Bontz Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 I'm not sure how many 650 owners we've got here, maybe I'm the only one (if I ever take delivery of my sled, that is!) LOL If there are guys who had them last year, I'm kind of curious on any noticeable differences in running regular 87 (ethanol based) gas vs. 91 non-ethanol? I know the engine was supposedly built to run "better" on 87, but I hate the idea of ethanol gas in any 2-stroke engine .... or at least if it's going to sit longer than a week. The price savings over the course of a season isn't a big deal to me - it's probably, what, about $100 if a guy were to put on ~2000 miles? Anyway, just curious if anyone has firsthand experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdsky Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 Be interesting to see if anyone runs it since Poo mentions it as an option. Just another reason I used to run 600's all the time back in my two smoker days. Run regular unleaded when burning through tank after tank then fill up with premium for storage. I never had a fuel related issue with any of my 600's. I always smile a bit when someone says the cost does not matter and agree if it's only one sled but when you have to fuel up two or more that changes things a bit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 I burn 87 in the 500 Fortunately we have a station here in town that carries 87 ethanol free and I keep a 5gal can of it to dilute fuel I have to buy on the trail and for storage. Stabil also makes an eth blend fuel storage additive fwiw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bontz Posted November 30, 2021 Author Share Posted November 30, 2021 @jdsky - good point on the fuel cost when it comes down to 1 sled vs. multiple fill ups. You're absolutely right (as I think back to a buddy of mine who paid $200 to fill up 4 sleds a few years back!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 34 minutes ago, Bontz said: I'm not sure how many 650 owners we've got here, maybe I'm the only one (if I ever take delivery of my sled, that is!) LOL If there are guys who had them last year, I'm kind of curious on any noticeable differences in running regular 87 (ethanol based) gas vs. 91 non-ethanol? I know the engine was supposedly built to run "better" on 87, but I hate the idea of ethanol gas in any 2-stroke engine .... or at least if it's going to sit longer than a week. The price savings over the course of a season isn't a big deal to me - it's probably, what, about $100 if a guy were to put on ~2000 miles? Anyway, just curious if anyone has firsthand experience. Really? and indeed. 2 smokes are violent engines prone to self destruction. I run the best I can get in all forms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bontz Posted November 30, 2021 Author Share Posted November 30, 2021 15 minutes ago, Zambroski said: Really? and indeed. 2 smokes are violent engines prone to self destruction. I run the best I can get in all forms. Really - yes. I'd have to do some ol' GOOGLE TIME to find it, but yes ... the 650 was promoted as running better / "optimized" to run on 87 octane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Bontz said: Really - yes. I'd have to do some ol' GOOGLE TIME to find it, but yes ... the 650 was promoted as running better / "optimized" to run on 87 octane. Interesting. I wonder what the cut on the heads are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 If I spend $10k on gas in the winter in my sled it will be the happiest $10k I've spent. Non-subsidized ethanol nonsense will never make it into my toys. Had a buddy that always ran ethanol and mine that didn't. We rode super similar miles during the year and when I cleaned both of our carbs mine were super clean and his were full of funk. That was 2005 and the last straw for ethanol for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFM Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 33 minutes ago, Bontz said: @jdsky - good point on the fuel cost when it comes down to 1 sled vs. multiple fill ups. You're absolutely right (as I think back to a buddy of mine who paid $200 to fill up 4 sleds a few years back!). I sometimes ride with a family of five and a family of 6. Asswipes who dismiss price of anything, are just being lazy in thought or just complacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdsky Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 27 minutes ago, Deephaven said: when I cleaned both of our carbs mine were super clean and his were full of funk. That was 2005 and the last straw for ethanol for me. I avoided dirty carbs by eliminating them altogether from 1993 on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deephaven Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 1 minute ago, jdsky said: I avoided dirty carbs by eliminating them altogether from 1993 on. Clogged injectors are equally as dangerous to your motor. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bontz Posted November 30, 2021 Author Share Posted November 30, 2021 I'm not anti-ethanol in my sled, but running the 800/850 (or 840 if you want to be technical) sleds over the past 20 years or so .. I have only filled with ethanol when absolutely necessary. And if my sled had to sit more than a week or two, that gas would be siphoned out and put into a vehicle. Now though, with the Polaris 650, if it was truly engineered as running "better" on 87 ethanol, I would run that gas (again, only if it wasn't going to sit for a while after that particular fill up). If 91-non ethanol is still considered the "gold standard" and provides any level of noticeable difference, I'll run that. But I don't think the 650 is subject to DET like the 850/840 and I certainly ain't expecting HYPER SLED (there, I said it!) performance out of a 650. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A05GSHO Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 Are you really going to notice the 650 running "better" on 87 vs 91 non E? I would have to say not, but then we're going to find out. I'll be running 91 non E in mine unless there's that big of a running "better" issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bontz Posted November 30, 2021 Author Share Posted November 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, A05GSHO said: Are you really going to notice the 650 running "better" on 87 vs 91 non E? I would have to say not, but then we're going to find out. I'll be running 91 non E in mine unless there's that big of a running "better" issue. I highly doubt there's going to be a seat of the pants performance increase ... whether it's running 87e or 91 non-e. But if there's a fuel economy difference, based on how the engine was designed, that will be interesting (to me, anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bontz Posted November 30, 2021 Author Share Posted November 30, 2021 @racerdave - Dave ... you own a 650, don't you? And I'm pretty sure we ride the same types of trails with similar riding styles, too. What is your feedback? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 Always ran Premuim prefer non-ethanol and would use Premuim ethanol before dropping down to 87 octane. Too many smaller stations up Nth and questionable how good the fuel is. In snowmobiling areas during the season Premuim is normally the freshest fuel. We have a bar by our place up Nth that we've had problems with the fuel in sleds and even with our jeep that I won't buy any fuel from there. The owner's not the most up front guy and don't trust what's in his tanks. Was just up over Thanksgiving and Premium by him was $4.26 a gallon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bontz Posted November 30, 2021 Author Share Posted November 30, 2021 37 minutes ago, Doug said: Always ran Premuim prefer non-ethanol and would use Premuim ethanol before dropping down to 87 octane. Too many smaller stations up Nth and questionable how good the fuel is. In snowmobiling areas during the season Premuim is normally the freshest fuel. We have a bar by our place up Nth that we've had problems with the fuel in sleds and even with our jeep that I won't buy any fuel from there. The owner's not the most up front guy and don't trust what's in his tanks. Was just up over Thanksgiving and Premium by him was $4.26 a gallon. That's another good point ... and one I've also mentioned to others, but didn't give it much thought on this post. FRESH fuel and in the Northwoods, generally is the 91+ stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 10 minutes ago, Bontz said: That's another good point ... and one I've also mentioned to others, but didn't give it much thought on this post. FRESH fuel and in the Northwoods, generally is the 91+ stuff. This is the intank fuel filter from our jeep. Almost like tar and I've had trouble with the sock filter on sleds. That's why I won't buy any fuel from there. Ended up putting a new fuel line on our jeep from the tank to the fuel pump and a new fuel pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crnr2Crnr Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Doug said: This is the intank fuel filter from our jeep. Almost like tar and I've had trouble with the sock filter on sleds. That's why I won't buy any fuel from there. Ended up putting a new fuel line on our jeep from the tank to the fuel pump and a new fuel pump. He has shit in his tank if it's like black mold. Too much water and condensation, improper venting, etc. Where I worked previously we saw a lot of it in farmers on site tanks. When the tank gets filled it stirs up the sludge at the bottom. It's worse in tanks with an ethanol blend that doesn't get turned (sold) enough. Nasty shit, and costly to remediate in diesel applications. There's a Shell in Eagle River, and a Kwik Trip which turn a lot of fuel which usually equates to fresh fuel. They also monitor their tanks, unlike Billy Bob's Backwoods Bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdsky Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 Yeah, I would have said it's the exact opposite up North. The Shell stations, BP's, Kwik Trip's in towns all have hundreds of auto's filling up with 87 all day every day. That fuel turns over far faster than premium in my opinion. I would only fill up at a "Bar Tank" if I personally know the owner/operator and trust when he says the fuel is fresh and his tank is clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFM Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 Yup, the freshest fuel up here is 87. We are heavy with boats too, and most of those are set up for and run better on 87 fuel. Even Merc 502MPI’s, 500EFI’s, and 525EFI’s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 Im not saying you cant get bad fuel from stations, but they are supposed to have filters on the lines at the pumps. Also if you are wondering what gives better mpg, no ethanol will always give better mpg. Ethanol has lower BTU than gasoline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 4 hours ago, Doug said: This is the intank fuel filter from our jeep. Almost like tar and I've had trouble with the sock filter on sleds. That's why I won't buy any fuel from there. Ended up putting a new fuel line on our jeep from the tank to the fuel pump and a new fuel pump. Care to name the place? I dont usually get gas from bars, but sure as hell dont want to find myself out of gas near this place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ez ryder Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 8 hours ago, Zambroski said: Really? and indeed. 2 smokes are violent engines prone to self destruction. I run the best I can get in all forms. Reality is both will work . But running 91 on a 2st built to run on 87 will it do jack shit it will prob make a bit more safe to run but it will 100% not make it run better or faster if anything it will run slower . Nothing a person will notice but I bet on a dyno it would show up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zambroski Posted December 1, 2021 Share Posted December 1, 2021 24 minutes ago, Ez ryder said: Reality is both will work . But running 91 on a 2st built to run on 87 will it do jack shit it will prob make a bit more safe to run but it will 100% not make it run better or faster if anything it will run slower . Nothing a person will notice but I bet on a dyno it would show up I guess you can build it to run whatever you want and make it run well that way. Usually, higher compression engineering require higher octane but it’s some type of formula that is determined by volume ratio and above my pay (and care) grade. I’m just curious why the designed it to run on 87. Lower octane fuel burns faster and since the fuel is what does the crank cooling….how does that map out? I don’t know, I just thought it odd that it was engineered to run 87. It’s odd in today’s market. Not a bad thing though I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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