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lmfao... it's even worse than I imagined


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I didn’t watch the video.  After reading this thread, I can’t bear it.

On the other hand, nobody can see into the future, but when markets and industry face the kinds of upheaval and disruptions we’ve seen in the last 18 months, there are those who fail to rise to the challenge and those who slide neatly into an opportunity that nobody realized was there.  I’m interested enough to keep watching the four brands, because Powersports, like automotive, is staged for some radical changes.  Don’t be too sure you know how it will turn out.

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6 minutes ago, p51mstg said:

I didn’t watch the video.  After reading this thread, I can’t bear it.

On the other hand, nobody can see into the future, but when markets and industry face the kinds of upheaval and disruptions we’ve seen in the last 18 months, there are those who fail to rise to the challenge and those who slide neatly into an opportunity that nobody realized was there.  I’m interested enough to keep watching the four brands, because Powersports, like automotive, is staged for some radical changes.  Don’t be too sure you know how it will turn out.

Solid post.  

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I was there. The presentation started shortly after I had brought up some concerns about the new quad to a sales rep. His response to all of them was “well how often does that happen?”.  This combined with finding a loose screw rolling around below the clutches of the orange alpha that CC had on display left me in a foul mood. I wonder what would have happened if someone in the audience yelled “Just sell it to Argo and go back to Georgia Heidi”.

Dang I wish I would have.

 

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5 hours ago, nacapster said:

Well, I learned a new word.... " handleable "....LOL

I eye rolled bigly over that one...

1 hour ago, p51mstg said:

I didn’t watch the video.  After reading this thread, I can’t bear it.

On the other hand, nobody can see into the future, but when markets and industry face the kinds of upheaval and disruptions we’ve seen in the last 18 months, there are those who fail to rise to the challenge and those who slide neatly into an opportunity that nobody realized was there.  I’m interested enough to keep watching the four brands, because Powersports, like automotive, is staged for some radical changes.  Don’t be too sure you know how it will turn out.

you should

change is coming, and I sincerely don't believe this particular brand under the tutelage of Textron is in a position to rapidly shift positions in a timely, profitable and effective manner.  look at their dirt and snow products, no significant change or innovation while their competition keeps raising the bar.   case in point irl2 automotive, GM built the EV1 96-99 and abandoned it, then made several other vein attempts with EV's and hybrids that the market rejected, now the Bolt (battery) is a big debacle, the Hummer is a $ boondoggle and their pipeline isn't on par with their closest Big3 competitor (Ford) which already has 150K pre-orders for the F150 Lightning, already has the MustangE and more in the pipe.

sadly, I don't see this ending well and I sincerely want to be wrong.   

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12 hours ago, CFM said:

Kinda’. You’ve actually been schitting on POO for doing a good job of it. Lol

I have, but it's because those sleds suck balls and can't back up the marketing and then I "lash out" against the lemmings..  but yes they do have a great marketing department though, no doubt.  But it doesn't make the machines any better.  I'm sorry if this offended any one.

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4 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

I eye rolled bigly over that one...

you should

change is coming, and I sincerely don't believe this particular brand under the tutelage of Textron is in a position to rapidly shift positions in a timely, profitable and effective manner.  look at their dirt and snow products, no significant change or innovation while their competition keeps raising the bar.   case in point irl2 automotive, GM built the EV1 96-99 and abandoned it, then made several other vein attempts with EV's and hybrids that the market rejected, now the Bolt (battery) is a big debacle, the Hummer is a $ boondoggle and their pipeline isn't on par with their closest Big3 competitor (Ford) which already has 150K pre-orders for the F150 Lightning, already has the MustangE and more in the pipe.

sadly, I don't see this ending well and I sincerely want to be wrong.   

Dude you should at least know what you're talking about in your bashings.

Whether you personally like these models or not is irrelevant.  You stated "no significant change" to dirt or snow...

2019 alpha one.  Giant change with an all new concept to the market.  Very well received too btw, lots of buzz.

2020, all new front end design for trail sleds.

2020, riot.  New model line for cat.

2021 BLAST.  A completely new model, creating a while new segment/niche in the sport.

2022, all new 600 ATV from the ground up.

Maybe these aren't the "significant changes" that you, a person that isn't buying any new machines, is looking for.  But you can't say these are not significant changes.

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6 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

I eye rolled bigly over that one...

you should

change is coming, and I sincerely don't believe this particular brand under the tutelage of Textron is in a position to rapidly shift positions in a timely, profitable and effective manner.  look at their dirt and snow products, no significant change or innovation while their competition keeps raising the bar.   case in point irl2 automotive, GM built the EV1 96-99 and abandoned it, then made several other vein attempts with EV's and hybrids that the market rejected, now the Bolt (battery) is a big debacle, the Hummer is a $ boondoggle and their pipeline isn't on par with their closest Big3 competitor (Ford) which already has 150K pre-orders for the F150 Lightning, already has the MustangE and more in the pipe.

sadly, I don't see this ending well and I sincerely want to be wrong.   

Glad you’re investing your money in Ford. They are literally the closest manu to a shitty tipping point but all of the commercials you see and hear would let you know otherwise. A wrong move or two for Ford and they are in serious deep shit. GM is further from being an automotive manufacturer than they ever have been. Interesting times for sure. 

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3 hours ago, mnstang said:

Dude you should at least know what you're talking about in your bashings.

Whether you personally like these models or not is irrelevant.  You stated "no significant change" to dirt or snow...

2019 alpha one.  Giant change with an all new concept to the market.  Very well received too btw, lots of buzz.

2020, all new front end design for trail sleds.

2020, riot.  New model line for cat.

2021 BLAST.  A completely new model, creating a while new segment/niche in the sport.

2022, all new 600 ATV from the ground up.

Maybe these aren't the "significant changes" that you, a person that isn't buying any new machines, is looking for.  But you can't say these are not significant changes.

Ok, will agree on a few of those points.   How many of those were already planned and in the pipeline before Textron 'saved' Cat?  How many of the engineers that came up with those concepts are still there?   How thick are your rose colored goggles?  

 

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5 hours ago, SayatodaU.P.eh? said:

Glad you’re investing your money in Ford. They are literally the closest manu to a shitty tipping point but all of the commercials you see and hear would let you know otherwise. A wrong move or two for Ford and they are in serious deep shit. GM is further from being an automotive manufacturer than they ever have been. Interesting times for sure. 

100%

 

Ford cant release anything right now.. and have been fucking up releases since 2019 starting with the new explorer.  New F150 issues with the windshields, bronco issues the tops... mach E had some sort of mass recall really early in production but I forget what it was for.

how ever if it was some one like tesla.. they would most likely ignore it. 

 

They are on a thin line.. however might be a good time to buy in it is going up... if they can actually deliver vehicles. Although not my taste but the new maverick will be a hit. They have something for everyone right now, just cant deliver it.

The whole battery thing should fall squarely on LG for those bolts.  I'm surprised GM is taking it on the chin for them. 

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3 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

Ok, will agree on a few of those points.   How many of those were already planned and in the pipeline before Textron 'saved' Cat?  How many of the engineers that came up with those concepts are still there?   How thick are your rose colored goggles?  

 

See, now you're just shifting the goal posts from what you just said and what the conversation was about.  And getting into more of an emotional argument too btw, one that cannot be proven anyway and is just used as talking points by hater types like yourself.  Very convenient.  They all happened well after the 2017 Textron buy out.  And for the sake of this argument, if you really think it takes 5 years for these things to hit the market, which is what you're trying to infer, Textron is now in year one by that logic so how have I been hearing about boogeyman Textron from you for years now?

You really like to play both sides in your bashings.  You've bashed the ctec 800 plenty from your internet chair.. but by your logic that is old cat, from your chosen engineers.  Hmm?  It's fascinating how much someone can dog a product, and then simultaneously dog the company when they replace the engineers of said product.  But I'm the one with the glasses..

A couple added things since this isn't going to go anywhere anyway.. if you loved "pre Textron Arctic Cat" so much.. A.) why did they need to get bought out and B.) Why weren't you doing more to support the brand that you loved so much?  

Not that I need to defend this but I figure I'll save some time in future by correcting more of your failed arguments.  Yes, I am a giant cat fan.  That doesn't mean I like every cat made or think every cat is the best thing ever or that I like everything I see from TRF.. that would be retarded.  I'm just a fan.  I like the history.  And none of that matters because this argument was not about me it was about setting the record straight with your fake news bashing attempts.  Surely if cat is so bad, you can come up with legitimate grievances based on actual things that happen and not based on a made up narrative.  But I still don't see why you'd focus on what you don't like when you can focus on whatever you do like- that's just me.  I look forward to seeing you get better.

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3 minutes ago, Bontz said:

I know you already realize this @mnstang, but just gonna say it before you invest any more time in responding to @Crnr2Crnr.  He's just trolling and satisfying his "look at me!" needs, like he's always done :news:

He only enjoys it when Polaris is getting a case of the red ass. 

:lol:

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1 hour ago, mnstang said:

See, now you're just shifting the goal posts from what you just said and what the conversation was about.  And getting into more of an emotional argument too btw, one that cannot be proven anyway and is just used as talking points by hater types like yourself.  Very convenient.  They all happened well after the 2017 Textron buy out.  And for the sake of this argument, if you really think it takes 5 years for these things to hit the market, which is what you're trying to infer, Textron is now in year one by that logic so how have I been hearing about boogeyman Textron from you for years now?

You really like to play both sides in your bashings.  You've bashed the ctec 800 plenty from your internet chair.. but by your logic that is old cat, from your chosen engineers.  Hmm?  It's fascinating how much someone can dog a product, and then simultaneously dog the company when they replace the engineers of said product.  But I'm the one with the glasses..

A couple added things since this isn't going to go anywhere anyway.. if you loved "pre Textron Arctic Cat" so much.. A.) why did they need to get bought out and B.) Why weren't you doing more to support the brand that you loved so much?  

Not that I need to defend this but I figure I'll save some time in future by correcting more of your failed arguments.  Yes, I am a giant cat fan.  That doesn't mean I like every cat made or think every cat is the best thing ever or that I like everything I see from TRF.. that would be retarded.  I'm just a fan.  I like the history.  And none of that matters because this argument was not about me it was about setting the record straight with your fake news bashing attempts.  Surely if cat is so bad, you can come up with legitimate grievances based on actual things that happen and not based on a made up narrative.  But I still don't see why you'd focus on what you don't like when you can focus on whatever you do like- that's just me.  I look forward to seeing you get better.

Calm down Ramstad Jr.

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4 hours ago, Cwhite138 said:

100%

 

Ford cant release anything right now.. and have been fucking up releases since 2019 starting with the new explorer.  New F150 issues with the windshields, bronco issues the tops... mach E had some sort of mass recall really early in production but I forget what it was for.

how ever if it was some one like tesla.. they would most likely ignore it. 

 

They are on a thin line.. however might be a good time to buy in it is going up... if they can actually deliver vehicles. Although not my taste but the new maverick will be a hit. They have something for everyone right now, just cant deliver it.

The whole battery thing should fall squarely on LG for those bolts.  I'm surprised GM is taking it on the chin for them. 

Think about what that really means. GM was always going to take the heat for that because ultimately, GM had quite the hand in R&D of that battery. The first gasoline powered ICEs weren’t without major problems either. A lot of people forget just how new this whole EV thing really is. 
 

Secondly, there is a lot going on behind the scenes with battery stuff at GM that once out may shed more light on why GM is just taking care of this instead of playing the blame game. 

3 hours ago, mnstang said:

See, now you're just shifting the goal posts from what you just said and what the conversation was about.  And getting into more of an emotional argument too btw, one that cannot be proven anyway and is just used as talking points by hater types like yourself.  Very convenient.  They all happened well after the 2017 Textron buy out.  And for the sake of this argument, if you really think it takes 5 years for these things to hit the market, which is what you're trying to infer, Textron is now in year one by that logic so how have I been hearing about boogeyman Textron from you for years now?

You really like to play both sides in your bashings.  You've bashed the ctec 800 plenty from your internet chair.. but by your logic that is old cat, from your chosen engineers.  Hmm?  It's fascinating how much someone can dog a product, and then simultaneously dog the company when they replace the engineers of said product.  But I'm the one with the glasses..

A couple added things since this isn't going to go anywhere anyway.. if you loved "pre Textron Arctic Cat" so much.. A.) why did they need to get bought out and B.) Why weren't you doing more to support the brand that you loved so much?  

Not that I need to defend this but I figure I'll save some time in future by correcting more of your failed arguments.  Yes, I am a giant cat fan.  That doesn't mean I like every cat made or think every cat is the best thing ever or that I like everything I see from TRF.. that would be retarded.  I'm just a fan.  I like the history.  And none of that matters because this argument was not about me it was about setting the record straight with your fake news bashing attempts.  Surely if cat is so bad, you can come up with legitimate grievances based on actual things that happen and not based on a made up narrative.  But I still don't see why you'd focus on what you don't like when you can focus on whatever you do like- that's just me.  I look forward to seeing you get better.

Bitch please. You wouldn’t piss on anything Cat if your life depended on. Did he pick on your poor Arctic Cat? Awww. FFS. :lol:

Edited by SayatodaU.P.eh?
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Hopefully things get worked out at Cat.  The best chance right now is for someone else to buy them out. As for GM, I'm in line for a Hummer EV.   5 tons of 4x4 zero to 60 in 3 seconds and I was in.

Edited by jdsky
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On 9/15/2021 at 7:57 PM, Zambroski said:

 Luckily on the sled side, there’s been enough tech/racers that have kept the brand alive.  I’m cautiously optimistic.  

Been enough being past tense is the problem.  Selling 15k machines a year will not have Textron seeing any reason for investment.  The only way I will become optimistic again is when Textron sells of the sled division.  Until then we get more of this stupid bitch and corporate miking of the current portfolio

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2 hours ago, Deephaven said:

Been enough being past tense is the problem.  Selling 15k machines a year will not have Textron seeing any reason for investment.  The only way I will become optimistic again is when Textron sells of the sled division.  Until then we get more of this stupid bitch and corporate miking of the current portfolio

I’ve never cared about total sales.  Ever.  I’ve said for years, long before I was a “Cat guy” that AC should focus on the small race segment.  But, this ain’t it.  I see Textron slowly killing it.  Best hope is to sell off to a group of race minded investors.

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On 9/15/2021 at 8:52 AM, Bontz said:

I gave it 6 minutes, and had to turn it off.  Thankfully she isn't the one who's designing and building sleds, but good God - learn your product and stop reading from an iPad!!  If she's the one who ultimately approves projects and funding, I'm sorry guys ... the future looks pretty bleak for Team Arctic.  Hopefully she's just another corporate merry-go-round type, and will be moving on soon & they can find someone who's actually passionate about the Cat brand.  She clearly ISN'T!!!

At least Scott wine wrecked every prototype poo put for him to test till he moved on last yr . He knew how to test a toy lol .

I dont think speetzen will be as hard on the equipment 

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2 hours ago, Zambroski said:

I’ve never cared about total sales.  Ever.  I’ve said for years, long before I was a “Cat guy” that AC should focus on the small race segment.  But, this ain’t it.  I see Textron slowly killing it.  Best hope is to sell off to a group of race minded investors.

I think that would light a fire under every creative mind at AC.  There’s nothing quite like everyone knowing that their efforts make a difference when there’s a collective need to survive.

Someone said, probably sarcastically, that Argo should buy them.  But if Argo has the money, that might be the best thing that could happen.  I’m sorry for being too lazy to find that comment and give credit where it’s due.

 

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1 hour ago, p51mstg said:

I think that would light a fire under every creative mind at AC.  There’s nothing quite like everyone knowing that their efforts make a difference when there’s a collective need to survive.

Someone said, probably sarcastically, that Argo should buy them.  But if Argo has the money, that might be the best thing that could happen.  I’m sorry for being too lazy to find that comment and give credit where it’s due.

 

I honestly don’t think anybody wants to be in the snow side of the business.  The rise in prices shows that.  Sure, they’ll make them….at that price point.

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4 hours ago, Zambroski said:

I’ve never cared about total sales.  Ever.  I’ve said for years, long before I was a “Cat guy” that AC should focus on the small race segment.  But, this ain’t it.  I see Textron slowly killing it.  Best hope is to sell off to a group of race minded investors.

Wasn't my point.  Textron cares about money so the dwindling fans of the brand is a bad sign.  

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2 hours ago, p51mstg said:

I think that would light a fire under every creative mind at AC.  There’s nothing quite like everyone knowing that their efforts make a difference when there’s a collective need to survive.

Someone said, probably sarcastically, that Argo should buy them.  But if Argo has the money, that might be the best thing that could happen.  I’m sorry for being too lazy to find that comment and give credit where it’s due.

 

Argo has more than enough money to buy cat from Textron. They are huge areo space company. The Argo 6 wheel vehicles most know them for is a small drop in there business. 

Edited by Not greg b
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