So what put Arctic Cat in their current position?

[Doug]

When Arctic Cat snowmobiles came back into the sport in 1984 they seemed to work their way to a level to stand on their own.  Seems rather shaky right now.  Was it leadership, lose of what the market wanted, lack of new product development or other issues?

[Zambroski]

1.) Decades of poor leadership unable to see the need to diversify when others clearly saw it being necessary.

2.) A board of directors that is, and was, just plain clearly unable to hire the right leaders.  This ineptness is on a level that is just astounding.

3.) Textron clearly not doing what they said they were going to do.

[SayatodaU.P.eh?]

Cat had the best sled in the mountain game, just when that segment started to take off. The XF was even a really good crossover sled. Then, they just went stagnant. Not sure why though. 

[Not greg b]

The year for the 2015 model year (spring 2014) is what put the nail in the coffin for cat. The sport had come off their best year in decades. Cat leadership up the booking orders to double of the previous year to be on the program. 2015 was a low snow winter so most dealers had more carry over sleds than they typically sell in a year. By the 2016 model year the dealers had 3 years of inventory on their lots and a lot of their credit lines were maxed out with cat. With maxed out credit lines and way to much inventory cat could not ship anything to the dealers and get money coming in. This caused them to start burning through their cash reserves real fast. Textron bought them out when they were danger close to running out of money. You could see this in their stock price history. 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Not greg b

[Zambroski]

1 hour ago, Not greg b said:

The year for the 2015 model year (spring 2014) is what put the nail in the coffin for cat. The sport had come off their best year in decades. Cat leadership up the booking orders to double of the previous year to be on the program. 2015 was a low snow winter so most dealers had more carry over sleds than they typically sell in a year. By the 2016 model year the dealers had 3 years of inventory on their lots and a lot of their credit lines were maxed out with cat. With maxed out credit lines and way to much inventory cat could not ship anything to the dealers and get money coming in. This caused them to start burning through their cash reserves real fast. Textron bought them out when they were danger close to running out of money. You could see this in their stock price history. 

Good write up.  This is a lesson learned by others that depend on Mother Nature for sales:  Stop producing and forcing your network to take inventory they don't need in order to meet production goals set forth by inept management.

[Not greg b]

3 hours ago, Zambroski said:

Good write up.  This is a lesson learned by others that depend on Mother Nature for sales:  Stop producing and forcing your network to take inventory they don't need in order to meet production goals set forth by inept management.

Shortly after that was when Jordan was sent away and that other guy was brought in to save the company Which he did. How ever the damn devil bought it and they are doing their typical Textron thing. 

[fortune46x]

a board of directors that continually gave bonuses to ceos who had no idea what they were doing and textron having a marketing team that have no clue what the consumers want... Ben White is a fucking idiot. 

[Ziemann]

It goes back much further than that. With the F7, Cat was the brand that everyone was chasing. Cat was set up for success and completely blew it.  @Not greg b is correct in how Cat destroyed their dealer network and burned all of their cash. I bought 2 new '17's at 0% financing for 60 months back when Cat had such a sled glut. It's pretty tough to make money when you're giving away free money and discounting sleds $3K-$5K. 

THEN, there were some really poor product offerings. Barney sleds didn't help. It rode great, but didn't have much of a performance image. '12 Procross belt blowers didn't help. The '12 Turbos really left a scar. Parts availability hasn't help. Tucker retiring killed Cat's performance/racing image. Marketing seems completely out of touch with what the core midwestern ZR/ performance market wants. 

NOW, it's Cat's 60th Anniversary, and there's little to celebrate. No new chassis. No special edition. WTF. 

It is NOT a mystery how Cat got to where they are. One screw up after another has led them down this dark path. 

 

 

[Premium]

The twin spar was a real WTF moment that alienated a lot of Cat riders.  On the heels of the lightest, fastest, and sexiest sleds on snow, the Firecat, they did a complete 180 and made the heaviest, slowest, and ugliest units out there (yes, I know they were comfy).  Guys began jumping ship to the far lighter and better looking XPs and IQs of the time. An agonizing 4 years later we got the Procross, a unit that ironically was released far too early and way too cheap.  It wasn't until the 14s hit the snow that it was finally the great sled it should always have been. 

I can't help but think how different things would be if Cat had managed to release a finished Procross (2014+) back in 2007 and skipped the twin spar entirely *sigh*

[Not greg b]

Cat’s snow offering was never really an issue. They were running consistent sales and the units were moving. Even the twin spar sold and the early procross issues didn’t really effect their sales. That inventory stunt they pulled is what killed the procross.

the dirt product offerings were shit as the atv market was exploding and they did nothing. They are doing the exact same thing with sleds now as they did with dirt line. Selling an outdated widget no one wants.

[mnstang]

The twin spar was great but it shouldn't have been their only offering for flatlanders.  They should have had that and something else at the same time.  (Not the cfr/recycled firecat) And then the procross debacle sealed the deal.  They spent the first 5 years trying to fix the procross instead of r&d'ing the next chassis.  Once you get behind it's hard to catch up, no less leap frog.  And the money resources get slimmer so that makes things more of a challenge and it's a real snowball effect.  They had some real shitty ceo's that were raping the company during this time also.

[Not greg b]

1 hour ago, mnstang said:

The twin spar was great but it shouldn't have been their only offering for flatlanders.  They should have had that and something else at the same time.  (Not the cfr/recycled firecat) And then the procross debacle sealed the deal.  They spent the first 5 years trying to fix the procross instead of r&d'ing the next chassis.  Once you get behind it's hard to catch up, no less leap frog.  And the money resources get slimmer so that makes things more of a challenge and it's a real snowball effect.  They had some real shitty ceo's that were raping the company during this time also.

They should have offered the sno pro with the consumer 600efi in it. They would have sold a lot of them. And we all know it would have fit very easily. 

[mnstang]

1 hour ago, Not greg b said:

They should have offered the sno pro with the consumer 600efi in it. They would have sold a lot of them. And we all know it would have fit very easily. 

That would have been a home run.  The 85hp 500 deterred almost every one at the time, including myself.

[racinfarmer]

Remember in the 2000's when they tried to force 40-50-60 sleds out to all dealers, and a large PG&A order to top it off?

Good times...

Edited June 2, 2021 by racinfarmer

[Crnr2Crnr]

3 hours ago, Not greg b said:

They should have offered the sno pro with the consumer 600efi in it. They would have sold a lot of them. And we all know it would have fit very easily. 

and more so, the 800 Zuke

imo, Greg knows a lot and nailed it, and total complacency from inept management who not only let the competition eat their lunch in the retail landscape, they got beat up and had their milk money taken.  then Hosanna arrived in a Textron leisure suit, and has been milking the teets until the udder runs dry.  that's how the game gets played, they have no interest or loyalty to the consumer or the brand, to them it's like buying a truckload of grapefruit for $250 and selling as many as possible for $5 each until they run out, then they sell the truck and trailer and it's game over and they walk away and you've got a $5 grapefruit.

let's look at the past few months... Cat's 60th anniversary = nothing burger and a Garmin GPS while Poo & Doo launch new shit once again.  Brian Dick, a racer, engineer and someone who understands the industry, it's products, consumers, place in the market is walked out the door. Then they hire a person from Atlanta who has ZERO experience in the snowmobile industry to steer the ship and make it more lean, mean and green.

for those who can't see the writing on the wall. get some fucking glasses that aren't all green.     

 

[Crnr2Crnr]

add

 

in a nutshell, I can't ever recall a time where the Cat faithful have ever been so negative about their brand - it's not just a few of us here, it's on HCS, FB and even ArcticInsider - the most positive pro-Cat platform ever.  when John Sandberg walked away, that should have been the biggest tell of them all.

 

http://www.arcticinsider.com/Article/Gone-Exploring-A-Brief-Story-About-Me

Edited June 2, 2021 by Crnr2Crnr

[fortune46x]

9 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

add

 

in a nutshell, I can't ever recall a time where the Cat faithful have ever been so negative about their brand - it's not just a few of us here, it's on HCS, FB and even ArcticInsider - the most positive pro-Cat platform ever.  when John Sandberg walked away, that should have been the biggest tell of them all.

 

http://www.arcticinsider.com/Article/Gone-Exploring-A-Brief-Story-About-Me

Except Kale taking over the site with his connections is a huge step too. John got burnt out on it I think trying to put a positive spin on things. Kale was a supercheese at marketing at cat and when they forced him to choose betweeen TRF and Augusta he chose unemployment. 

[Doug]

As far as dealers a friend bleeds green and also has a business working relationship with his sled dealer.  It was the dealer that told him not to buy a new Thundercat last year because he was not sure how long they're going to be around so he bought a new Doo.  This year his wife's sled is also a new Doo on order.

[favoritos]

Feeding the short shareholder value dug this hole.  It's all about the money. 

It's a sucky deal, but it is how things are done way too often.  Number crunchers can eat up and destroy a brand pretty quickly while they feed the stockholders.

[mnstang]

11 hours ago, Crnr2Crnr said:

add

 

in a nutshell, I can't ever recall a time where the Cat faithful have ever been so negative about their brand - it's not just a few of us here, it's on HCS, FB and even ArcticInsider - the most positive pro-Cat platform ever.  when John Sandberg walked away, that should have been the biggest tell of them all.

 

http://www.arcticinsider.com/Article/Gone-Exploring-A-Brief-Story-About-Me

I like cat for what they were back in the day when I got sold on them.  Doesn't mean I have to like the current company/sleds.  To expect anything to stay the same is foolish.  Nothing lasts forever.  Get over it and move on.  Or don't and be forever another angry person on the internet, boy that's a rare breed..

[Deephaven]

Not getting upset over not having real choices is an odd message.  I want all brands to step up and improve things.  He has moved on...but doesn't want to.  

[Doug]

1 hour ago, Deephaven said:

Not getting upset over not having real choices is an odd message.  I want all brands to step up and improve things.  He has moved on...but doesn't want to.  

There lies the problem.  I'd like to see Arctic Cat make it and bring new products and ideas to the sport.  Would also like Yamaha to come out with their own chassis and up grades in the motor department.  Competition is good and if we only end up with 2 players that's not good for the sport.

[mnstang]

3 hours ago, Deephaven said:

Not getting upset over not having real choices is an odd message.  I want all brands to step up and improve things.  He has moved on...but doesn't want to.  

There's tons of choices in the new snowmobile market.  He ain't buying any of them either.

[Deephaven]

3 hours ago, mnstang said:

There's tons of choices in the new snowmobile market.  He ain't buying any of them either.

None from Cat.

New sleds today make used sleds tomorrow. 

 

[racinfarmer]

13 hours ago, fortune46x said:

Except Kale taking over the site with his connections is a huge step too. John got burnt out on it I think trying to put a positive spin on things. Kale was a supercheese at marketing at cat and when they forced him to choose betweeen TRF and Augusta he chose unemployment. 

I think the chance to move over to the bike world helped quicken the burn-out.  Cal wasn't racing anymore either.  Wish I'd catch up with him more then once a year or every other year.

11 hours ago, favoritos said:

Feeding the short shareholder value dug this hole.  It's all about the money. 

It's a sucky deal, but it is how things are done way too often.  Number crunchers can eat up and destroy a brand pretty quickly while they feed the stockholders.

The number crunchers in the procurement group really did a number on them too.  We'll save $100 on the cost to manufacture a sled or quad, yet eat $500 in warranty costs when shit is failing, or more if you are a 2012-2013.

How many idler wheels did one replace on the last of the ZR's or the Firecats?  Compare that to a 2010 or 2011 or 2012.

Must have hired people from my employer.

Edited June 3, 2021 by racinfarmer