing, injector placement along with injector timing also play a very large part in fuel requirements. Its not just compression. 

 

No ethanol 87 oct has the same BTU as no ethanol 91 oct. 

No fuel in crankcases in Polaris or Ski Doo liquid cooled sled engines. IDK about Cat, I dont think the Ctec does, but maybe? Where are the injectors? 

Well the new Polaris boost engines actually do have fuel running through the crankcase with the secondary injectors. 

With the 500's they did not want you to use 91 octane.  The exception being if you install a advance timing key and/or did the head mod for increased compression.  

It's my assumption that changing fuel settings in the 650 alters the timing.

Screenshot_20211201-074829.png

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2 hours ago, Doug said:

Would not recommend it.  Haven't filled and sleds from there for 2 years and haven't needed to change the sock since.

Well I haven't filled from there in probably close to 10 years. But its good to know in case Im in that area again. 

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11 hours ago, racerdave said:

FWIW I run a bottle of Techron in each sled a couple times a season, same for Sierra,Terrain, and Mustang

https://www.techron.com/

 

 

techron.jpeg

Really not needed if you’re using ethanol blended fuel. 

On 11/30/2021 at 11:53 AM, Bontz said:

I'm not anti-ethanol in my sled, but running the 800/850 (or 840 if you want to be technical) sleds over the past 20 years or so .. I have only filled with ethanol when absolutely necessary.  And if my sled had to sit more than a week or two, that gas would be siphoned out and put into a vehicle.  Now though, with the Polaris 650, if it was truly engineered as running "better" on 87 ethanol, I would run that gas (again, only if it wasn't going to sit for a while after that particular fill up).  If 91-non ethanol is still considered the "gold standard" and provides any level of noticeable difference, I'll run that.  But I don't think the 650 is subject to DET like the 850/840 and I certainly ain't expecting HYPER SLED (there, I said it!:lol2:) performance out of a 650.

I run E10 premium in all of my 800 sleds. No issues. The only time I run rec fuel is if that’s the only high octane fuel the station that I’m filling at, has. A lot of UP stations only have rec fuel in their high octane tanks. 

21 hours ago, Zambroski said:

I guess you can build it to run whatever you want and make it run well that way.  Usually, higher compression engineering require higher octane but it’s some type of formula that is determined by volume ratio and above my pay (and care) grade. I’m just curious why the designed it to run on 87.  Lower octane fuel burns faster and since the fuel is what does the crank cooling….how does that map out?

I don’t know, I just thought it odd that it was engineered to run 87. It’s odd in today’s market.  Not a bad thing though I suppose.  

Cost. I believe that was their only marketing ploy with saying that it was designed to run on regular/non premium gas. 
 

Also, the lower the octane, the easier it starts. Especially in colder weather. 

Edited by SayatodaU.P.eh?
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On 11/30/2021 at 12:59 PM, Bontz said:

That's another good point ... and one I've also mentioned to others, but didn't give it much thought on this post.  FRESH fuel and in the Northwoods, generally is the 91+ stuff.

 

On 11/30/2021 at 2:01 PM, jdsky said:

Yeah, I would have said it's the exact opposite up North.  The Shell stations, BP's, Kwik Trip's in towns all have hundreds of auto's filling up with 87 all day every day.  That fuel turns over far faster than premium in my opinion. 

I would only fill up at a "Bar Tank" if I personally know the owner/operator and trust when he says the fuel is fresh and his tank is clean.

I'm with jdsky.  Rural rednecks don't have vehicles that run on 91 and if they do they still put in 87.  The Citiots however drink 91 in their 20 year old Honda because they think it is better for their ????   That and of course we have a bunch of people here with cars that NEED 91+, hell my Escalade pings on 91 but that is my fault and since we have 93 right here I tuned on it.

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4 hours ago, SayatodaU.P.eh? said:

Really not needed if you’re using ethanol blended fuel. 

I run E10 premium in all of my 800 sleds. No issues. The only time I run rec fuel is if that’s the only high octane fuel the station that I’m filling at, has. A lot of UP stations only have rec fuel in their high octane tanks. 

Cost. I believe that was their only marketing ploy with saying that it was designed to run on regular/non premium gas. 
 

Also, the lower the octane, the easier it starts. Especially in colder weather. 

I don't run ethanol

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On 11/30/2021 at 8:49 PM, racerdave said:

Power wise, It reminds me of the 700's I had. Accelerates hard. The only thing I don't like is the narrowness of the seat front. That's personal preference. Maybe if I didn't ride the tank, and pulled my handlebars back, instead of so far forward, the seat would be a non issue.  Fuel consumption is on par with my 850. I think the 650 could go down as a legendary motor for Polaris , like the original 700 BB has. As far as fuel goes, where I ride I always get 91 non ethy, pretty much from the same stations all the time in the last 20 plus years. No problems yet. Luck?

i too disliked the narrow seat. i don't say it much to avoid getting bashed. i was fortunate to try it while i had a chance to grab an axys xcr. it was not natural for me to bend my knees in that far. i felt the seat was pushing me forward. when i'm cranking i like to squeeze the tank to hang on and the axys fits me perfect for that. it's otherwise the same sled . 7s dislay was cool , but i spend my time watching where i'm going, not looking at the gauge. the vr1 i rode was so smooth it was amazing. the 850 made me off my xcr 800 4 days later and grab the xcr 850

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I really don't think the ethanol thing is as big of a deal as people make it.  Our 96 Jag has had ethanol ran most of its life and has never had to have the carb cleaned in 25 years and a couple times it has sat for two years without being ran.  With that said, I don't like ethanol and prefer to not use it, but I'd also rather have my machine running the best.  If they're saying the 650 runs better on 87, I'd have a hard time not putting that in.  Maybe if you're at a real podunk place I'd maybe go for non oxy, but that can be a crapshoot either way.

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12 minutes ago, mnstang said:

I really don't think the ethanol thing is as big of a deal as people make it.  Our 96 Jag has had ethanol ran most of its life and has never had to have the carb cleaned in 25 years and a couple times it has sat for two years without being ran.  With that said, I don't like ethanol and prefer to not use it, but I'd also rather have my machine running the best.  If they're saying the 650 runs better on 87, I'd have a hard time not putting that in.  Maybe if you're at a real podunk place I'd maybe go for non oxy, but that can be a crapshoot either way.

fwiw, anything with a carb I would avoid ethanol blended fuel, especially if it's something you don't use on a regular basis.  for anything fuel injected past 98-99ish you should be fine as all car/truck/boat/sled/atv/bike/etc manufacturers changed the rubber compounds in their fuel systems by then as ethanol blended fuel became the norm across the country by then.  I recall seeing tons of fuel/rubber problems back in 95/96 with older vehicles when 10% blend started coming around.  have also seen blend gunk up carbs, pumps, regulators, etc. on older stuff.  

if you can get non-eth for your toys by all means do.  if you can't, then use an additive when not turning the fuel over frequently... and I hate suggesting additives.

I put this in the 500 in the off season if my last two tanks were not pure fuel without ethanol.   https://www.goldeagle.com/product/sta-bil-360-protection/

 

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17 minutes ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

fwiw, anything with a carb I would avoid ethanol blended fuel, especially if it's something you don't use on a regular basis.  for anything fuel injected past 98-99ish you should be fine as all car/truck/boat/sled/atv/bike/etc manufacturers changed the rubber compounds in their fuel systems by then as ethanol blended fuel became the norm across the country by then.  I recall seeing tons of fuel/rubber problems back in 95/96 with older vehicles when 10% blend started coming around.  have also seen blend gunk up carbs, pumps, regulators, etc. on older stuff.  

if you can get non-eth for your toys by all means do.  if you can't, then use an additive when not turning the fuel over frequently... and I hate suggesting additives.

I put this in the 500 in the off season if my last two tanks were not pure fuel without ethanol.   https://www.goldeagle.com/product/sta-bil-360-protection/

 

I've been using and working on junk pretty much my whole life and I haven't had much issue so I'll probably keep doing what I'm doing

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2 minutes ago, mnstang said:

I've been using and working on junk pretty much my whole life and I haven't had much issue so I'll probably keep doing what I'm doing

clearly you've been more fortunate than others and do actual 'maintenance'

some people don't know how to open the hood of their car to fill the washer solvent jug... no bullshit  

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2 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

some people don't know how to open the hood of their car to fill the washer solvent jug... no bullshit  

I haven't bought a jug of washer fluid in years.  Do they still sell that stuff?

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