California law bans small off-road gas engines, including lawnmowers and chainsaws

[racer254]

It is amazing the fools who can't see what this is.  Where do you suppose the power to charge the batteries will come from?  FFS California has to have rolling blackouts now because they can't produce enough electricity.

[irv]

25 minutes ago, Phenom said:

I’ve gone electric in my “garden” equipment and some other things. So far my list is string trimmer, chainsaw, leaf blower, and hedge clipper. All are Milwaukee and use the same batteries. All of these outperform their gas counterparts size for size and are much quieter and a joy to run. I’m still on my 30 year old John Deere for mowing, but if it gave up the ghost I wouldn’t count out electric if feasible. 
 

Cali is big and if the usual laws of supply and demand apply, production of electric will go way up and cost will come down…while getting better. Look at microwaves, cell phones TVs and computers. 
 

My ice auger is an ION and works fantastic. No more stinking gas on the ice fishing spot. 

You're delusional if you think solar and wind is cheaper or will become cheaper. We tried that up here and some had to choose between eating or paying their electrical bill. It's a scam, dude, open your eyes. The only thing "green" about this movement is the green the alarmists and the liars are putting in their pockets.

"Wynne says while she's proud of the work done to remove coal from the system, it is unacceptable that some people have to choose between paying for food and heating"

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/ontario-premier-kathleen-wynne-takes-responsibility-for-high-electricity-prices-calling-them-a-mistake

 

[Rigid1]

14 minutes ago, racer254 said:

This is a law that directly effects the middle class.  They are the majority that will be having to change because of this law.  Class warfare on a different scale.

Nobody has to change, but if your $225 dollar gas trimmer shits the bed after 2024  in CA you are going to have to buy a $225 battery trimmer. They were going to have to buy one anyway if they want to trim. And if they want to buy a hedge trimmer and already have a string trimmer with a battery you can buy the bare tool for $150 instead of having to but a whole new gas hedge trimmer for $350+ so it will save money and no gas an oil, so savings are there also. Most tools have a huge warranty 4-5 years on the battery powered tool where a gas unit will usually have 90 days to a year, so saving there on repairs. It's a smart move for the average middle to lower class home owner and will result in a lot of savings

Edited October 11, 2021 by Rigid1

[Phenom]

1 minute ago, racer254 said:

It is amazing the fools who can't see what this is.  Where do you suppose the power to charge the batteries will come from?  FFS California has to have rolling blackouts now because they can't produce enough electricity.

Good news for my nephew who is out in the NY area updating their power grid. The same will be done across the country and that’s JOBS, and an eventual better and healthier life. I’m sure recharging lawn equipment will have a very minute impact on the power demands. 

[racer254]

8 minutes ago, Phenom said:

I’m middle class, single income and transitioning just fine. 

How much does your chainsaw cut?  I have ran the battery powered chainsaws.  You still need oil for the bar and honestly I am not that impressed.  Can you imagine being out in the woods and having to recharge your battery.  Especially if you don't have a power source.....probably have to get back in the gas powered pickup and run back home or to the nearest outlet to charge.   The little saving you just had from using an electric just got used in the first 15 minutes of running your truck.

[racer254]

5 minutes ago, Rigid1 said:

Nobody has to change, but if your $225 dollar gas trimmer shits the bed after 2024  in CA you are going to have to buy a $225 battery trimmer. They were going to have to buy one anyway if they want to trim. And if they want to buy a hedge trimmer and already have a string trimmer with a battery you can buy the bare tool for $150 instead of having to but a whole new gas hedge trimmer for $350+ so it will save money and no gas an oil, so savings are there also. Most tools have a huge warranty 4-5 years on the battery powered tool where a gas unit will usually have 90 days to a year, so saving there on repairs. It's a smart move for the average middle to lower class home owner and will result in a lot of savings

Yeah, something that is viable doesn't need a law to force people to change.  Did they force people to buy gasoline engines when their horses died?

If you want to change, like phenom is doing, that is great. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by racer254

[irv]

5 minutes ago, Phenom said:

Good news for my nephew who is out in the NY area updating their power grid. The same will be done across the country and that’s JOBS, and an eventual better and healthier life. I’m sure recharging lawn equipment will have a very minute impact on the power demands. 

Holy fuck, dude, they can't even keep up now. Are you completely ignorant to that fact or do you just not want to admit it?

[Rigid1]

7 minutes ago, Phenom said:

Do you actually own and run these Milwaukee tools?  I do and also their Stihl counterparts, and the Milwaukee give up nothing and outperform. 

Well considering I've been in the power equipment industry for 27 years, I'm a sales rep for a company that distributes outdoor power equipment including battery equipment and I also own a landscape business, and I am also involved in R&D with power equipment including battery equipment I'm going to say I'm pretty damn knowledgeable on it's capabilities and limitations..

[Phenom]

I have two batteries for the chainsaw and have cleared an acre of trees that averaged 8-10” in diameter, about 25 of them and only did a change out, no going anywhere to recharge. That Milwaukee kicks ass. The logs are 4’ long and stacked waiting for my ambition to turn them into firewood. 

[Phenom]

2 minutes ago, Rigid1 said:

Well considering I've been in the power equipment industry for 27 years, I'm a sales rep for a company that distributes outdoor power equipment including battery equipment and I also own a landscape business, and I am also involved in R&D with power equipment including battery equipment I'm going to say I'm pretty damn knowledgeable on it's capabilities and limitations..

Awesome, I’m just wondering if you went out to the wood lot with the Milwaukee chainsaw and a couple of 12ah batteries and experienced it for yourself. My buddy has a Mikita and mine runs circles around his. 

[irv]

Environmental Problems That Batteries Cause.

https://sciencing.com/environmental-problems-batteries-cause-7584347.html

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lithium-batteries-environment-impact

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2020/01/19/environmental-implications-of-lead-acid-and-lithium-ion-batteries/?sh=5f6e47987bf5

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/aug/10/electric-cars-big-battery-waste-problem-lithium-recycling

https://ecofriendlylink.com/blog/batteries-and-the-environment/

 

[Mainecat]

What a bunch of cavemen here. It’s the future like autos were to horses..

the title is misleading. They are banning the sale in 3 years not banning the use.

Cadillac will be all EV in 4 years.

[BOHICA]

As a home owner level tools I prefer battery.  Much easier and more reliable.

on my work truck I carry mostly milwaukee tools and have ample batteries and the chain saw is just so convenient compare to gas equipment.   We all carry milwaukee on our work trucks and 2 of the 8 trucks we carry bigger gas saws.  But if it’s cutting into access roads snd such everybody first grab the milwaukee cause you can get away without hearing protection and it does the job of and gas powered 16” saw.  

[racer254]

8 minutes ago, Mainecat said:

What a bunch of cavemen here. It’s the future like autos were to horses..

the title is misleading. They are banning the sale in 3 years not banning the use.

Cadillac will be all EV in 4 years.

They didn't have to ban the sale of horses to get you to change to autos.  FFS.

[Mag6240]

I used a battery powered hedge trimmer out on some trails yesterday - did the job just fine.

What I have an issue with is forcing the industry to do something.  If it works, doesn't make noise, doesn't require carrying gas, and doesn't smell, most consumers will buy it with or without a law.  

Edited October 11, 2021 by Mag6240

[racer254]

1 minute ago, Mag6240 said:

I used a battery powered hedge trimmer out on some trails yesterday - did the job just fine.

What I have an issue with is forcing the industry to do something.  If it works, doesn't make noise, doesn't require carrying gas, and doesn't smell, most consumers will buy it with or without a law.  

Eerily similar to mandating a vaccine.

[Rigid1]

32 minutes ago, racer254 said:

Yeah, something that is viable doesn't need a law to force people to change.  Did they force people to buy gasoline engines when their horses died?

If you want to change, like phenom is doing, that is great. 

Well we are talking CA so obviously they do fucked up shit

[Crnr2Crnr]

I have a slew of Milwaukee electric tools and yard work tools.  String trimmer is excellent, gave my old 2s huffer to a neighbors kid who is using the engine for an RC boat project.  Sold my 2006 Husqvarna 320 chain saw this summer for what I paid for it new and will likely replace it with an electric next year.  The only thing 'smoky' I'm sticking with for now is my backpack leaf blower... because its awesome and we have a ton of trees around our house.

Imo Cali's new law won't affect most people in reality.  It should also make the price of used gas equipment more valuable to those looking to go electric. 

Lastly, this was my grandfather's Jacobson my dad used as a kid which I have stored since 2001.  The old two smoke probably isn't Cali friendly huh?

 

[Rigid1]

27 minutes ago, Phenom said:

Awesome, I’m just wondering if you went out to the wood lot with the Milwaukee chainsaw and a couple of 12ah batteries and experienced it for yourself. My buddy has a Mikita and mine runs circles around his. 

[Crnr2Crnr]

48 minutes ago, racer254 said:

It is amazing the fools who can't see what this is.  Where do you suppose the power to charge the batteries will come from?  FFS California has to have rolling blackouts now because they can't produce enough electricity.

First they grab the weed whackers, and then your firearms? 

aM i WRiTe?

[Highmark]

  Not to mention lithium production and what to do with the old batteries.

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/bryan-preston/2020/12/21/toyota-ceo-agrees-with-elon-musk-we-dont-have-enough-electricity-to-electrify-all-the-cars-n1222999

So Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda’s comments at the company’s year-end press conference deserve notice and no little amount of respect. He knows more about cars and their economic ecosystem than just about anyone else on the planet.

The Wall Street Journal was in attendance and noted the CEO’s disdain for EVs boils down to his belief they’ll ruin businesses, require massive investments, and even emit more carbon dioxide than combustion-engined vehicles. “The current business model of the car industry is going to collapse,” he said. “The more EVs we build, the worse carbon dioxide gets… When politicians are out there saying, ‘Let’s get rid of all cars using gasoline,’ do they understand this?”

CarBuzz has mischaracterized Toyoda’s comments. It’s not “disdain for EVs” he’s expressing. It’s disdain for the failure to count the cost of what politicians are proposing. More EVs will demand more electricity.

Toyoda is getting at two things. One, EVs are not powered by magical unicorn emissions, they are powered by the means we use to generate electricity. In Japan, the United States, and everywhere else, that’s fossil fuels to the tune of a huge majority of our electric power generation (61% in the U.S., with wind and solar making up about 17%, while Japan relies more heavily on nuclear power than most due to its lack of indigenous oil). Imagine taking every car in Japan or the United States and powering it not by gasoline or diesel, but by electricity. This will require a dramatic expansion of the amount of electric power we currently generate. There is no getting around this fact. We would be displacing gasoline or diesel for another power source. We’re still pulling something out of the ground and burning it in some way. The main question is where is it being burned?

How will we generate power to meet the new level of demand? Some will claim we can do it by ramping up renewables — wind and solar — but that’s not realistic. Drive out through West Texas between Llano and San Angelo out to Midland-Odessa and you’ll see a curious sight: hundreds and hundreds of towering windmills. Those are just the ones you can see from the road. There are more of them farther from the beaten paths. That part of Texas generates more wind power than the entire state of California. Wind farms cover mile after mile after mile. But all those hundreds of windmills only generate about 15% of Texas’ electricity. Wind is not economically competitive yet, so it’s subsidized by the government. Neither wind nor solar are cheap or reliable enough to displace oil and especially natural gas in our grid. The wind doesn’t always blow and the sun doesn’t always shine. Oil and natural gas always burn.

[BOHICA]

Lithium batteries can be recycled.

[Big Crappie]

1 hour ago, racer254 said:

This is a law that directly effects the middle class.  They are the majority that will be having to change because of this law.  Class warfare on a different scale.

They will be banning the sale of gas powered, not banning the use.

[Crnr2Crnr]

7 minutes ago, Highmark said:

  Not to mention lithium production and what to do with the old batteries.

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/bryan-preston/2020/12/21/toyota-ceo-agrees-with-elon-musk-we-dont-have-enough-electricity-to-electrify-all-the-cars-n1222999

So Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda’s comments at the company’s year-end press conference deserve notice and no little amount of respect. He knows more about cars and their economic ecosystem than just about anyone else on the planet.

The Wall Street Journal was in attendance and noted the CEO’s disdain for EVs boils down to his belief they’ll ruin businesses, require massive investments, and even emit more carbon dioxide than combustion-engined vehicles. “The current business model of the car industry is going to collapse,” he said. “The more EVs we build, the worse carbon dioxide gets… When politicians are out there saying, ‘Let’s get rid of all cars using gasoline,’ do they understand this?”

CarBuzz has mischaracterized Toyoda’s comments. It’s not “disdain for EVs” he’s expressing. It’s disdain for the failure to count the cost of what politicians are proposing. More EVs will demand more electricity.

Toyoda is getting at two things. One, EVs are not powered by magical unicorn emissions, they are powered by the means we use to generate electricity. In Japan, the United States, and everywhere else, that’s fossil fuels to the tune of a huge majority of our electric power generation (61% in the U.S., with wind and solar making up about 17%, while Japan relies more heavily on nuclear power than most due to its lack of indigenous oil). Imagine taking every car in Japan or the United States and powering it not by gasoline or diesel, but by electricity. This will require a dramatic expansion of the amount of electric power we currently generate. There is no getting around this fact. We would be displacing gasoline or diesel for another power source. We’re still pulling something out of the ground and burning it in some way. The main question is where is it being burned?

How will we generate power to meet the new level of demand? Some will claim we can do it by ramping up renewables — wind and solar — but that’s not realistic. Drive out through West Texas between Llano and San Angelo out to Midland-Odessa and you’ll see a curious sight: hundreds and hundreds of towering windmills. Those are just the ones you can see from the road. There are more of them farther from the beaten paths. That part of Texas generates more wind power than the entire state of California. Wind farms cover mile after mile after mile. But all those hundreds of windmills only generate about 15% of Texas’ electricity. Wind is not economically competitive yet, so it’s subsidized by the government. Neither wind nor solar are cheap or reliable enough to displace oil and especially natural gas in our grid. The wind doesn’t always blow and the sun doesn’t always shine. Oil and natural gas always burn.

Imo the world and the US isn't ready to go all electric and agree with the majority of what's said in the snippet.

Hybrids on the other hand make far more sense based upon our current electrical infrastructure, lack of agreement on how to produce massive amounts of juice and general consumer sentiment at the current time for the majority of the country.

[racer254]

2 minutes ago, Big Crappie said:

They will be banning the sale of gas powered, not banning the use.

That is why I said "having to change".  It's another passive aggressive way to make you do something.