He’s right.

[mnstang]

1 minute ago, Matt said:

Plan isn't to stop the Taliban taking over.  Plan is to ensure Americans and our Afghan allies who were counting on our protection get out.  Think we've gotten out like 2k of 80k or something ridiculous like that.

I've already said this.  Maybe it could have gone better.  Or maybe not.  But it's a better job than the previous 3 administrations have done.  2500 troops is not out.  It's not even close to out, and he had four years to do it.  And I loved Trump but he failed at doing that.  Glad someone did I don't care what side of the aisle they are on.

[Matt]

7 minutes ago, mnstang said:

I've already said this.  Maybe it could have gone better.  Or maybe not.  But it's a better job than the previous 3 administrations have done.  2500 troops is not out.  It's not even close to out, and he had four years to do it.  And I loved Trump but he failed at doing that.  Glad someone did I don't care what side of the aisle they are on.

It could definitely have gone better with some decent planning and strategy.

However.  If 2500 troops as a security force was keeping the whole damn country from collapsing, maybe staying wasn't the worst idea ever.  We have more than 10x that in Japan, Korea, Qatar, Germany...

Edited August 19, 2021 by Matt

[mnstang]

3 minutes ago, Matt said:

It could definitely have gone better with some decent planning and strategy.

However.  If 2500 troops as a security force was keeping the whole damn country from collapsing, maybe staying wasn't the worst idea ever.  We have more than 10x that in Japan, Korea, Qatar, Germany...

I don't give a fuck about the country collapsing.  You don't use good money to chase bad money you're just digging the hole deeper.  It's 2500 soldiers, probably more contractors and such, and untold American taxpayer dollars going to a shit hole.  I don't agree with playing world police in all those other countries either.  It sounds like you're good with occupying, we disagree there.  

[1jkw]

26 minutes ago, Matt said:

It could definitely have gone better with some decent planning and strategy.

However.  If 2500 troops as a security force was keeping the whole damn country from collapsing, maybe staying wasn't the worst idea ever.  We have more than 10x that in Japan, Korea, Qatar, Germany...

I think you are leaving out the presence of private contractors, and military equipment that was   removed, and the original date of the agreement had the US leaving in May.  

And forgot to mention 300,000 Afghan military.

Edited August 19, 2021 by 1jkw

[Doomxz600]

UK just petitioned the world court to hold Biden in contempt. Other countries are going in with rifle units to get their people. The US is not, wondering if those folks will vote democrat if they ever get the chance again.

[mnstang]

Jimmy Dore always has good anti war points.

https://youtu.be/dhi8Gk45r6Q

[steve from amherst]

13 hours ago, 1jkw said:

I think you are leaving out the presence of private contractors, and military equipment that was   removed, and the original date of the agreement had the US leaving in May.  

And forgot to mention 300,000 Afghan military.

The 300,000 never existed. Pentagon knew that. They also knew the real number was 50,000 The af gvmt said 300,000 because that is what we were paying them for. They stole the payroll of 1/4 million that didnt exist.

[1jkw]

57 minutes ago, steve from amherst said:

The 300,000 never existed. Pentagon knew that. They also knew the real number was 50,000 The af gvmt said 300,000 because that is what we were paying them for. They stole the payroll of 1/4 million that didnt exist.

So even" if "what you say is true 50,000 is twice as many as the Taliban had, not to mention the Afghans. weren't in Toyota pickups and on motorcycles, they just lacked the will to fight.

[Zambroski]

1 hour ago, steve from amherst said:

The 300,000 never existed. Pentagon knew that. They also knew the real number was 50,000 The af gvmt said 300,000 because that is what we were paying them for. They stole the payroll of 1/4 million that didnt exist.

Yep.

4 minutes ago, 1jkw said:

So even" if "what you say is true 50,000 is twice as many as the Taliban had, not to mention the Afghans. weren't in Toyota pickups and on motorcycles, they just lacked the will to fight.

Yep.  But, the 50,000 is still a joke.  Kinda like the Iraq army was “One million strong”.

Id bet there weren’t more than a few thousand Afghan soldiers ready and pseudo willing to fight.  Easy for them to just walk away when they saw the rest of their countrymen just lay down.

[1jkw]

23 minutes ago, Zambroski said:

Yep.

Yep.  But, the 50,000 is still a joke.  Kinda like the Iraq army was “One million strong”.

Id bet there weren’t more than a few thousand Afghan soldiers ready and pseudo willing to fight.  Easy for them to just walk away when they saw the rest of their countrymen just lay down.

Lots of guys with uniforms, very few soldiers.  

Guy a few miles from my house did 4 tours in Afg. last 1 was 2015 or 2016, he said we'll never be able to leave back then, he said if we do they'll go right back to the way they were, he was 100% right.

[Zambroski]

1 minute ago, 1jkw said:

Lots of guys with uniforms, very few soldiers.  

Guy a few miles from my house did 4 tours in Afg. last 1 was 2015 or 2016, he said we'll never be able to leave back then, he said if we do they'll go right back to the way they were, he was 100% right.

They all do.  They have no interest in our values and ways.  The ones that state otherwise just want our money and assistance for their own means but actual change in a Muslim country?  No.

[SayatodaU.P.eh?]

On 8/17/2021 at 6:18 PM, Skidooski said:

It's almost too bad this wasn't Trumps big fuck up instead of Biden's. There would've been Dems stroking out left and right

We would have already been seeing impeachment hearings in the news. Plain and simple. I hate that he keeps being brought up but like the guy or not, this is the truth. 

16 hours ago, mnstang said:

I've already said this.  Maybe it could have gone better.  Or maybe not.  But it's a better job than the previous 3 administrations have done.  2500 troops is not out.  It's not even close to out, and he had four years to do it.  And I loved Trump but he failed at doing that.  Glad someone did I don't care what side of the aisle they are on.

I personally think we should have stayed the course until the objective was over (Bin Ladins death) and then exited stage left immediately. Leave them bleeding from the throat and wonder why they even bothered to fuck with us. Unfortunately, our country has a long history in that shit hole and it may never be over. 

1 hour ago, 1jkw said:

So even" if "what you say is true 50,000 is twice as many as the Taliban had, not to mention the Afghans. weren't in Toyota pickups and on motorcycles, they just lacked the will to fight.

The people of that country are not like most. There seems to be very little love of country. It is all just religious tribal groups that take care of their own and fuck whatever else is going on. There is no way to westernize a country like that. Most of the talk coming from that country, requesting help and money from us, was just to keep our money flowing to them. Bad part is, we had a lot of allies helping us over there. They are extremely pissed at how we just handled this. I’m still on the fence whether what we just did was right or wrong but it seems more and more that it was wrong to me. I certainly don’t like how much egg it puts on this countries face but these days there are less people that think like me so whatever. 

[1jkw]

2 hours ago, Zambroski said:

They all do.  They have no interest in our values and ways.  The ones that state otherwise just want our money and assistance for their own means but actual change in a Muslim country?  No.

I'm getting old, it was 2010 or 11 when he left, they like their religion too much to see any other way.

[1jkw]

1 hour ago, SayatodaU.P.eh? said:

We would have already been seeing impeachment hearings in the news. Plain and simple. I hate that he keeps being brought up but like the guy or not, this is the truth. 

I personally think we should have stayed the course until the objective was over (Bin Ladins death) and then exited stage left immediately. Leave them bleeding from the throat and wonder why they even bothered to fuck with us. Unfortunately, our country has a long history in that shit hole and it may never be over. 

The people of that country are not like most. There seems to be very little love of country. It is all just religious tribal groups that take care of their own and fuck whatever else is going on. There is no way to westernize a country like that. Most of the talk coming from that country, requesting help and money from us, was just to keep our money flowing to them. Bad part is, we had a lot of allies helping us over there. They are extremely pissed at how we just handled this. I’m still on the fence whether what we just did was right or wrong but it seems more and more that it was wrong to me. I certainly don’t like how much egg it puts on this countries face but these days there are less people that think like me so whatever. 

I'm not sure how pissed they really are, they had plenty of time to leave, the original time was May. They are probably just as happy to be out of there as we are.  Boris Johnson said the US had 90% of the troops there, so if they couldn't get that small number of people out, that's on them.

[ActionfigureJoe]

3 hours ago, SayatodaU.P.eh? said:

We would have already been seeing impeachment hearings in the news. Plain and simple. I hate that he keeps being brought up but like the guy or not, this is the truth. 

I personally think we should have stayed the course until the objective was over (Bin Ladins death) and then exited stage left immediately. Leave them bleeding from the throat and wonder why they even bothered to fuck with us. Unfortunately, our country has a long history in that shit hole and it may never be over. 

The people of that country are not like most. There seems to be very little love of country. It is all just religious tribal groups that take care of their own and fuck whatever else is going on. There is no way to westernize a country like that. Most of the talk coming from that country, requesting help and money from us, was just to keep our money flowing to them. Bad part is, we had a lot of allies helping us over there. They are extremely pissed at how we just handled this. I’m still on the fence whether what we just did was right or wrong but it seems more and more that it was wrong to me. I certainly don’t like how much egg it puts on this countries face but these days there are less people that think like me so whatever. 

America is quickly moving away from a centralized form of government into a form of neo-tribalism. Difference being that the people in the tribal regions of Afghanistan are more resourceful than Americans. We’ll eventually be eating our own. They’ll simply go on as they have for 1000’s of years. 

Edited August 20, 2021 by ActionfigureJoe